Pakistanis Claiming Vedic Civilisation As Ancient Pakistan, Need To Counter It

[Raja.pakistani]

Pakistanis know that their ancestors were majorly Hindus but due to Islam factor they don't acknowledge it. .

You are saying this in topic lol

Pakistanis Claiming Vedic Civilisation As Ancient Pakistan, Need To Counter It

 

[Raja.pakistani]

Where did I say I want to convert Muslims or have any enmity? I am just giving logical explanation to the questions you mentioned above.

Hinduism does not award death for apostasy. So, Hindus should keep converting to Islam while the Mullahs can frighten them with sword so that there is no conversion back. It is funny when a Muslim claims religious freedom based on personal beliefs and experience!

If you are content with your personal religious belief and feel satisfied with your personal relationship with your God then it dont matter what world or people say about your religion and then it also dont matter what was the religion or religious beliefs of ancestors thousand year ago. Its not funny there are many Muslims who keep atheist or agnostics beliefs as no one can go in your hearts to find your beliefs in order to punish you for apostasy. If thas was the case then wife of Jinnah was parsi but he was very liberal but still quiad and leader of all Muslims of sub continent

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

If you are content with your personal religious belief and feel satisfied with your personal relationship with your God then it dont matter what world or people say about your religion and then it also dont matter what was the religion or religious beliefs of ancestors thousand year ago. Its not funny there are many Muslism who keep athesit or agnostics beliefs as no one can go in your hearts to find your beliefs in order to punish you for apostasy. If thas was the case then wife of Jinnah was parsi but he was very liberal but still quiad and leader of all Muslims of sub continent

Haha. Bring on more Taqiya!

Muslims who keep atheist or agnostic faith can hide their faith because it is convenient and will not be punished! Such a liberal belief system. If others think that you should be killed for your belief change then it definitely matters what others think.

Muslims men are praised if they marry women from other faiths so nothing new about Jinnah!

 

[Raja.pakistani]

Haha. Bring on more Taqiya!

Muslims who keep atheist or agnostic faith can hide their faith because it is convenient and will not be punished! Such a liberal belief system. If others think that you should be killed for your belief change then it definitely matters what others think.

Muslims men are praised if they marry women from other faiths so nothing new about Jinnah!

You are really expert of Muslims or Islam lol
How many people got killed so far in crime of apostasy? any relevant statistics would be great?

So you think Muslim men getting praise if they marry with kafir women then it would make Muslim very liberal and open mind if they accept kafirs as wives .

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You are really expert of Muslims or Islam lol
How many people got killed so far in crime of apostasy? any relevant statistics would be great?

So you think Muslim men getting praise if they marry with kafir women then it would make Muslim very liberal and open mind if they accept kafirs as wives .

I am definitely an expert.

Now about statistics. Presence of apostasy death is itself enough to deter people from apostasy. So there is no way to get real statistic because apostasy is low given the fear. But there are enough attacks on apostates and declaration of bounty on their heads by Muslim clerics. If apostasy does not help Islam then there is no need for death penalty for apostasy as a policy. That itself explains the usefulness!

Now coming to liberalism. If Muslims would allow marriage of their women to other faiths as well then they would be truly called liberal. But as I said it is a one-way street with no reconversion back from Islam and no marriage of muslim woman to non-muslim man. So, muslims are not liberal at all!

 

[Raja.pakistani]

I am definitely an expert.

Now about statistics. Presence of apostasy death is itself enough to deter people from apostasy. So there is no way to get real statistic because apostasy is low given the fear. But there are enough attacks on apostates and declaration of bounty on their heads by Muslim clerics. If apostasy does not help Islam then there is no need for death penalty for apostasy as a policy. That itself explains the usefulness!

Now coming to liberalism. If Muslims would allow marriage of their women to other faiths as well then they would be truly called liberal. But as I said it is a one-way street with no reconversion back from Islam and no marriage of Muslim woman to non-Muslim man. So, Muslims are not liberal at all!

You are not expert my friends. You see you did not bring a single incident where punishment was given for apostasy and we all know there are all sort of Muslims in there from liberal to moderate to extremist. People keep their religious belief in their hearts and they don't advertise it . Commitment of people for their religion vary from person to person and its true for people from all religion. Secondly we are discussing Islam here and according to Islam if Muslim man marry with kafirs or polytheist women is as much wrong as if a Muslim women marry kafirs or polytheist guy . Islam is strict about touheedi.e oness of Allah so there is no freedom when it come to marriage with those who associate partners with God. Some Muslim men or women does this is another point as that's is their personal choice or freedom of going against their religion

we are diverting the topic

 

[Rowdy]

Btw Kafir is someone who has given the message of Islam and he know what Islam is and then reject this message after knowing.

Ohh Thats me.... .... (30 characters )

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You are not expert my friends. You see you did not bring a single incident where punishment was given for apostasy and we all know there are all sort of Muslims in there from liberate to moderate to extremist. People keep their religious belief in their hearts and they don't advertise it . Commitment of people for their religion vary from person to person and its true for people from all religion. Secondly we are discussing Islam here and according to Islam if Muslim man marry with kafirs or polytheist women is as much wrong as if a Muslim women marry kafirs or polytheist guy . Islam is strict about touheedi.e oness of Allah so there is no freedom when it come to marriage with those who associate partners with God. Some Muslim men or women does this is another point as that's is their personal choice or freedom of going against their religion

we are diverting the topic

Just some examples:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...Mauritania-for-apostasy-Judicial-source-.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ostasy-in-Saudi-Arabia-after-ripping-up-Koran

Muslims man marry non-muslim woman after they are forced to convert to Islam. So there is complete freedom to do this. Ofcourse, muslim women cannot relinquish Islam due to Islam and hence one-way street!

 

[Raja.pakistani]

Just some examples:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...Mauritania-for-apostasy-Judicial-source-.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...ostasy-in-Saudi-Arabia-after-ripping-up-Koran

Muslims man marry non-muslim woman after they are forced to convert to Islam. So there is complete freedom to do this. Ofcourse, muslim women cannot relinquish Islam due to Islam and hence one-way street!

Acha according to my knowledge wife of Jinnah was parsi even after married. did shah rukh khan converted gori into Islam? did amir khan did this? and again stupid to think that men or women cannot accept Islam willingly so if some women or men do convert then it will be always forced conversion by Indian logic

and now you did jump from apostasy to blasphemy. You dont believe in your religion don't mean you should go for cursing/insulting or ripping up your religious scriptures openly

 

[Raja.pakistani]

Ohh Thats me.... .... (30 characters )

kafir did recognise himself/herself

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Acha according to my knowledge wife of Jinnah was parsi even after married. did shah rukh khan converted gori into Islam? did amir khan did this? and again stupid to think that men or women cannot accept Islam willingly so if some women or men do convert then it will be always forced conversion by Indian logic

and now you did jump from apostasy to blasphemy. You dont believe in your religion don't mean you should go for cursing/insulting or ripping up your religious scriptures openly

If someone doesn't believe a stupid religion he can do anything he wants. Apostasy and blasphemy go hand in hand. You are saying that these guys would not have been hanged if they were just apostates. Another example:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27433241

"Dr Meriam Yahya Ibrahim was condemned to hang for allegedly leaving Islam and marrying a Christian man."

 

[Raja.pakistani]

If someone doesn't believe a stupid religion he can do anything he wants. Apostasy and blasphemy go hand in hand. You are saying that these guys would not have been hanged if they were just apostates. Another example:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27433241

"Dr Meriam Yahya Ibrahim was condemned to hang for allegedly leaving Islam and marrying a Christian man."

so will you allow Indian people to ripping up the hindu or sikh scriptures openly without arresting them?

Put some sense in your head. If you leave your religion dont give you this freedom to mock or insult it in front of those who put firm believe in it

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

so will you allow Indian people to ripping up the hindu or sikh scriptures openly without arresting them?

Put some sense in your head. If you leave your religion dont give you this freedom to mock or insult it in front of those who put firm believe in it

There are enough people who do that in India. But the difference is that they are not given death punishment for it. India does not follow barbaric and middle age laws.

Finally you are revealing your true herd mentality.

 

[Screambowl]

Not really. There was no India or indian citenzenship at that time and there were many independent states with different cultures, beliefs, languages etc

There are historic documents which have a good and solid evidence of it. Even during the princely states and kingdoms, name Bharat existed.

Even the Vedas mention about Bharat.

Vishnu Purana accounts the extent of Bharatavarsha,

उत्तरं यत्समुद्रस्य हिमाद्रेश्चैव दक्षिणम् ।
वर्षं तद् भारतं नाम भारती यत्र संततिः ।।

uttaraṃ yatsamudrasya himādreścaiva dakṣiṇamvarṣaṃ tadbhārataṃ nāma bhāratī yatra santatiḥ

"The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains is called Bhāratam; there dwell the descendants of Bharata."

 

[Raja.pakistani]

There are historic documents which have a good and solid evidence of it. Even during the princely states and kingdoms, name Bharat existed.

Even the Vedas mention about Bharat.

Vishnu Purana accounts the extent of Bharatavarsha,

उत्तरं यत्समुद्रस्य हिमाद्रेश्चैव दक्षिणम् ।
वर्षं तद् भारतं नाम भारती यत्र संततिः ।।

uttaraṃ yatsamudrasya himādreścaiva dakṣiṇamvarṣaṃ tadbhārataṃ nāma bhāratī yatra santatiḥ

"The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains is called Bhāratam; there dwell the descendants of Bharata."

Yea and it included Pakistan, Bangldesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Indonesia,Afghanistan..but as said before exclusive ownership just belong to those live in modern India and hold Indian nationality ? Indian guy live in mizoram or in south india have more claim on IVC than say a Punjabi Pakistani..

 

[Raja.pakistani]

There are enough people who do that in India. But the difference is that they are not given death punishment for it. India does not follow barbaric and middle age laws.

Finally you are revealing your true herd mentality.

Read your constitution

Section 153(A
Section 153A of the penal code says,[3] inter alia:

Whoever (a) by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence, language, caste or community or any other ground whatsoever, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, or (b) commits any act which is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility, . . . shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.
Section 295(A)
Section 295(A) of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) enacted in 1927[4] says:[5]

Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of [citizens of India], [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to [three years], or with fine, or with both.

I guess i shroud put you on my ignore list

Good night all

 

[Screambowl]

Yea and it included Pakistan, Bangldesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Indonesia,Afghanistan..but as said before exclusive ownership just belong to those live in modern India and hold Indian nationality ? Indian guy live in mizoram or in south india have more claim on IVC than say a Punjabi Pakistani..

Don't do rogue arguments. Exclusive ownership of Islam goes to Arabs then and ownership of the language you speak urdu goes to us. And FYI Mahabharata was fought in Haryana, Indraprastha was a part of Vedic Civilisation, which is now called as Delhi.

What you have are just sites and remains, we have similar in gujrat. Ownership is for those who follows it and appreciates it. Unlike those who make arabs their masters and follow Sharia a product of Arab culture and Non Vedic

 

[Mad Indian]

Read your constitution

Section 153(A
Section 153A of the penal code says,[3] inter alia:

Whoever (a) by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence, language, caste or community or any other ground whatsoever, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, or (b) commits any act which is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility, . . . shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.
Section 295(A)
Section 295(A) of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) enacted in 1927[4] says:[5]

Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of [citizens of India], [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to [three years], or with fine, or with both.

I guess i shroud put you on my ignore list

Good night all

How pitiful that living in UK cant change a Paki . But I am glad that it is this way. Pakis and Britshits - marriage made in heaven.

Read the links you yourself post first. Where does it say death sentence for insulting any holy book?

 

[argumentum]

Lol you are wrong my friend if you think recognising your past or pre-Islamic history/heritage mean to practising what your non Muslim ancestors did thousand year ago. Its called pre-Islamic period for some reason. Even Hindus don't practise what their ancestors did practised during vedic time lol If suppose your son convert into Islam tomorrow then he will remain your son but he will be the follower of Islam..no? You cannoy say that he is not your son just because he change his religious beliefs. Religion is just one identity and you have different other identities i.e ur tribe/ethnicity/culture/lanaguge etc

I didn't say they'd return to "practicing" the pre-Islamic religion, I said it would open their eyes to a greater world of philosophy & thought. The problem with Islam and Christianity is that they claim to be a solution for everything, to have the answer to every question .. you don't need anything else.

Monotheism doesn't mean "one god", it means "one religion". It claims that one way of looking at the world is true, and all others are false or at least incomplete without it's own book and it's own prophet.

Polytheism doesn't mean "many gods", it means "many religions". Within Indian philosophy, for example, there are atheistic strains, agnostic strains, some that exalt one god, others that exalt many. I myself am an atheist, so I don't "practice" any religion, but there is no contradiction in being an atheist and a hindu/jain/buddhist. I say there are no gods, but if you think there's one or more, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

I actually don't think most pakistanis are "ashamed" of their "jahiliya" ancestors, I think they are afraid. Afraid to confront what "one god, one prophet, one book" is doing to your country, and others, not just in the past, but to this day. For goodness sake, to get a Pakistani passport you have to declare a small peaceful sect of your own compatriots to be non-muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ahmadis

At least in India, you don't have to worry about what type of Muslim you are. Your country is self-destructing, and your here talking about "multiple identities" and making excuses for things like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-29893809

Maybe its time to start looking for answers outside the smothering embrace of Islam.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Read your constitution

Section 153(A
Section 153A of the penal code says,[3] inter alia:

Whoever (a) by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence, language, caste or community or any other ground whatsoever, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, or (b) commits any act which is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility, . . . shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both.
Section 295(A)
Section 295(A) of the Indian Penal Code (IPC) enacted in 1927[4] says:[5]

Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feelings of any class of [citizens of India], [by words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise], insults or attempts to insult the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to [three years], or with fine, or with both.

I guess i shroud put you on my ignore list

Good night all

Now three years of imprisonment is same as death penalty!

Put me on ignore list or my arguments will show you the truth!