Pakistan's Ideology and Identity crisis

[cobra commando]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U9IIhqXJ1Fg

 

[sorcerer]

Pakistan's identity crisis -

Pakistan's identity crisis

More than a month has gone by since the attack on APS, Peshawar. Military courts have been established and schools have been made responsible for their own security. The country is still limping back from one crisis and is now forced to deal with a self-imposed fuel shortage. Are these events written in the stars or does the fault lie within ourselves? We are racked with violence and extremism while our civil society is inept and known to celebrate suicidal maniacs with vigour and fanfare. Hangings of convicted murderers bring out a vote for sympathy in their favour. Volunteers administering polio shots are killed and anyone with a different ideology is destroyed.

The land of the pure wishes to represent all Muslims of the world, where ever they maybe, by rioting for their causes and protesting in their support. Buildings are burnt and facilities are demolished because of the emotional tantrum we suffer on account of real or perceived insults to our belief. Is Pakistan only made up of emotional mobs and nothing more, where might is always right and each citizen is left to their own struggle for survival of the fittest? Why then are the expectations of the population so lofty? There is talk of democracy and a demand for progress. Herein lies the contradiction and where we need to find the answer to how Pakistan can operate as a nation. Today's society appears to neither have the intent nor capacity to right itself but is indecisively wavering about in search of answers. The 'Pakistani Nation' as a whole is at fault. Pakistanis act as their own worst enemy and are on a circular path that leads nowhere. This cannot be righted by anyone but ourselves and it must start by de-radicalising the populace.

Once the radicalised element is under control, society can relearn to live for their belief rather than to just die for it. People will once again be free to discuss in the open whether Pakistan is an ideological state or not. If, according to outspoken opinion, the most important pillar of statehood is ideology, then it should certainly not be left in the hands of the fanatical mullah. This extreme aberration holds domestic and foreign policy hostage to his own interpretation of ideology, causing violent protests if his narrow views and demands are not strictly adhered to.

A moderate form of religion-based governance may not be feasible, when one person's interpretation of religion does not recognise another person as a Muslim. If ideology itself is responsible for dividing the nation into small little hate groups, then surely one needs to consider rational statehood in lieu of the theological form. Was Pakistan created as a result of repression or was it created in order for Muslims to have a way to repress others? Was Pakistan always an Islamic Republic? If there is an alternative identity which doesn't violate the number one priority, the well-being of its populace, then it must be sought. Regardless of whether Pakistan turns into a more inclusive system or not, madrassas must be reined in and the role of religion in politics has to be reviewed. The authority of the maulvi also requires clear definition so as to avoid any delusions. The state should be returned to the citizens, to live in an air of freedom without fear and fraud, without prejudice and malice towards anyone.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 26th, 2015.


Pakistan's identity crisis – The Express Tribune

whats interesting is the comment ..saner voices..

 

[Virendra]

Threads merged. Please try to re-use existing threads on the topic.

 

[roma]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/861151/...ing-beard-wife-gets-2-years-for-wearing-veil/

Chinese court jails Muslim for 6 years for growing beard, wife gets 2 years for wearing veil
In August authorities in Karamay city banned people with large beards or Islamic clothing from traveling
on public buses.

so much for pak leadership in OIC.

 

[Bangalorean]

I was not sure which thread to put this in. Though this news is nominally about Pakistan, it is more proof of what big morons and chutiy@s we Indians are. I am sure Indians are the most idiotic, most moronic and most brainless fellows on the planet.

Hockey India offers financial help to Pakistan Hockey Federation - The Times of India

Hockey India offers financial help to Pakistan Hockey Federation

NEW DELHI: In a fine gesture, Hockey India (HI) on Saturday offered financial help to their Pakistan counterpart after the national hockey federation of the neighbouring country suspended a training camp because it could not pay its players and coaches daily allowances.

Yeah, "fine gesture indeed", after this behaviour by Paki hockey players in India just a couple of months ago:

Champions Trophy: Pakistani players celebrate India win with obscene gestures - The Times of India

Champions Trophy: Pakistani players celebrate India win with obscene gestures

The gestures of the Pakistani players infuriated every person present at the stadium.

And yeah, Pakis started a worldwide Twitter trend "RoIndiaRo" after their hockey victory. Sportsmanship? Spirit of the game?

I say it again - Indians are proving themselves to be the biggest chutiy@s in the world. Let the Pakis buy one less submarine from China and fund their hockey team no, why the fcuk should you and I pay for Paki players?

 

[anupamsurey]

I was not sure which thread to put this in. Though this news is nominally about Pakistan, it is more proof of what big morons and chutiy@s we Indians are. I am sure Indians are the most idiotic, most moronic and most brainless fellows on the planet.

Hockey India offers financial help to Pakistan Hockey Federation - The Times of India

Yeah, "fine gesture indeed", after this behaviour by Paki hockey players in India just a couple of months ago:

Champions Trophy: Pakistani players celebrate India win with obscene gestures - The Times of India

And yeah, Pakis started a worldwide Twitter trend "RoIndiaRo" after their hockey victory. Sportsmanship? Spirit of the game?

I say it again - Indians are proving themselves to be the biggest chutiy@s in the world. Let the Pakis buy one less submarine from China and fund their hockey team no, why the fcuk should you and I pay for Paki players?

agree cent percent with you, we should not help Pakis. every Indian, including some paki sympathizers know that what a tick pakistan is. besides in India even hockey is not in that better condition, so naturally we must improve overself first, let the paki beg for hockey funds from their fathers.

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Pakistani elite quest for arab identity

Partition of India was a difficult chapter in south Asian affairs. The idea of "Pakistan" as a separate nation for Muslims was mooted to protect the interest of Pakistani elite. They were scared of kind of socialist thoughts propagated by prominent Indian leaders of both communities. Thus the idea of a separate nation was mooted. The kind of feudalism prevalent in Pakistan today is a testimony to that.

Once the partition was done, the search for "new" identity started. the ruling class refused to identify themselves as South Asians . several books were authored to bring out the differences between Pakistani people and natives of India. They refused to accept that their identity and begin to believe that they were in fact descendants of Arabs. the fact they were descendants of a rich culture over 3000 yrs was lost on them.

systematically, the new identity was propagated. anybody who disagreed was termed "traitor". Indo nuclear tests of 1974, Pakistan intensified its quest for nuclear weapons. it sought to identify itself as leader and protector of Arab states.

The fact of the matter is Arab states have never identified south Asian Muslims as their brothers. For them south Asian Muslims have always been distant "poor" cousins. Any attempt of Pakistani leaders/historians to portray themselves as Arabs were dismissed with disdain.

one look at the difference in culture of Arabs and Indian sub-continent will tell the fact. the food, the language, the clothes and the living, all are different. however this has not deterred Pakistani elite from their quest. Anyone who has stayed in Gulf will tell u the difference between actual Arabs and south Asians working/living there.

the quest for identity is still on after six decades. perhaps that is why many Pakistani identify themselves as "Indian" in US/Canada.

 

[SANITY]

Re: Pakistani elite quest for arab identity

I thought they identify themselves as Indians to avoid discrimination.

 

[GUNS-N- ROSES]

Re: Pakistani elite quest for arab identity

post 9/11, most have identify themselves as Indians in western countries as Indians have much better standing in the eyes of common people especially law enforcement agencies.

 

[bose]

Re: Pakistani elite quest for arab identity

The state of Pakistanis -- "Na Ghar ka na Ghat Ka" The same Arabs treats Pakistanis as parasites ...

 

[Simple_Guy]

Re: Pakistani elite quest for arab identity

The first Pakistani? - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

The whole notion of Qasim's invasion of Sindh being the genesis of a separate Muslim state in South Asia was first imagined by a handful of Pakistani archaeologists in 1953.

It then found its way into the narrative of religious parties such as the JI, before being weaved into school text books

What's most interesting is the fact that as far as the region's history is concerned, or even that of the Arabs, Qasim's foray into Sindh was not quite the significant event it is made up to be. In 731 when al-Hakim al-Kalbi was appointed governor of Sindh (some 20 years after Qasim's death), he found a land where a majority of those who had converted to Islam (during Qasim's stay here), had reverted back to being either Hindu or Buddhist. So much for Qasim's Sindh being the genesis of Pakistan.

 

[Blackwater]

some paki arab on baki forum


Joined:Aug 23, 2008
Messages:4,812
Ratings:+2 / 2,894 / -5
Pakistan
Pakistan
Why are Pakistani going nuts over this kind of language? go through various posts on this forum and you'll find more condescending and harsher language used against Arabs by Pakistani members.

Admit it or not, our stupid parliament has made Pakistan more isolated than it was a few days ago. For 70 years you harp continuously to be their best friend and strategic ally with a begging bowl in one hand, and ditch them the first time they ask for your support. Spineless opportunist is the right phrase to describe

Don't know what you mean by that? We are different from India, that is the very reason we got independence.

 

[cobra commando]

KARACHI: With Pakistan just two days away from observing Defence Day and marking the 50th anniversary of the 1965 war, historian and political economist Dr Akbar S. Zaidi dispelled ‘the victory myth’, saying that there can be no a bigger lie, as Pakistan lost terribly. People are unaware of this fact because the history that is taught in Pakistan is from an ideological viewpoint, said Dr Zaidi during his thought-provoking lecture titled ‘Questioning Pakistan’s history’. “Students are not taught the history of the people of Pakistan rather it is focused on the making of Pakistan,” he said. The event was organised by the Faculty of Social Sciences, Karachi University. Dr Zaidi who also teaches history at the Institute of Business Administration, Karachi, began his lecture by raising a couple of questions: what is Pakistan’s history and is there a need to question Pakistan’s history. And when was Pakistan formed? Aug 14, 1947 or Aug 15, 1947? For him the fact we are still talking about historical events 68 years later that are apparently settled is interesting. “These events and questions have not been settled. They are constantly being reinterpreted, this is because history does not die, it keeps reliving by questioning facts and truths.” Coming to the question when was Pakistan created, he said one obvious answer is it did so on Aug 14, 1947 but he read out an excerpt from a Pakistan Studies textbook in which it was claimed it came into being in 712AD when the Arabs came to Sindh and Multan. “This is utter rubbish!” he exclaimed, rejecting the textbook account. He said the first interaction with Muslims and Arabs occurred in Kerala in South India for trading purposes.


Read more:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1204953

 

[rock127]

Pakistan EXTREME BRAINWASHING School children - Hinduism Hatred

 

[Bornubus]

It's funny that Pakis worship central Asian and Arab invaders as Muslim conquer while forgetting that their cities were sacked and their ancestors enslaved by these same invaders without offering any real fight.

Multan,Lahore,Uch etc were sacked by almost all invaders like Ghauri and Timur while Babur mounted several successful invasions in Pakistan before entering India.

At least Indian rulers even female like Naikidevi and Prithviraj resisted them with all unfavourable conditions.

Even foreigners like Mughals took Indians as their Allies and appointed them to rule over Low Born filthy Pakis ( governor of Lahore and Kabul were Hindus)

None of fhe mughal never made any matrimonial or political alliance with low Born mallecha Paki converts. They were ruled over by Indians and foreigners in their entire history,major exception being Dahir,Rai,Porus and Sikhs.

 

[Compersion]

This would link to also the Pakistan Nuclear Weapon Area going ahead:

Pakistan clearly states it has missiles that have a reach to India. The distance from Pakistan to India is with a range from 2,000 KM to 3,000 Km + (probably further depending on the weightage of the weapon). The range of its missiles are the same and also includes fighter jets and others equipments. This would also allow such and its military to be based from parts of Baluchistan to Northern areas and occupied parts of Pakistan that can reach all over India. Pakistan ideology and and identity by way of its existence is Anti-India. That is known and accepted.

However because of its missile range of 2,000 KM - 3,000 KM + it has by way of its ideology and identity also shown it has existence to be part of Sunni and Middle East and also Israel considerations. Since no missile and military weapon of Pakistan is program only to shoot to India (it can move in other directions). There is also example of Pakistan not having control of where its missile fall which is even more distinct. It is by express and purpose that Pakistan looks away from India. From this it is without doubt that Pakistan is not only anti-India but Pakistan has a identity and Ideology of being anti-Israel and pro-Sunni (and its passport is a evidence of such).

With that

There is news of USA and Pakistan looking at having its nuclear weapon and area be "governed" and brought into the international framework. But the reason is to make sure the Pakistan nuclear and military posture is without doubt moved away from Israel and such distances and also to fit in the piece left open by Iran nuclear deal with others. It is simply a attempt to get Pakistan to only point their military and nuclear weapons at India and away from Israel. (Not good to read this and also the strategic partnership with India but sometimes there is more that meets the eyes and like below)

Now what would the India establishment and also people like NSA - Mr Doval and our chaps think to such and if i were such people I would say this:

Since Baluchistan range to Israel is the least and most manageable way for Pakistan to send its missiles and also military equipment (including jets and armed special forces) to Israel and such areas ... and if USA wants a Nuclear deal with Pakistan that is "safer" and "safest". A conditional precedent to any nuclear deal with Pakistan is that Baluchistan be separated from its administration and occupation. Baluchistan freedom movement be part of USA planning. Having a large permanent USA military base in Baluchistan is another solution that monitors all movement inside but that would come with massive costs and blowbacks.

The separation of Baluchistan by physical parameters and also implicit because of its threat to Israel and nearby areas (including Europe) is now part of the nuclear deal with America no matter Pakistan likes it. And since Pakistan and USA have started talking it is part of the package already. Israel distance from Baluchistan is a fact. If Pakistan wants to be part of international framework and customs it needs to smarten up first. Pakistan can continue to be anti-India but at what cost. Without Baluchistan it can still exist. Pakistan being Anti-India has consequence that it needs to look at carefully.

USA is not stupid no doubt. A line of thought that is a straight line takes time to develop and USA is master of getting such lines of thought.

Baluchistan is significant to Pakistan nuclear weapon future. Freedom of Baluchistan is going to happen the way Pakistan is behaving and wanting and Pakistan needs to look at what is really going on.

Dont blame India ! It is the identity and ideology of Pakistan only !

 

[pmaitra]

Pakistan is another one of those Fascist countries that cannot even tolerate those, one of whom was the reason why Pakistan exists:

 

[musalman]

Pakistan is another one of those Fascist countries that cannot even tolerate those, one of whom was the reason why Pakistan exists:

They ask for your sect in Hajj application because as per Shia school, Woman can do hajj without a male while in Sunni school she can not. Saudi government requires that. If you carefully see that, this area is right below Mehram Application number.

 

[pmaitra]

They ask for your sect in Hajj application because as per Shia school, Woman can do hajj without a male while in Sunni school she can not. Saudi government requires that. If you carefully see that, this area is right below Mehram Application number.

Ok, I will grant you that on technicality. I am still convinced Pakistan is a Shia-hating (and any non-Sunni minority hating) society.

 

[Kshatriya87]

They ask for your sect in Hajj application because as per Shia school, Woman can do hajj without a male while in Sunni school she can not. Saudi government requires that. If you carefully see that, this area is right below Mehram Application number.

What's the "amount in rupees" for?