Pakistan's Ideology and Identity crisis

[Drsomnath999]

i just found that on this site which states in apr 30 2014 but the video is from 2007
how pakistani women politicians get support

CHEERS

 

[bennedose]

Reworking the idea of Pakistan | The Indian Express | Page 99

Soon after Partition, Pakistan's founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah told the American ambassador, Paul Alling, that he wished for India-Pakistan relations to be "An association similar to that between the US and Canada." Jinnah had no way of predicting the rise of Pakistan's military-intelligence complex. Nor did he envision that his successors in the Muslim League would join Islamist leaders in basing Pakistan's nationalism on the idea of perennial conflict with, and permanent threat from, India. Just as the perceived threat from Hindu domination prompted the call for Pakistan's creation, the new rallying cry for an ethnically diverse populace was the ostensible threat from India to Pakistan.

This required keeping alive the frenzy of Partition and a contrived historic narrative. It also necessitated the glorification of past and present warriors and the building of a militarised state. Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru foresaw how a national state of paranoia across the border imperiled India-Pakistan relations. He tried to comfort Pakistan's leaders that disagreement with the idea of Partition before it took place did not mean India would now use force to undo it.

Nehru chose the Aligarh Muslim University, whose alumni had played an active role in the demand for Pakistan, as the venue for a speech that addressed Pakistani concerns as early as March 1948. He reassured those who accused India of seeking to strangulate Pakistan. "If we had wanted to break up Pakistan, why did we agree to Partition?" he asked. "It was easier to prevent it then than to try to do so now after all that has happened. There is no going back in history. As a matter of fact, it is to India's advantage that Pakistan should be a secure and prosperous state with which we can develop close and friendly relations."

"Pakistan has come into being rather unnaturally, I think," Nehru told his audience. "Nevertheless, it represents the urges of a large number of persons. I believe that this development has been a throwback, but we accepted it in good faith." According to him, "It is inevitable that India and Pakistan should draw closer to each other, or else they will come into conflict. There is no middle way, for we have known each other too long to be indifferent neighbours." The first Indian prime minister also laid out a vision for India to "develop a closer union" with Pakistan and other neighbouring countries — a vision that seems to be shared by Narendra Modi. But Nehru made it clear that India had no "desire to strangle or compel Pakistan" because "an attempt to disrupt Pakistan would recoil to India's disadvantage."

"If today, by any chance, I were offered the reunion of India and Pakistan, I would decline it for obvious reasons," Nehru continued. "I do not want to carry the burden of Pakistan's great problems. I have enough of my own." Nehru proposed that a "closer association must come out of a normal process and in a friendly way which does not end Pakistan as a state but which makes it an equal part of a larger union in which several countries might be associated" — an early envisioning of Saarc.

Bengali leader Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy also cautioned against declaring Pakistan an Islamist ideological state and warned that slogans of permanent war with India would only undermine Pakistan. Addressing Pakistan's constituent assembly on March 6, 1948, Suhrawardy insisted that Pakistan's future rested on the "the goodwill of the people" of Pakistan and the "mutual relationship between the Dominion of Pakistan and the sister dominion, [the] Indian Union."

Suhrawardy briefly served as prime minister in 1956 before being barred from politics under martial law. He died in exile a few years later. But his admonition, within a few months of Pakistan's creation, still rings true. "Now you are raising the cry of Pakistan in danger for the purpose of arousing Muslim sentiments and binding them together in order to maintain you in power," Suhrawardy told Pakistan's rulers. He warned that "a state which will be founded on sentiments, namely that of Islam in danger or of Pakistan in danger" will face perilous circumstances.

Most of Pakistan's current problems — the rise of the Taliban, the prevalence of conspiracy theories, religious and sectarian strife, the campaign by extremists to deny Pakistani children the benefit of the polio vaccine, the potential for international isolation, the lack of institutional balance and the dominance of the military — can all be traced to the original sin of Pakistan's post-independence leaders.

Pakistan's establishment has disregarded Muhammad Ali Jinnah's call to keep religion out of the business of the state and ignored Suhrawardy's proposal for collaborative ties with India. As Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif sets about trying to normalise relations with India, he would do well to revise the Pakistani notion of "permanent enemy", which is inculcated at all levels of schooling and through the Pakistani media. Sharif should recall Suhrawardy's warnings and embrace Jinnah's vision of India-Pakistan ties. He should start changing Pakistan's national discourse, without which forward movement might prove difficult.

The writer is director for South and Central Asia at the Hudson Institute in Washington DC. He served as Pakistan's ambassador to the US and is author, most recently, of 'Magnificent Delusions: Pakistan, the United States and an epic history of misunderstanding'

 

[arnabmit]

Must watch!!!

[video=youtube_share;G3DIOjTmX0M]http://youtu.be/G3DIOjTmX0M[/video]

 

[prohumanity]

Interesting ! Do Not forget the history. It's West who empowered and enabled Paki military to use against Russia and India for decades. Zia Ul Haq was a pet dog of West....recently...Musharaff was another Bush Dog.....Now, that India is getting strong and Pakistan has become terrorist state and is becoming a liaibility, West very quickly is changing its view and want everyone to forget the recent past.
Only, yesterday, Joker Kerry said "Pakistan is very very important country for US in South Asia....what does that mean? Very very important for WHAT ?
To be used against India, China, Russia and Iran ?

 

[Kaalapani]

Interesting ! Do Not forget the history. It's West who empowered and enabled Paki military to use against Russia and India for decades. Zia Ul Haq was a pet dog of West....recently...Musharaff was another Bush Dog.....Now, that India is getting strong and Pakistan has become terrorist state and is becoming a liaibility, West very quickly is changing its view and want everyone to forget the recent past.
Only, yesterday, Joker Kerry said "Pakistan is very very important country for US in South Asia....what does that mean? Very very important for WHAT ?
To be used against India, China, Russia and Iran ?

We need those kind of statements pakistan defence budget is around 11Billion .we want them to bankrupt themselves.

 

[BridgeSeller]

PAKI PERSIAN ROOTS READ&ENJOY

@ای ایران I believe you were wasting your time on them because there is compulsion not to accept it in open that goes against the idea of 'non-India' identity. Pakistan was created based on the Muslim identity only but Pakistanis found that its very insufficient to assert a non-Indian identity, so they try to look for non-India identity based on false perception o skin colour, claiming their ancestors were never Hindus but Buddhists, languages(how only 3% Indians similar to Pakistanis as how only 3% Indians speak Punjabi language) and even try to claim the difference from Indus valley civilization going back 5000 years in the past creating fake stories how people of Indus and Ganges were always different.


You are right. I am wasting my time on this forum by interacting with a horde of insecure losers, liars and intellectual weaklings.

I know what you mean also by Pakistanis. 10 or 15 years ago i remember it was really common for many of them to try and claim some kind of racial or ancestral relationship to the Middle East. Even today i still meet Pakistanis who will tell me that they have some connection to "Persia" or that "X" ancestor of them "came from Persia".

I can give you a recent example actually. About 2 months ago i was at a house party. A friend of a friend of mine was introduced to me, she was Bahraini. She was there with another girl who was Pakistani. The Pakistani asked me where i was from and when i told her i was Iranian she told me that she was also "Persian", but she didnt look Iranian to me at all. But i dont judge so i said to her salaam, chetori, khoob hasti? in typical Iranian small talk and then asked her chi kar mikoni and she just looked at me. So i then told her by the way dar landan be donya omadam pas farsiye man khoob nist choon ke man faghat ye kami farsi baladam and she just looked at me blankly again. So i asked her midooni? and she replied 'oh im Persian ...but from Pakistan'. She obviously didnt understand a word id said to her, and i was confused by her response.

So i was like, OK, do you know Farsi, and she said no. I asked her if she's been to Iran, she said no. I asked her are her parents from Iran, she said no. I asked her if her grandparents were from Iran, she said no, her 'ancestors' were. So i asked her where she's really from and it turned out that in truth she was from some 'Punjab', Pakistan.

Honestly, ive been through this many times before with Pakistanis. I even met a Pakistani before that told me he had "Greek blood" and that "many Pakistanis have Greek in them".

Such massive and insecure liars.

If its not "Persia" then its some Arab country or "Central Asia", lol. Anything but being Indian it seems which is what they actually are.

Yeah, you think the non-rhoticity of their Urdu is natural? It's a pathetic attempt at not-sounding like Indians and Hindi.

 

[Virendra]

That's calling a spade what it is - a spade.
--------------
Why the existence of Pakistan is not in India's interest » Indian Defence Review

Excerpts :
Pakistan has been a thorn in India's left side for 65 years, and amazingly, India has tolerated its pain and irritation, against most odds of human nature. After four wars and multiple proxy wars waged by Pakistan, it still doesn't count as much for India – a big elephant that is difficult to move. India's Pakistan policy practices restraint and constraint against an enemy that hates it, that was born in conflict against India in brutal bloodshed, and even now hopes one day to overcome a weak India.

Despite all the difficulties that Pakistan has faced and faces – internal political turmoil and terrorist threats, external issues in Afghanistan, an economy that is on the verge of collapse, and being condemned around the world for its export of terrorism – Pakistan still has the energy and gumption to promote proxy wars in India via Nepal, Bangladesh, and, of course, Kashmir. Which concept of rationality in the modern world can accept Pakistan's belligerent and incongruent worldview, at a time when the civilized world wishes peace and economic prosperity against a threatening climate, growing population, an oncoming oil crisis, and worldwide economic woes?
....
....

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Adux]

Old whore's have ideology?

 

[Neo]

Old whore's have ideology?

You should know, isn't India older than Pakistan?

 

[vppurushothaman]

Indian people like Pak people. So. Terrorism blocking there links and thoughts

Sent from my LG-D686 using Tapatalk

 

[Adux]

You should know, isn't India older than Pakistan?

I dont, Unlike Pakistan, India is not exhibited whore like tendencies.

 

[Neo]

I dont, Unlike Pakistan, India is not exhibited whore like tendencies.

In bed with Russia, USA, France, UK and now Japan...
I would say 'Top ki Randi'.

 

[Adux]

In bed with Russia, USA, France, UK and now Japan...
I would say 'Top ki Randi'.

This above is Paki Logic.
Glad to see, you are no different than the rest of Pakistani's.
Unlike you we have state to state relationships, we dont have state to ass ----ing relationships you have with US , China and Saudi Arabia.
Pakistan is the MAAEIR, of world

 

[Neo]

This above is Paki Logic.
Glad to see, you are no different than the rest of Pakistani's.
Unlike you we have state to state relationships, we dont have state to ass ----ing relationships you have with US , China and Saudi Arabia.
Pakistan is the MAAEIR, of world

Aap karein to dance, hum karein to mujra.

Yet another proof of Indians being delusional.

 

[Adux]

Aap karein to dance, hum karein to mujra.

Yet another proof of Indians being delusional.

You must be the idiot of the highest order, and has no place here, if you believe there is even a comparison. Our Governments are not decided by outside powers, our strategic interest are not for sale, we dont beg for aid nor do we capitulate in front of some arab deity.
Our Prime Minsiters are not deposed by Military, Hillary Clinton dont come to India and give lecture on aid. We are not known in the world as a terrorist scumbag of a nation

Our economic numbers are not taken out of somebody ass.

 

[Neo]

You must be the idiot of the highest order, and has no place here, if you believe there is even a comparison. Our Governments are not decided by outside powers, our strategic interest are not for sale, we dont beg for aid nor do we capitulate in front of some arab deity.
Our Prime Minsiters are not deposed by Military, Hillary Clinton dont come to India and give lecture on aid. We are not known in the world as a terrorist scumbag of a nation

Our economic numbers are not taken out of somebody ass.

I could give a matching reply but I have no interest or time to bash India or to proof that India recieved more aid between 2009-2012 than Pakistan.

Good day!

 

[ladder]

Aap karein to dance, hum karein to mujra.

Yet another proof of Indians being delusional.

Wahi toh Janab. Hira mandi me dance to mujra hi kahalaiga na. National auditorium me karo na.

Hope you understand the forums for which I have used Hira mandi and National auditorium as metaphors.

 

[Neo]

Wahi toh Janab. Hira mandi me dance to mujra hi kahalaiga na. National auditorium me karo na.

Hope you understand the forums for which I have used Hira mandi and National auditorium as metaphors.

Heera Mundi was destroyed by Zia-ul-Haq in mid eightees and no longer exists.

 

[ladder]

Heera Mundi was destroyed by Zia-ul-Haq in mid eightees and no longer exists.

Really? All the dancers/ ****** simply vanished isn't it? None from recent times have produced documentary on the constituents of erstwhile Hira Mandi right?

Everything banned in Pakistan comes out with a new name or as a nameless entity, why would Hira Mandi be any different.


BTW, I used Hira Mandi as a metaphor, I had stated that explicitly.

Though, I am ready to debate on Hira Mandi, if you so wish.

 

[thethinker]

"Our generosity has only emboldened Pakistan's military clique--that clique that actually rules the country, that clique that gave refuge to Osama bin Laden.

Most importantly, Pakistan has not been acting as our friend--not just that clique, but the government itself of Pakistan; and we don't need to be supplementing the countries and supporting the countries and giving aid to the countries that are hostile to America's interests and hateful of our way of life.

It is a charade to believe that our aid is buying Pakistan's cooperation in hunting down terrorists, as Secretary Kerry stated yesterday. Frankly, that is wishful thinking, but that is not facing the reality of what we confront in South Asia." - Rep. Dana Rohrabacher in the US House of Representatives on March 14, 2014."