Persian, Urdu, English or Arabic language in Pakistan?

[S.A.T.A]

The problem that Pakistan's 'nationalists' face is more profound than just any identity crisis.Pakistan's problem is a crisis of multiple identities.There is a religious identity and then there is the socio-cultural identity.The question that rankles Pakistanis is which identity would or should be at the core of its identity.

This is true in case of countries which had a very strong and deep rooted socio-cultural tradition that is more deeply ingrained than a religious identity of recent import(relatively speaking for a regions with a history of 10000 years)

The socio-cultural identity represented by the language,rites,archaic communal traditions,clan and tribal identities are all Indic.The religious identity represented by the faith and traditions associated to the majority faith,is essentially non Indic,with socio-cultural traditions that are rooted in a Semitic-Arabic environment.

Which identity has a stronger draw in the long run.All talk about "Pakistani History" and "Arabic" as national language is part of this debate.

Many among us probably already know the outcome.

 

[Vinod2070]

Which identity has a stronger draw in the long run.All talk about "Pakistani History" and "Arabic" as national language is part of this debate.

Many among us probably already know the outcome.

Yes, if history is any guide.

 

[musalman]

Jamaat is not ultra-nationalist, it is religious-fundamentalist. The distinction is subtle, especially so in Pakistan, but recognizable all the same.

then whom r u refering to

 

[Fighter]

Why would an alien language be more acceptable rather than a language that is widely spoken within Pakistan?

Why does no other non-Arabic Muslim nation feel the need to use Arabic as their language, only Pakistanis?

It would absolutely not be acceptable.

 

[Fighter]

I am getting tired of all this id crisis talk.

 

[johnee]

Well, you personally might not like them, but I am quite convinced that the vast majority of Pakistanis consider the mughal era as their "golden age".



I wouldn't know how many people in Pakistan want Delhi back, I have not conducted any poll, but I have had enough exposure to ultra-nationalist Pakistanis to know that those who are deeply nationalistic, often dream of that.

I recently read some speech of Hafeez Sayeed in newspaper. To summarise him, his organisation's ultimate aim is: Green flag on red fort. Kashmir is only a stepping stone.

 

[Vinod2070]

Fighter Watch this.

YouTube - Conversations With History - Tariq Ali

 

[xkasx]

What you are effectively saying is that you need to invent a common language/identity for yourself as you have none.

I have south Indians in my uni and they don't understand Hindi/Urdu properly .. but they understand English. now English is India's common language according to your theory.. so is English your identity as well?

I Don't think common language has anything to do with identity.

And Urdu is our national language because most of the people in Pakistan understand it.

 

[Vinod2070]

I have south Indians in my uni and they don't understand Hindi/Urdu properly .. but they understand English. now English is India's common language according to your theory.. so is English your identity as well?

First of all welcome to the forum and do introduce yourself in the intro section.

English does serve as a common language in India to some extent but for the vast majority of Indians it is Hindi that serves as the link language.

I Don't think common language has anything to do with identity.

Yes, but here the suggestion for common language by the writer was to get a new identity for people and move away from India. He is terrified that all Pakistanis may be able to communicate with all Indians and that would lead to the loss of Pakistani identity as per him.

And Urdu is our national language because most of the people in Pakistan understand it.

It is the reverse. Most people in Pakistan understand it because it was made the national language in 1947.

 

[Fighter]

Vinod
I have watched the first 15 minutes of it.
He is just telling the history.

There is no id crisis in pakistan.
And the problems in pakistan has nothing to do with id crisis

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod
I have watched the first 15 minutes of it.
He is just telling the history.

Well, he does talk about how Pakistan never developed a national outlook while India got over that quite early. He talks much more than history IIRC. I saw it some time back.

There is no id crisis in pakistan.
And the problems in pakistan has nothing to do with id crisis

The Id crisis is not something that is easily perceptible but it does have its effects. In Pakistan's case many eminent Pakistani writers acknowledge that Pakistan has that crisis. It has never been able to decide what it stands for, is it the "numainda" (representative) of the foreign invaders to India, is it the crucible of Islam in the subcontinent, is it the inheritor of IVC legacy or is it just "not India"?

This lack of clarity results in many "unique" situations. You are the most "pan Islamic" country in the world because you need Islam as an identity more than the others.

 

[peacecracker]

Islam as a Identity ,can Only work ,if you have to erase your ancient history for arabization as well as arabic language.this is what happens to the islamist countries worldwide.even south east asian muslim countries too are on this path.this trend will fade only when saudi arabia's funding power(aka Petro dollars) comes down.

 

[Fighter]

Well, he does talk about how Pakistan never developed a national outlook while India got over that quite early. He talks much more than history IIRC. I saw it some time back.

There are other reasons for that.
Lack of leadership being the main reason.

The Id crisis is not something that is easily perceptible but it does have its effects. In Pakistan's case many eminent Pakistani writers acknowledge that Pakistan has that crisis. It has never been able to decide what it stands for, is it the "numainda" (representative) of the foreign invaders to India, is it the crucible of Islam in the subcontinent, is it the inheritor of IVC legacy or is it just "not India"?

You can say that pakistan is unstable but it doesnt have id crisis.
The reason i brought it up because you guys talk alot about it.

 

[musalman]

LOL Okay so we do not like our language. Okay we do not like our culture and want to be wannabe Arabs LOL aab khoosh. Point is why are you people bothered even if we associate our self with aliens Same Identity crisis also effect you when North Indians call them self Aryans and associate themself with a culture which actually destroyed the original harrapan culture of India

 

[Rage]

LOL Okay so we do not like our language. Okay we do not like our culture and want to be wannabe Arabs LOL aab khoosh. Point is why are you people bothered even if we associate our self with aliens Same Identity crisis also effect you when North Indians call them self Aryans and associate themself with a culture which actually destroyed the original harrapan culture of India

That is a very contended point musalman. For more on the 'Aryan invasion' theory, please see:

Aryan Invasion Theory

Yes, North Indians, which comprise the majority of Indians [the state of UP alone has more than a fifth of our population] are inherently light-skinned, and share a mitochondrial deoxyribonucleic structure and physical attributes that resemble those of the Caucasoids and their persian progeniture. However, centuries of dwelling in the temperate, arid and warm North of the Indian subcontinent have given them a skin-tone and hue that is darker than those of their primogenitor.

Contrary to what the jingoistic, self-panegyrizing pakistanies would have you believe, the majority of Indians trace their lineage to Proto-Indo-Aryan roots [72% by CIA-Factbook Statistics], have a skin tone that vacillates between medium to light brown, and actually tend to an aggressive, primordial, almost-impetuous culture that is very evocative of the war-waging Aryan tribes. This can be seen in the villages of Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthaan, Haryaana, Gujaraat and so on- which is still where the vast majority of Indians live.

And in further addition to that point:

YouTube - ARYAN HINDU INDIA THE BIRTH OF CIVILIZATION DWARKA 10,000 YEAR OLD METROPOLIS FOUND PART 3 of 5

 

[Vinod2070]

LOL Okay so we do not like our language. Okay we do not like our culture and want to be wannabe Arabs LOL aab khoosh.

Its just a statement of facts. Nothing to make one happy.

Point is why are you people bothered even if we associate our self with aliens Same Identity crisis also effect you when North Indians call them self Aryans and associate themself with a culture which actually destroyed the original harrapan culture of India

These are mere conjectures, not proven history. All Indians consider India our motherland and holy land. We don't look outside to derive our identity.

 

[Singh]

Just to clear out Arya/Aryan in Indian context is used to denote some one who is noble by behaviour.

Rama, the hero of Ramayana was known for his dark complexion and was also known as an Arya and so were some "rakshashas".

 

[musalman]

Its just a statement of facts. Nothing to make one happy.



These are mere conjectures, not proven history. All Indians consider India our motherland and holy land. We don't look outside to derive our identity.

We also consider Pakistan our land

 

[F-14]

musalman shabb adab your land ??? pakistan has been your land ONLY for 60 years more or less but now what you call pakistan was part of India for eons so there is no way you can run away from your roots please do not try to and besides why do you need arabic ?

 

[musalman]

musalman shabb adab your land ??? pakistan has been your land ONLY for 60 years more or less but now what you call pakistan was part of India for eons so there is no way you can run away from your roots please do not try to and besides why do you need arabic ?

No sir it has always been my land. It cease to be yours since 1947 but it was my land before 1947 just like Delhi Bombay was my land before 1947 and it cease to be since 1947 :blum3: