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Double post. Delete this.
History if ignored is what determines the ills of the present. This present becomes a past eventually and again if ignored shapes up the ills of the future.@Qsaark--There is no point talking about past incidents.
Let's talk about current facts.
Does current situation allow for a INDO-PAK unification.
Hasn't it become a hub of terrorist activities.There are no permanent enemies and
friends in the real world.The US used Pakistan as it wanted and in turn Pakistan got what it wanted.Pak can't complain now. we can't rest on past laurels, can we ?
As facts change, so will the relations. 9/11 takes place and you expect the US not to wake up to new realities and review it's relations with Pakistan ?
Yes, we are on our way. Don't want to convert this thread into a Economics thread.
The current Pakistan is not a secular state said:How do you plan to change a Islamic state into a secular state ?
Just by merging borders ?
[QUOTE=If you think Pakistan is less of a threat than a chaotic Afghanistan, and that you’re better-off having Pakistan as your neighbor, you really need some logical thinking. With Afghanistan as our new neighbor, and given how it relies on foreign military for its security, we stand a better chance of neutralizing the rogue elements emanating from Afghanistan once and for all. We will share a border, and our troops in the ‘enemy territory’ will have direct, logistical support from the mainland. Lack of political will, a hostile neighbor in India, and limited military ordinance are some of the reasons why Pakistan isn’t able to solve the Afghanistan problem.
If we share borders with Afghanistan and INDO-PAK is reunited our troops won't be fighting in "Enemy territory". We will be fighting in our territory and I don't want that.you are aware US itself is struggling.Forget Taliban, we have naxals operating in our land and we are not able to do anything. At least, naxals go after police and not civilians in general.
Pakistan doesn’t need reconstruction. Its infrastructure and state machinery is intact. Economic dilution is really a short-term problem. As for defense said:I do agree with some of the points here. But, don't you think, the bigger the army, the difficult it is to feed it and maintain it.
[QUOTE=You know, by thinking that radicalization of Islam is ‘here to stay’ and a ‘fact’ (dogmatic truth), you’re effectively giving into them. That’s exactly what they want you to believe (that they’re invincible, irreversible), while the truth is far from it. Islamic radicalization is a product of social oppression, since ‘radicalization’ itself is sought as a last-resort by them to hurdle up and face a challenge. Today their challenge is India, and the people they’re mislead to believe are ‘oppressed’ in Indian Kashmir, who need ‘freedom’. When you eliminate their problems, their return to moderate Islam will be as quick as their transition to radicalism. Dissolve our boundaries, and you will solve the Kashmir problem (no more LOC, nothing to fight for). Give the youth proper education, give them jobs, give them proper social support structures, and you solve the need for every young man who is unable to make a decent and peaceful career to opt for radicalism.
As for the Taliban, the very fact that they don’t control Kabul anymore shows that they’re not here to stay, and are a very fragile, ill-equipped, and ill-trained enemy. We will be able to crush them with the same ease with which China crushes radical elements within its state.
I've been as reasonable with my arguments as possible. Let's hope it helps.
Your basic premise that by dissolving boundaries problems{LOC, Kashmir} will be solved is flawed.By saying "Islamic Terrorism is here to stay", I am only accepting facts.By saying damage will be short term are you willing to let the terrorists blow up your fellow country men.In how many years are we going to clear the Taliban ? 1 year or 10 years. How long are we willing to bleed ?
The terrorists we have have in Kashmir are pretty much paid ones.I do believe Kashmir will be peaceful again.
How do we plan to protect the youth/rest of India from the teachings of the mullah ?
We have ports. We will do business through the seas.It doesn't matter to be landlocked on the North west and North East.
Even if there is a revolt/political will in Pakistan, will the army and the ISI allow reunification ?
It is a handful Pak Muslim elites + Part of Pak Army + Mullahs + West/USA Vs Rest of the sub-continent.So what is forming?
It is a handful Pak muslim elites + Part of Pak Army + Mullahs Vs Rest of sub-continent
Not very difficult.....if common Pakistani wake up and take the initiative...atleast to earn their own rights.
Some stupid Pakistani say such things and some more stupid Indian quote it to generalize all Pakistani and to spoil a good mutualy respective discussion. i am sorry but I had to complain against it.Re-unification for sure but not with those pakistanis. :blum3: They always claim that they are from a foreign land and conquered the 'Hindu land'. They even cannot decide who are their fore-father!!!! lol We should take our land back and send those pakistanis to their father's land.
Well I don’t agree with your analysis of the situation. What worst can happen to Pakistan if she does not get the help or aid from the so called friends? Pakistan would have to file for bankruptcy as did the Argentine? What else? Those who have invested in Pakistan would let it happen?Pakistan to wakeup and review her relationships with her so-called friends.
Pakistan is not in a state to review it's relations with the US or other friends. It's dependent on US/ other nations funds.
No, we are not on our way. Don't want to convert this thread into a Economics thread.Yes, we are on our way. Don't want to convert this thread into a Economics thread.
Territorial change induces gradual social change. Start off with the same model that binds Hong Kong and China (moderated movement of people and equity). Conduct the same kind of national integration programmes that helped in cementing the then embryonic Indian dominion with newly acceded territories, such as Jammu and Kashmir, Hyderabad State, etc. In due course of time the integration is complete. The German reunification involved transfers of people and equity. Disparities in social structures, and government models took the place the religious disparities we have now. It' will be a longer haul.How do you plan to change a Islamic state into a secular state ?
Just by merging borders ?
No, I'm talking about fighting the Taliban in their backyard. With political will and equipment, throwing them out of our territory won't be difficult. Those terrains aren't even fit for guerrilla warfare. With radical groups such as Naxelites still posing a problem, there is every reason for you to be skeptical, but really, fighting Naxals and Maoists are merely determined by political will, and nothing else. Recent counter-Naxal and counter-Maoist operations bear testimony to that.If we share borders with Afghanistan and INDO-PAK is reunited our troops won't be fighting in "Enemy territory". We will be fighting in our territory and I don't want that.you are aware US itself is struggling.Forget Taliban, we have naxals operating in our land and we are not able to do anything. At least, naxals go after police and not civilians in general.
How so? Pakistan doesn't leave any stone unturned when it comes to keeping its troops' morale high. For starters, they're paid and fed. With reunification, comes unifications of our equity, and we will hence be able to not only sustain the larger armed forces, but also keep its development/modernisation ticking.I do agree with some of the points here. But, don't you think, the bigger the army, the difficult it is to feed it and maintain it.
Simple, tell them that Allah is superior to Mullah, which is a fact. Moderate Muslims follow Allah's Islam, while Extremists follow Mullah's Islam. Mullahs can abuse their sacred position to mislead the youth, while Allah is pure, unassailable truth.The terrorists we have have in Kashmir are pretty much paid ones.I do believe Kashmir will be peaceful again.
How do we plan to protect the youth/rest of India from the teachings of the mullah ?
Oh it has its advantages, We can peacefully set up gas pipelines and rail/road trade-routes with our then neighbours, which will only help our economy.We have ports. We will do business through the seas.It doesn't matter to be landlocked on the North west and North East.
The Pakistani Army ISI combine really isn't as powerful as a military Junta. They know the consequences of trying to be one. It's just that the political class is submissive it and it projects them to be stronger than they are. Whoever is actually running the country, the democratic government is the abstraction layer to the people. But yes, point well taken.Even if there is a revolt/political will in Pakistan, will the army and the ISI allow reunification ?
Is this the patriot in you speaking. If Pakistan really has the nerves, then whats stopping it from putting its foot down and letting the US know, "No drone strikes on my land and airspace " period. Is there any proof that the current GOP was placed by western powers ? Don't tell me Musharaff and all your past dictators came through/placed by western powers.Well I don’t agree with your analysis of the situation. What worst can happen to Pakistan if she does not get the help or aid from the so called friends? Pakistan would have to file for bankruptcy as did the Argentine? What else? Those who have invested in Pakistan would let it happen?
Pakistan is very much in a state to wake up and review its relations with any country. However, all that is needed is some patriotism, and some self sacrifice. The nation is prepared for this but not the GoP. And what GoP, the one that came into power as a result of a 'deal' brokered by the USA/UK/KSA?
It's not. It's of nearly the same proportions of the two German states.INDO-PAK is not Hong kong- china to get reunited and reconciled.
That there will be no more widows, mothers and sisters of soldiers killed for Kashmir's sake, on either sides. It will make them happy.What are you going to answer to all the widows and mothers and sister of soldiers who died in the wars and in Kashmir?.
. If there was a true democratic government in power, she could have taken this matter to the UNSC. That is the most that could have been done. However, this is a regime that came into power through a shady ‘deal’ so no such thing can be and should be expected.Is this the patriot in you speaking. If Pakistan really has the nerves, then whats stopping it from putting its foot down and letting the US know, "No drone strikes on my land and airspace " period
Have you heard of NRO? Have you followed up the interviews given by the Dictator Musharraf and the present President Zardari? and the press briefings by Mr. Holbrook and Mrs. Clinton?Is there any proof that the current GOP was placed by western powers ? Don't tell me Musharaff and all your past dictators came through/placed by western powers.
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