Pakistan's air force acquires 13 F-16s from Jordan.

[angeldude13]

When it comes to efficiency, we're the uncrowned champions of Asia.

Despite a much smaller economy and industry and immense international obstacles we have maintained military balance in almost every field.

No you ain't.
I remember pakis claiming that there missile never fails and all that bullsh8t but then we got too know the truth when that gauri missile Deviated from it's path.
Actually all your institution are nothing but a bunch of loud mouths who over exaggerate there capabilities.

 

[p2prada]

I won't deny that but my argument stands that used F-16's with mlu3 are a very costeffective solution tor PAF.

The addition of these F-16s won't really change equations. PAF was stronger in the 90s and early 2000s. Now it is simply a matter of us outspending you by a huge margin.

The Mirage-2000 upgrade itself will push us way past your air force's technical capabilities. Mig-29s already come with internal AESA jammers. We have the notion that even Mig-29UPG comes with sensor fusion based on Mig-35's base technologies. Only the AESA radar will be missing with a few other Mig-35 specific components like IRST. Even the new Jaguar upgrades are better than what your F-16s are getting in the MLUs. And we aren't even talking about Rafale, Super MKI and FGFA.

I mean, if you focused on things like being cost-effective rather than acquiring actual capabilities that can counter us, then we have nothing to be worried about.

 

[Neo]

No you ain't.
I remember pakis claiming that there missile never fails and all that bullsh8t but then we got too know the truth when that gauri missile Deviated from it's path.
Actually all your institution are nothing but a bunch of loud mouths who over exaggerate there capabilities.

Wow, you're such an eye opener with deep insight!
I better get my prozac now, I feel depressed and a total loser.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Wow, you're such an eye opener with deep insight!
I better get my prozac now, I feel depressed and a total loser.

@Neo China's J10 is proclaimed as good fighter on par with western fighters, why you people went for F16's??

 

[Neo]

The addition of these F-16s won't really change equations. PAF was stronger in the 90s and early 2000s. Now it is simply a matter of us outspending you by a huge margin.

The Mirage-2000 upgrade itself will push us way past your air force's technical capabilities. Mig-29s already come with internal AESA jammers. We have the notion that even Mig-29UPG comes with sensor fusion based on Mig-35's base technologies. Only the AESA radar will be missing with a few other Mig-35 specific components like IRST. Even the new Jaguar upgrades are better than what your F-16s are getting in the MLUs. And we aren't even talking about Rafale, Super MKI and FGFA.

I mean, if you focused on things like being cost-effective rather than acquiring actual capabilities that can counter us, then we have nothing to be worried about.

Agree om M2K upgrade, its far better than mlu3. But an odd 100 F-16's with mlu3 is still a netter option to replace olderst Mirages now than to wait for new jets to come. We do not have the luxury to spend every dollar on military on one-on-one base with IAF but due to costeffictive purchases like these 13 F-16's, we have taken another good and wise step in the right direction.

JF-17 already is getting new toys like powerful ECM and DRFM and will get Aesa soon.
FC-20 is still in the picture and will be PAF's last conventional platform before going stealth in 2017/18.

PAF will continue to be a defencive force with enough strength to guard and defend the eastern border.

 

[Neo]

@Neo China's J10 is proclaimed as good fighter on par with western fighters, why you people went for F16's??

PAF will continue to operate 450-600 fighter jets.

250 JFT and 100 F-16's leave us with only 350 fighters.
So we ordered the FC-20 which will become our main fighter against IAF

 

[Sridhar]

This deal is good for Jordan as they will replace their old with New ones from Netherlands.

 

[Neo]

This deal is good for Jordan as they will replace their old with New ones from Netherlands.

Why don't you open a new thread to celebrate instead of going off topic

 

[ladder]

PAF will continue to operate 450-600 fighter jets.

250 JFT and 100 F-16's leave us with only 350 fighters.
So we ordered the FC-20 which will become our main fighter against IAF

Let for example year 2020. What shall be ideal mixture and 2025 what shall be the composition?

 

[Neo]

Let for example year 2020. What shall be ideal mixture and 2025 what shall be the composition?

250-300 JF-17 (4-5 blocks)
100-120 F-16C/D (block 52 or equal)
100-120 FC-20 MMRCA
36-48 Stealth Fighters

12 ZDK-03
3 IL-78 Midas Tanker
2 / 8 Y-20 Tanker / Heavy Lift

 

[ladder]

250-300 JF-17 (4-5 blocks)
100-120 F-16C/D (block 52 or equal)
100-120 FC-20 MMRCA
36-48 Stealth Fighters

12 ZDK-03
3 IL-78 Midas Tanker
2 / 8 Y-20 Tanker / Heavy Lift

And now please calculate the capital expenditure per yr for the list.

 

[Neo]

And now please calculate the expenditure per yr for the list.

Its not possible to calculate the expenditures since China privides heavy subsidies on military purchases and the F-16's will be obtained trough EDA programme.

Stealts will come around $100-120m per jet, infrastructure and training might take a other billion $.
Costs of ZDK and Y-20 is unknown.

 

[sayareakd]

What nuclear subs? How many have you inducted, how many armed ssn are operational in IN?
Our current missile arsenal covers more than 90% of your territory and Tipu with a range of 4.000-4.500km is ready to be tested.

MM Singh practically begged Bush to block sale of block 52 to PAF says enough about PAF's ability to counter IAF.

We have INS chakra as nuke sub.
we dont beg, that is your countries habit. We have refused two of their fighter in tender. Cant help you guys for the lies fed to your citizens generation after generation. Latest is loss of AWACs by PAF.

Any way lets back to topic.

 

[ladder]

Mate, for F-16's I will haveto refer you to - F-16. net - since I get most of my information from insides and can not/wil not reveal names or data which is meant for me only. PAF is not very open when it comes to numbers and stats. Whatever information i released, lands on F-16.net (btw not run by Pakistan).

During 2013 China helped us to expand the PAC production facility but afaik all JF-17's are being funded locally hence the decrease in 2014's pojected production (8-10 units only). Block 2 and 3 also being funded in and by Pakistan only.

Its not possible to calculate the expenditures since China privides heavy subsidies on military purchases and the F-16's will be obtained trough EDA programme.

Stealts will come around $100-120m per jet, infrastructure and training might take a other billion $.
Costs of ZDK and Y-20 is unknown.

Choose between the two above statements.

When I asked about $850 loan from China the first quote was your answer, and for question for total expenditure per yr. second quote is your answer.

And when asked about cost of F-16's you are getting and cost of MLU, you have/ had no figurative answer.

So, either provide a constructive answer on the list and capacity to spend or the list you provided will be treated as a wish list which every Tom Dick and Harry from Pakistan proposes.

 

[sayareakd]

What nuclear subs? How many have you inducted, how many armed ssn are operational in IN?
Our current missile arsenal covers more than 90% of your territory and Tipu with a range of 4.000-4.500km is ready to be tested.

MM Singh practically begged Bush to block sale of block 52 to PAF says enough about PAF's ability to counter IAF.

We have INS chakra as nuke sub.
we dont beg, that is your countries habit. We have refused two of their fighter in tender. Cant help you guys for the lies fed to your citizens generation after generation. Latest is loss of AWACs by PAF.

Any way lets back to topic.
Now another question as these fighters are purchased from Jordan will it be subject to regular inspection and all the sanctions as in case of other F16s ?

 

[Neo]

Choose between the two above statements.

When I asked about $850 loan from China the first quote was your answer, and for question for total expenditure per yr. second quote is your answer.

And when asked about cost of F-16's you are getting and cost of MLU, you have/ had no figurative answer.

So, either provide a constructive answer on the list and capacity to spend or the list you provided will be treated as a wish list which every Tom Dick and Harry from Pakistan proposes.

Treat it whatever way you want. It will not change the fact that our military expenditure has never been transparant and it will not change in near future.
Don't ask me hypothetical questions and question my credibility.

 

[Neo]

We have INS chakra as nuke sub.
we dont beg, that is your countries habit. We have refused two of their fighter in tender. Cant help you guys for the lies fed to your citizens generation after generation. Latest is loss of AWACs by PAF.

Any way lets back to topic.
Now another question as these fighters are purchased from Jordan will it be subject to regular inspection and all the sanctions as in case of other F16s ?

Chakra carries conventional weapons, no nukes.

Regarding begging rants, read mu post again which said that MM Singh practically begged Bush to block sale of block 52 F-16's to Pakistan.

And why on earth would you mention the lost Awacs???

 

[ladder]

Treat it whatever way you want. It will not change the fact that our military expenditure has never been transparant and it will not change in near future.
Don't ask me hypothetical questions and question my credibility.

Because some official states that JF-17 can go beyond block 3/4/5 doesn't mean it surely will, but what he means is it( JF-17) can.

In one post you write JF-17 is internally funded ( Chinese loan was only for capacity building) and on other you state Chinese gives heavy subsidy ( discussion in-context of JF-17 ) so, you are contradicting yourself.

And if anyone questions the first question that would question come to mind, it becomes hypothetical isn't it?
Demonstration of capacity to spend is a hypothetical question?

If Pakistani military spending is so opaque, then how did you surely stated the $850 million ( btw it was in 2011 and not 2013) was for capacity building and not funding for block-1 JFT?

You, yourself are creating a big question mark over your own credibility.

 

[sayareakd]

Chakra carries conventional weapons, no nukes.

Regarding begging rants, read mu post again which said that MM Singh practically begged Bush to block sale of block 52 F-16's to Pakistan.

And why on earth would you mention the lost Awacs???

If we use Chakra with nukes who will know. Can you make cry when we usenuclear tarpedo or club missile against you.

 

[Neo]

Now another question as these fighters are purchased from Jordan will it be subject to regular inspection and all the sanctions as in case of other F16s ?

Yes, all fighters purchased from
The US are subject to inspection.
It has always been that way.