Paris Climate Change Conference 2015

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by Sakal Gharelu Ustad, Nov 23, 2015.

  1. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Please use this thread to post updates on the upcoming conference in Paris.

    To kickstart the discussion:http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/vgLlSiNCSfSFcYTeZR4xWI/Hold-your-ground-in-Paris.html

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    Photo: Getty Images
    Paris has dominated international news headlines recently in the aftermath of the horrendous terrorist attacks by Islamic State. It will be in the news again in a week, on 30 November, for the twenty-first session of the Conference of the Parties (COP 21) to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), which will convene in Le Bourget, a suburb of the French capital.

    If the acronyms are bewildering, the aim of the conference is straightforward, ambitious and, in theory, praiseworthy.
    It is to craft a universal and legally binding treaty to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases (GHGs) and contribute to mitigating the human component of the complex phenomenon of climate change.

    In the run-up to the Paris summit, member countries have put forward their respective national plans to reduce GHGs, known as Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs). India was the last major economy to put forward its INDC in early October.

    In theory, India’s plan is ambitious, pledging to reduce the intensity of GHG emissions by up to 35% by 2030, upping the ante on a previous commitment to reduce up to 25% by 2020.

    India has also committed to altering its energy mix to ensure up to 40% of electricity is produced from non-fossil fuel sources, again by 2030, and again building on prior domestic commitments. Significantly, unlike China, in its submission, India does not indicate a peaking year for its emissions, just a targeted reduction in the intensity of emissions, which allows emissions to continue growing, so long as they grow by less than the rate of economic growth, so that the ratio of GHG emissions to gross domestic product (GDP) falls.

    While the language of all of the major economies, including India, has been conciliatory heading into the conference, we should fully expect that the negotiations that take place behind closed doors, in the proverbially smoke-filled back rooms, will be tough, and we should expect further that the US and other advanced economies, along with China, will seek to extract their pound of flesh from India.

    I had warned in this column almost exactly a year ago that, in the wake of a separate, bilateral deal between the US and China, the rhetorical pressure on India to play ball with the big boys and commit to major mitigation efforts—far beyond what would be in India’s national interest—would ratchet up.

    My pessimism on this front was warranted, alas, as India has now been largely isolated after China’s clever move to commit to peaking of its emissions. China, of course, is great at manufacturing things, and its government can surely manufacture emissions statistics as well as it allegedly manufactures GDP statistics, and it will not be queried too strenuously by a compliant domestic media and politically disenfranchised population.

    It is much harder for democratic India than authoritarian China to commit in a non-credible fashion to aggressive mitigation targets, for it will be held to account in the court of domestic public opinion and in the glare of media scrutiny and assessment and critique by sundry civil society organizations if realized cuts fall short of the mark. That is why, in my judgement, India’s INDC is suitably vague on a roadmap to its intensity reduction target and does not commit to a peaking year.

    Yet, in the bare-knuckled negotiations that occur in the back rooms in Paris, India is sure to be pressured, cajoled or badgered into signing up for a rather more specific, and perhaps even more ambitious, plan than we had bargained for.

    Having been already outflanked in global trade negotiations by a US-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) that India could not, and wisely did not, sign, it yet again risks isolation and being painted by the US and other advanced economies as playing the spoiler if it stands its ground. But stand our ground we must.

    As I argued more recently in this space, tying our hands by signing up to excessively stringent mitigation targets—while it would presumably play well with civil society and in the media—would be harmful, if not downright disastrous, for India’s already precarious growth prospects.

    The politically incorrect reality is that growth is a dirty business, until future technological discoveries, which at this moment are the stuff of science fiction, make it possible to delink economic activity from human impact on the climate.

    Until then, economic growth will be energy-intensive, and India’s GHG emissions will perforce continue to rise, even as intensity falls due to a changing energy mix and incremental technological improvement.

    For an economy still one-third the size of China’s, any realistic emissions peaking date for India is decades in the future.

    In his laudable zeal to win the approbation of the international community for a resurgent India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi must be watchful and not take his eye off India’s national interest and leave others to worry about theirs. If that involves ruffling a few feathers in Paris later this month, so be it.

    Every fortnight, In the Margins explores the intersection of economics, politics and public policy to help cast light on current affairs.

    Comments are welcome at [email protected]. To read Vivek Dehejia’s previous columns, go to www.livemint.com/vivekdehejia-

    Vivek Dehejia
    Topics: Climate changeParis summitCOP 21IndiaChina
     
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  3. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Given Modi's love for solar panels, I hope he does not sacrifice India's interest.

    India should not invest in expensive energy solutions given it has lowest per capita emissions in the world and any such binding constraints can hurt expansion of energy generation.
     
  4. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    There was/is a big discussion in BRF on this issue. One of the main points raised was that, though modi talks about solar panels, he has actually increased the coal production and usage like crazy. So he is not biting fossil fuels when trying to talk solar energy.

    I hope he does not fall into the western trap on climate change and other bull shit and just use the same rhetoric while pushing more and more coal power plants
     
  5. Varahamihira

    Varahamihira Regular Member

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    This conference is nothing but strong arm tactics of West against countries like India.Fossil fuels account 10+ percent of Global Warming.

    The main culprit that's causing Global Warming is Animal farming,which accounts to more than 50% of it.Because of strong lobbying by Animal farming industries,no one calling out the big Elephant in the room.

    It's all about money.The above said industries don't care about climate change or poverty.Hope someone calls their bluff in this conference by questioning the pollution caused by Animal farming.
     
  6. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Can you post some sources to back up your claim?

    It is really an interesting angle to pursue.
     
  7. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not just CAFO but also a cause of reduce in freshwater drinking supply. Any how

    http://ecowatch.com/2013/01/21/factory-farming-global-warming/

    CAFOs contribute directly to global warming by releasing vast amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere—more than the entire global transportation industry. The air at some factory farm test sites in the U.S. is dirtier than in America’s most polluted cities, according to the Environmental Integrity Project. According to a 2006 report by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO), animal agriculture is responsible for 18 percent of all human-induced greenhouse gas emissions, including 37 percent of methane emissions and 65 percent of nitrous oxide emissions.

    The methane releases from billions of imprisoned animals on factory farms are 70 times more damaging per ton to the earth’s atmosphere than CO2.
     
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  8. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Our theme for the negotiations is "Climate Justice"....... fuck these Fascists.
     
  9. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    And that's how you bull shit with statistics.


    Really, what is the amount of co2 released by industries as compared to the amount of methane released from animal farms. Even if methane is a bigger green house gas, is there any statistic to say that methane release from animal farming is higher than the amount of CO2 from industries and humans and power plants?


    For example, 1000 tonnes of CO2 causing 0.005°C increase per tonne causes 5°C increase in temperature overall. While 10 tonnes of methane which cause 0.05°C per tonne would still only cause 0.5°C increase overall. ,even though in this example methane causes a ten times greenhouse effect as CO2.


    you people peddling this bs only because

    1. YOU want a scapegoat to pin this climate change bull shit on

    2/ you don't eat meat yourself.

    Frankly, I see no difference between climate fascists in the west and what you are doing here:rolleyes:
     
  10. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    FAO report said 18% of total GHG emissions i.e. more than what transport sector contributes. And mostly due to factory farming of animals.
     
  11. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Dude really ?18% from farming should cause alarm while the rest of industries and services take up 82%? Come on?:rolleyes:

    And of course that is after taking these idiots claims at face value.


    Another point to ponder:
    How will ocean levels rise because of ice melting? Water is densest at 4°C and ice floating in arctic will actually be less dense than that. So when they melt down, they won't cause any change in the water levels! - BRF of course had great post addressing that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  12. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7122

    I suggest people to go through this thread. awesome debate by the climate change skeptics.


    Also, note how the climate change believers are doing only one thing - name calling and how debate is settled without addressing any point raised by the skeptics even there...
     
  13. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Beef is new Suv good way to shame west & attack Abraham at same time.
     
  14. Varahamihira

    Varahamihira Regular Member

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    Check out the link for sources:
    http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/

    And also watch the documentary.
     
  15. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Animal farming is done by west and hence a way to pull their leg. Indians do not eat meat everyday.
     
  16. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    We all know what will happen .All green groups will do protest as if earth will finished tomorrow ,some joint statement followed by protest and then everyone will forget.This global warming by humans is the biggest unscientific theory of all times.It is going to be:bs:
     
  17. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    I didn't get what you wrote about increase in temperature per ton and all that.

    This is simple. The large quantity of waste and it's improper recycling cause affect. It is already researched and proven. There is no second thought to it.

    Its is the water resource which also gets badly affected.
     
  18. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Just thought about it. Ice is light and floats over water, which means 10% of it is outside water and is concentrated in the polar regions. Now you melt it and it spreads as water around the whole world. So water levels would indeed rise if all the ice melts in the polar region.
     
  19. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    water in ocean is not distilled but saline, so it is most dense at -2°C not 4°C. :)
     
  20. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    No reason to not clean up India & have sustainable thorium energy.

    No reason to not send West the bill.. :biggrin2:

    Realistically look east to deny west those devel markets

    Politics of ghg has to be separate from science.

    As brf thread says


    The only way it works is to behave like an umerican here., India must take this position:

    Quote:
    India has the right to emit as much GHGs per capita as Americans, Australians and Canadians. India will strive to match per capita emissions of US, Australia and Canada. Whichever is higher


    Now we can negotiate. If Australians do not want us to emit more GHGs., let them give us Uranium and we keep the plutonium. Same with America., they can as well send in some plutonium to start our 3rd generation thorium reactors.

    And Canadians can give us zero-interest loans to install nuclear power plants and solar plants. The rest of the Europe can give us technologies (free) for setting up Solar Cell manufacturing.

    Till that time, we *must* emit GHGs to develop our economy.
     
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  21. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    Only water in sea becomes ice not Salt content (or very little saline).If you don't know science keep quiet. Water become dense at 4 C that is why layer above water becomes ice not entire water/sea/river. So all living creatures live below happily. :lol:
     

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