Pakistans Suicide Bomber Problem

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by mattster, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    This is really puzzling to me.

    It seems like suicide-bombers are coming of a mass production assembly line factory line in pakistan. In the old days they were only used for major attacks against India or other foreigner in Pak......but now its seems like even a small tribal quarrel ends up with a suicide bombing attack.

    I know what the common excuses are - poverty, corruption, gun culture, etc, etc........but hey, there are so many countries in the world that have these same problems, but people dont strap bombs on themselves.

    Even in the number-1 Failed state in the world in Somalia.......you dont see them blowing themselves up for every little thing factional dispute. Some people blame the madrassas....but even in war-torn African countries with tons of madrassas - you dont see this behavior. Indonesia is full of Madrassas but you dont see this.

    I would love to hear from some Pakistanis on this forum, as to why this is so unique to Pakistan. I am not trying to put Pakistan down.....i understand its a huge problem for them.....but what is it exactly about Pak that makes it look like they are cranking out these wackos like cookies coming off an assembly line in a biscuit factory ??

    PS: Please lets keep the replies civil, without resorting to any anti-Pak ranting & raving
     
  2.  
  3. sky

    sky Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    25
    Lack of a decent education is the main cause, you have to remember pak has no education system that most people can get access to.so its up to the madrassas to take up the slack,and up until a few years ago they were being sent over to afghanistan to fight the soviets,and not to mention kill indians in kashmir.once you let the genie out off the bottle,its difficult to put a lid on it.i would go even further and say if they cant get to us accross the loc they are quite happy to cause murder and mayhem in their own country.then accuse raw off trying to destabilise pak[sri lanka cricket team] ,you just get the feeling these guys dont care who they kill or what cause they fight for.and this mindset has not changed even though the country they love and fight for is in danger of breaking up due to the forces that were created to give pak influence in its nieghbour hood

    :india:
     
  4. SSG VIPER

    SSG VIPER Guest

    I will just answer ur concern about PAK educational programes sir most of the 70% asian doctor in england are PAKISTANI.Our 66%male population and 54%female population is literate.Govt. schools are free till primary,matric and now they are calling for a totally free education.Govt is working on a plan to achieve 88%-90% literacy rate till 2014.Our educational intitiutes are one of the finest where students from china,gulf iran and central asia come to seek knowledge.To say our education system is not correct is utter B.S.And the madrassa schools u r talking are mostly in rural or semi urban town where people send there children for RELIGIOUS eduaction.Asthere are also many in india.About concern of pakistan army yes we see india as our enemy and same can be said about indian army?right.So lets cut the cap and talk some sense
     
  5. Dark_Prince

    Dark_Prince Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    79
    In pakistan Mad-rasa education is equivalent to any school education do u consider a contributing factor to literacy?? or to current and future problems? religious education is causing havoc in pakistan!! Lal masjid etc instances and other crack downs on madrases are the resultants! man u too emotional or frustrated with ur state of affairs .....u r here to bring out ur frustration or what?:rolleyes:
     
    maomao likes this.
  6. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    All I can do is laugh at your post because most of the numbers you got there are off-mark and incorrect. If you think otherwise, quote some credible sources to backup your argument.

    Here is something for you in the mean time

     
  7. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    20
    I saw a video of so called sucide bomber. I saw him boasting about 71 virgins. It might sound stupid but if you make someone believe that if he kills himself for a cause, he will get 71 virgins, he can be highly motivated. When people kill or become killer for one girl here we are talking about 71. I feel this is root cause brainwashing of kids.
     
  8. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    Sorry for nitpicking, it is not 71 but 72 virgins. Suicide bombers might get mad if the number goes wrong. :p
     
  9. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    The funny thing about this 71 virgins story is that these guys live in a world where they want every woman to be covered up with a burqa from head-to-toe.

    Then they die in a suicide bombing and go to heaven as a shahid, and all of a sudden, Allah's magnificient heaven becomes an absolute Whore-house, with endless virgins and orgies with angels.
    I cant imagine how they can conceive of a heaven with endless sex and orgy and with Allah's blessing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  10. VayuSena1

    VayuSena1 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    13
    That was a crack post, mattster. I was in a rather tetchy mood today due to some issues but you made me smile. Thanks a tonne.
     
  11. lcatejas

    lcatejas Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Bharat
  12. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    Jokes aside, the idea that 72 virgins are a reward for suicide bombing is a misconception. The Quran which is considered to have the final say in Islamic jurisprudence mentions no such things . The claim actually comes from a Hadith(sayings of the prophet) which is weaker in authenticity and even that is a reward in general for people of paradise and not martydom as such where the smallest reward is described as having 72 wives among palaces and servants.

    Suicide bombing itself is considered haram or prohibited by consensusm among majority of scholars. Even the much maligned wahabbi\salafi ulemas of Saudi Arabia have issues fatwas declaring it haram even if its against the Israelis. And this is not recently but back in the 80s when Hizbullah was using suicide bombing tactics against Israel.

    Ofcourse, this doesn't mean that religious justification is still provided by extremist and terrorist groups. In case ofHizbullah - a mainly shia group - it was given justification as martydom operation and not a suicide operation just to deviate from the technical term. Later extremists groups in Pakistan also took up more and more distorted explanation on why it can be allowed. But the fact remains that Suicide is explicitly forbidden in the Quran which is afterall the ultimate source of Islamic law in Islam.

    In Pakistan itself there were many religious scholars who spoke against such bombings but most of them were either killed in retaliation and some have left the country. Others are just to scared to speak out now.

    The other aspect that seems to play a major role in the use of suicide terrorism is the perception of locals that their land is occupied by foreign troops. Here are some earlier threads that discussed this issue in detail if you want to understand the issue of suicide terrorism.
    This thread has videos from 9/11 attackers and other suicide bombers and none of them mention 72 virgins
    Robert Pape speaks on Suicide Terrorism and how to stop it - New America Foundation
    and another read is this thread which contains a number of articles analysing this.
    Understanding the Strategic Logic behind Suicide Terrorism

    The result it seems is the uncomfortable reality that people in FATA where most of the suicide bombers are coming from feel that they are under occupation of Pakistani milatary forces.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  13. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,326
    Likes Received:
    1,493
    Weren't the Hashishin (Ismaili Shias) were the ones who first propagated this idea to their cadre so that they would do jobs where the survival rate was slim.They usually did this by drugging the apprentices with opium and placing them near women and then again were drugged and brought back to the barracks they had a belief they were shown the trial version of heaven by their master.
     
  14. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    2,389
    x2 this is what happens when a man has a frustrated life,i mean to have the bliss of seeing a beautiful lady is really a lottery when you live in a country of burkha
     
  15. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    20,982
    Likes Received:
    11,810
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat

    hahaha 70 % doc in UK are Pakistani . R u high on some drugs or u dont know what you r writing. It's the other way around 70% doc in UK r of Indian origin. Pak Govt is planing to achieve 80% literacy rate wah kya baat ha. paise kaha se ayenge.

    watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UCLzd-1Xr0&playnext=1&list=PLDCB816EBA6DBFD72. Galatphaeme door ho jayegi.
     
    maomao likes this.
  16. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Suicide bomber/bombing is not a new concept. One of the earliest known suicide bomber was Samson(bomber is not the term I wanted to use here), who killed Philistines by pulling 2 pillars together. Samson was a Jew. LTTE used suicide bombers to a great degree of accuracy in killing their targets. While religious extremism was also profoundly and very successfully used by the PA and ISI, the credit goes to Pakistan's illiterates, fanatical Mullahs and also the US of A.

    If I go by logic, then majority of illiterates are also poor in Pakistan. Poor people are amongst the section that have been found to be more religious, and that is in all religions. Poor people find religion as a way to ease their frustration and pain. They would rather hear a religious song/teaching when ill, than go and see a Doc. Very easy to indoctrinate, motivate and lead astray. This is where Mullahs seek their prey. Add to it the hate-India, hate-Hindus/Jews teaching on their curriculum. Kids who don’t even know what religion is are taught who their enemies are.

    If we look back at the 15th century, witch hunt was sponsored by the Roman Catholic Church and one of the main reasons was that women had started to question the Church. Many innocent women were burned at stakes for more than three centuries, by falsely accusing them of practicing witch-crafts. This is where bigots of Pakistan strike. Mullahs with personal agendas and to control their grip over women & society, mis-teach the Quran and blah blah about 72 virgins. Not tough considering they have a constant source of funding from the Middle-east, PA, ISI and the illiterate Pakistani minds to feed upon. Only the PA & ISI can stop this, but they will not, as they see terrorists as their only leverage in keeping their country afloat.

    Mujahideens were created by the CIA alongwith ISI, to give USSR their Vietnam in Afghanistan. Finally when USSR re-treated, US left Afghanistan in a mess. US did not think once of cleaning up these demons they created. And the ISI kept them as strategic tools to be used against India. And to this day, it continues.
     
  17. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,497
    Likes Received:
    4,142
    Shazad and London tube bombers etc were not illiterate and poor.....its pakistani fanatical society and bigoted ideology that makes them a suicide bomber....by your logic 90%+ of pakistanis should blow themselves at this instant!! Pheeew at-last world peace after pakistanis eliminate themselves. :)
     
  18. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    Yeah! you are right. It's religious indoctrination. I said mostly Mullahs prey on poor people, but yes even educated Pakistanis are mis-guided often by the teachings of Jihadi madrassas.

    I wish!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2011
  19. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    Well I was specifically referring to the idea of suicide bombing where in someone straps explosives and is 100% certain of killing himself.

    This is different from going on an extremely dangerous "mission" where chances of survival are slim. The Hashashins again were a fringe sect but their aim was not to kill themselves but to kill their opponents. A suicide bomber kills himself with his own hand which is explicitly forbidden and the tech to do so is relatively new. Among Muslims the first case is usually cited around the 80s under the shia-based Hizbullah when fighting against Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon.
     
  20. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Location:
    Hyderabad and Sydney
    @Oracle

    Yes there might be a section where poor people are indoctrinated and used but the main driver seems to be occupation or perception of occupation of land and threat to identity by foreign/hostile forces usually of a different religious or ethinc profile. Check out the links of the two threads that I put in my earlier post to get an idea of what I am talking about.

    That is why you had educated Lebanese under Hizbullah and even Christian Palestinians launching what they called martydom operations against Israel. Shazad and the other london bombers if you look at their videos specifically claim the occupation of Iraq among others as their main driver. Similarly the example you gave of LTTE also consisted of even educated Tamils who were fighting the occupation of the mainly Buddhist Sri Lankan govt. forces.

    So its not just education that drives people to use Suicide bombing as a tactic.
     
  21. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,120
    Likes Received:
    1,541
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    I agree Ejaz, however I also think that these are fringe elements within the population. Most people who are Muslims (religious) think more about how to earn a daily bread, just like any other guy from any other religion. For someone sitting in Pakistan,to be upset about the happenings in Iraq - add to it the religious hate sermons they receive is too much to take. Most of the members of Al-Qaida, Taliban are illiterates, aren't they? And I'm not talking about the poster boys of the likes of Osama Bin laden.
     

Share This Page