Patriot, Nationalist or Fascist?

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Kshatriya87, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    This thread discusses the thin line between being patriot, nationalist and/or fascist. Who decides which is which? The media (Indian and Western) is freely labeling people, ministers, political parties whatever they like whilst forgetting that they themselves might be hindering a country's growth in a certain way.

    Is it so bad to be a nationalist? Or a fascist for that matter when the times call for it?

    Let me start with a couple of articles.
     
  2.  
  3. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Belgian riot police deploy water cannon against 'fascists' in Brussels square

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-in-Brussels-square/articleshow/51579203.cms

    Belgian riot police have deployed water cannon to the Place de la Bourse in Brussels in a bid to disperse a right-wing march that has disrupted a peaceful rally.

    Hundreds of people had assembled informally in the large public square to remember the 31 victims of last Tuesday's terror attacks when dozens of men, some wearing masks and balaclavas, barged to the centre.

    It comes after a planned peace march through the city was cancelled at the request of Brussels police, who said they were too thinly-stretched to provide enough security for a large-scale demonstration.

    The group of black-clad men had mounted the steps of the stock exchange building in the square and started chanting slogans against the Isis jihadist group.

    Some members of the group were seen making Nazi salutes, confronting ethnic minority groups and throwing flares.

    Riot squads joined police in the square a short while later and, after they ignored requests to disperse in line with the earlier advice from officials, water cannons were deployed. People gathered at the vigil cheered as the protesters were driven away.

    Adrian Liston, who was present at the vigil, told the BBC that the memorial had been disrupted by a "bunch of skinheads" who had turned up "in force".

    "They marched into the square and started a major confrontation with the peace protesters," he added.

    "At this point they were really starting to get in the face of the peace protesters, the face of the police, setting off flares, setting off fireworks, and chanting stuff that was really quite ugly."

    Earlier, Belgian police carried out 13 new raids across Brussels as part of a major crackdown in the wake of the terror attacks last week.

    The raids took place in various districts and led to nine arrests, with suspects questioned "in the context of terrorism", a statement read.

    Five were later released, the federal prosecutor's office said, with no further details provided.

    Belgian police have also charged a second suspect with involvement in a terrorist group as part of the investigation into a foiled attack on Paris.

    The man charged was identified as A Abderrahmane, who wasshot and arrested during a raid in the Brussels district of Schaerbeek on Friday.

    Prosecutors said on Saturday that Abderrahmane would be detained for a further 24 hours, and the Belgian press agency Belga said on Sunday he has now been charged.

    It reported that he was charged in connection with a related raid in France this week, which authorities have previously said foiled an apparent attack.

    Meanwhile, the Belgian interior minister admitted that errors were made in the run-up to the Brussels attacks that killed at least 31 people and wounded 270 others on Tuesday.
     
  4. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Keeping in mind the latest Brussels attacks, the terrorists can just grow, arrive and bomb the airport/railways. But the citizens who care for their country can't even protest?

    So what if they said a couple of "ugly" slogans? Muslims can bomb them, but the "fascists" can't even retaliate with words?
     
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  5. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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  6. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    As far as Western MSM is concerned the formula is simple.

    Patriots= americans
    Nationalists= other countries.
    fascists/neo-nazis/etc= russia
     
  7. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]


    Check this post from yesterday's time of India.
     
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  8. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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  9. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The rise of right wing parties is clearly evident. What is the reason for this? If countries like Europe and America are moving more towards Nationalism, what is wrong if India does that?
     
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  10. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mar 27 2016 : The Times of India (Mumbai)

    POLITICALLY INCORRECT - Don't force us to join the India Loyalty Programme

    SHOBHAA DE





    One of my all-time favourite anthems is A R Rahman's stirring tribute to his motherland -India. Each time I hear his voice soar as he sings `Maa tujhe salaam...Vande Mataram', I get goosebumps and a lump in my throat. I had the same intensely emotional response earlier this week when I watched Amitabh Bachchan fervently singing `Jana Gana Mana' at the start of the India-Pakistan cricket match in Eden Garden. Feeling the way I did, I figured I was experiencing genuine love for my beloved country . As definitions and tests of patriotism go, I had certainly passed mine... in my own eyes, of course. If I'd felt deeply moved, if I had moist eyes, if I was getting mushy and sentimental, clearly something wonderful was happening within. I didn't have to deconstruct it... I felt it.That was good enough. Gut feelings say it all. If you tune in to the many nationalistic songs your heart remembers, you will instinctively recognize the extraordinary frisson they generate -some would call it patriotic fervour. This is the only truth you need to identify . Why should anyone be asked to produce arbitrary `proof ' of patriotism?
    It's such a pity that random netas are subjecting citizens to these `tests' and questioning their commitment to the country . If such a test does exist, why not make it public and let people decide whether or not to appear for it? Pass or fail -please identify the examiners. Who appoints them? Is there a panel of experts drawing up exam papers? May we ask for the listed criteria?
    Will raising flag poles on top of each school, college, government building, convert Indians into overnight patriots? Assuming that does indeed happen, will there be a jury that has the final vote on the subject? Who frames the ultimate laws of patriotism and what will these be? Singing the national anthem twice a day? Shouting slogans in public places every week? Placing the right hand over the heart each time the flag is spotted? Wearing the tricolour on the sleeve? Organizing workshops on proper patriotic behaviour? Perhaps, designing appropriate uniforms which will have to be sported by one and all on national days and important holidays. There is safety in conformity , say those who conform! That was the upside. Now, let's look at the downside: What happens to those who refuse to adhere to the rule book and choose to demonstrate their love for the country in their own singular way? Will that be `allowed' by authorities and their designated troops? Is a special cell going to be (officially) created to keep an eye on the un-patriots, pseudo-patriots, self-confessed `traitors', suspected deshdrohis? How will their crimes be identified, tabulated, judged and punished? Special courts? Judges with extra powers?
    Along with a few kangaroos jumping around inside court premises, just in case the judge misses a key point during the trial?
    Why are we doing this? Are we not confident enough of our identity as Indians? And who are these hyper-patriots trying to browbeat citizens into complying with new-fangled `India Loyalty Programmes'? The ugly truth is several netas strutting their patriotic plumes and baying for the blood of those not joining the chorus, have criminal records and serious charges pending in courts. Do lusty cries of `Bharat Mata ki jai' absolve them of all the muck? If for any reason, rational or irrational, someone does not raise a politically approved slogan, does it suddenly debilitate the state? Does India totter because a few citizens refuse to mouth salutations on demand?
    Let's get a few things clear: hoisting flags, singing anthems, shouting slogans do not make a nation great. Progress does.

    Patriotism is pretty hard to define. It is nuanced and complex. It is about loyalty to one's country , above all else. Which is why it is dangerous and juvenile to label anybody a `deshdrohi' for not participating in political posturing. Anybody can chant `Bharat Mata ki jai' mechanically , and not feel a thing about the country . A hardcore traitor could shamelessly chant `Bharat Mata ki jai' and win applause. Words like mata and pita are invested with a great deal of emotional weight.Which country earns the right to be defined as a mata or pita? The country that wins the hearts and trust of its citizens and inspires them to invest the same level of love, respect and reverence towards it. These feelings cannot be artificially manufactured. A nation that generates these emotions organically , devoid of manipulation and pressure, automatically creates generations of proud patriots. India has always been such a country. We really don't need minders and monitors to tell us how to be patriotic. Do us all a favour, you bullies -just vamoose, will you?



    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
  11. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    @sob Would like to know your thoughts as well.
     
  12. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Then there is this article by Shobha De posted above. According to her, a patriot is someone who loves his country for what it does. A nationalist is someone who loves his country no matter what it does.

    According to definition of fascism, it is "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."

    If history teaches us something, it is that the people of a nation (since the concept of nation is universally accepted now instead of one world without borders) have to and have risen up against foreign influence time and again. They have shifted their mind set from secularism to nationalistic/fascist outlook to preserve their culture and/or way of life.

    I think in times like these, fascism is called for. No matter how people define it. A few years of fascism can do some european countries & India a lot of good.
     
  13. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    When people call Nationalist/Patriots as Fascist, Hitler etc at their will, why can't nationalist/patriots call them as Anti Nationals.

    Currently India needs a patriotic Nationalist government who can stop foreign interference in India's internal affairs & preserve Sanatana Dharma & scale up Hindu following percentage to 85%( which is currently at 70%).
     
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  14. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    By whom? that's the important question. One must consider the political affiliations of the person making a subjective remark before we take it as the truth. The meaning of the word 'fascism' has very different cultural connotations in Europe from that is India because of the historic context. India went from monarchy to imperialism, to socialism, to Indira's fascism (very briefly), and back to democracy and so we almost skipped the whole fascist movement which had gripped Europe for long spells. That's why they are rabidly vocal about it. They have a different social order than us. In the west, individualism trumps and everything else is considered as an infringement on individual rights, this includes parents. We don't have that in India. There is a healthy lifelong bond between parents and children and mutual respect. Only spoiled brats with no social skills refer to their parents as fascist, these go on to become communist hippies. Compare that to the kids in the west where every other kid thinks that their parents are an unwelcome interference in their life. It's an unstable social order built on selfishness of the individual self. Everything revolves around personal gratification and so there are many conflagrations against authority. Thankfully that's not the case in India. We are a cohesive society despite the nuclear family structure. That's why people are shocked to see the appalling display of arrogance of the JNU brats. An assault on Indian iconography (flag, anthem, Bharat Mata) is seen by Indians as an assault on our collective conscience and heritage. India is not just a landmass, it is who we are and defines our way of life.

    Patriotism is nothing but ideological subversion. Nationalism defines our identity and our interests, patriotism doesn't. It's just a fancy word crafted by hipsters to be able to indulge in selfish self gratification without having to contend with the fate of the nation as a whole. If you keep your identity and interests undefined, the no one can challenge you when you breach them. That's the game plan of drawing us towards 'patriotism'. Nationalism, in the simplest terms, helps us classify people and interests as as 'ours' and 'not ours'. This binary is essential for any civilization to keep track of whether our collective interests are being subverted. I'll take nationalism any day. We are a nation, we have national interest as a group which we need to defend. Patriotism is the communist's way of intellectually disarming us. The symbols of nationhood are essential to serve as a banner for our common association. France has Marrianne, Russia has Mother Russia, Britain has Britannia, we have Bharat Mata. These western influenced liberals have no problem accepting western Matas but they have a problem with Bharat Mata.

    Marianne :

    [​IMG]

    Britannia :

    [​IMG]

    Mother Russia :

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
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  15. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly my thoughts in the first para when I read that article. How come she has the right to label others and others don't have any right?

    When nationalists do it, they are oppressors. When she does it, it's freedom of speech?

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    For them, freedom of speech means "I will say something and you have to agree with it; If you disagree then you are violating my freedom of speech". The irony of the whole drama is that those who are vehemently purporting to be champions of free speech think that their detractors don't have the same right. Sorry madam, you can use your freedom of speech to say anything you want, I will use my freedom of speech to disagree with you. These are not contradictory events. FoE is not a zero sum game.
     
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  17. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not just Indians. Look at the Belgians. The people are leaning towards nationalism and protesting. They are angry for their land and people. But the media labels them as fascists and ridicules their protests. This is ridiculous.

    Why don't the leaders just leave the "image" aside for a couple of years and accept the need to be nationalists to preserve what is ours? Why can't the Indian so called "intellectuals" let the nationalists have their say without ridiculing them for once?

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  18. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Belgium is a classic case of a rich failed state. This is the end product of what liberal patriotism bequeaths a society. Indians should look at Belgium and realize that our future will be exactly like that if we don't stop listening to the liberal elites who are nothing but self serving individuals. They promote whatever is in their best interests and there is a clear contradiction between the nation's interests and the elite's interests. The wealth created by the elites is directly proportional to the subversion of the interests of the countrymen. The moment these country men are awakened and start demanding their legitimate rights, the elites label them to keep the rebellion at bay. Please have no doubt that the elites and commoners in any society are ALWAYS on a collision path since the former thrives at the expense of the latter. That is why it is the responsibility of the citizens to stay aware and organized. The biggest threat is from the traitors within. It's suppression of the interests of the commoners which leads to events like the French revolution. The amount of anger against the elites was so high at that time that the citizens beheaded their leaders and carried their heads on a pike. Every nation has its brand of parasitic leeches who eventually climb their way to the top of national institutions and start wielding disproportionate influence to steer the course of the nation at the expense of the interests of the majority. France had Louis XVI (~1750), Germany and Russia had a Jewish infestation during world war, just like India currently has a Bengali (mass media) and Malayali (bureaucracy) infestation. These Jholawalas exert ideological influence on the national narrative owing to their disproportionately high representation in the media. No wonder you have all these De, Ray, Roy, Banerjee, Mukherjee, Chaterjee writing all these subversive articles which are not in the interest of the majority.

    The 2014 victory of Modi was nothing less than an Indian revolution to push back the disease of self-serving leftist elites which had gripped the nation.

    To answer your question simply : Their interests and our interests do not coincide, they in fact contradict each other. These 'intellectuals' know it very well. This intellectual subterfudge is what has allowed them to amass wealth and influence disproportionate to their capability. They are doing what is best for them, we ought to do what is best for us and resist. They know very well that letting us have our say will ring the death knell for their lavish way of life.

    So, when a person who did a month long, 24X7 marathon coverage on 'the beef man of Dadri' says this, you ought to know he is not doing it out of ignorance :

    [​IMG]

    We don't have to take lessons in morality and nationalism from page 3 socialites like Shobha De who are hypocrites of the highest order
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The only response to such people is this :

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
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  19. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    on the same note, a govt./organisation could be termed as 'racist'/'extremist' AGAINST its own populace in favour of some external entity. for instance, left parties seeking ban on protests by parents of victims of 'grooming' in UK, inviting influx of immigrants in your country & appeasing them in all ways, belgian govt. offering to construct a mosque in brussels & invite salafist clerics from the saudia in return for business....
     
  20. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    Why go on circles?
    Come to the direct point,Is BJP,RSS and their supporters are the only Patriots, Nationalists or Fascists.

    The answer is...... with only 4-6% Muslim population entire Europe turned into Patriots, Nationalists and Fascists.We Hindus are too late in this game thanks to Khangress&self loathing Secular Hindus .....The power of Islam even made Burmese Buddhists monks as ruthless killers(6%). :mad2::mad2:

    Actually i'm also the guy who hates Orthodoxy,Religion or God but we don't have a choice until unless muslims stop reading 'Hate book' then riots&blasts.
     
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  21. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Hindu saints are being arrested under false charges and we are being called fascist!

    Check this : http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...abricated-says-kanchi-seer/article8405558.ece
     

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