Pakistani develops technology to run vehicles on water

rock127

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Its the Oil politics that prevent such innovations, If Cars starting to Run on Water ( Distil Water ) Who will buy Oil from Middleastern Countries, The whole World depends on Oil and it comes from them mainly..

There is just too many lives depends on Oil industry..
Govs dont want to disappoint them..

Not sweet water..
I think we have heard the same "car running from water" news from India as well, dont know what happened later on.

The OIL mafia would wipe off any such invention for sure.The sheikhs would go back in the stone age hoarding camels/goats. :lol:
 

Bangalorean

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While we're on the topic of pseudoscience in the land of the pure, here is something I read about a few months back, not sure if it was posted here:

How to spot the crackpot — pseudoscience in Pakistan – The Express Tribune

A recent physics thesis, which resulted in the award of a PhD degree by the University of Balochistan, has stirred some controversy. Guided by a "HEC meritorious professor", and with publications paid for by the HEC, it was entitled "A quantitative study on chromotherapy". Several notable Pakistani physicists, who actually know their subject, said the thesis was nonsensical. But after months of trying they still failed to convince the HEC. As a last-ditch effort, I sent a copy to physics Nobel Prize winner (1979), Steven Weinberg, and another to the physics Nobel Prize winner (1988), Jack Steinberger.
Weinberg wrote a point by point criticism which ended up saying: "I am appalled by what I have seen. The thesis shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of physics. This thesis is not only unworthy of a PhD, it is positively dangerous, since it might lead patients with severe illnesses to rely on 'chromotherapy' rather than on scientific medicine. I find it difficult to understand how this thesis could have earned its author any academic degree".
Steinberger was equally shocked: "A reasonable physics department should not have accepted anything like this work"¦. Following world news this past decade, I have been very unhappy about the Pakistani political instability and social problems, but I had imagined that its cultural level was better than what I now see."
Here is the actual thesis, in case any of you want to bang your heads against the wall: http://prr.hec.gov.pk/Thesis/373S.pdf

Here is an extract from the thesis:

DEDICATED TO
KHAWAJA SHAMSUDDIN AZEEMI,
Spiritual Scholar and author of 35 books on Metaphysics including Colour Therapy, Parapsychology, Qalander Consciousness and 'Art & Science of Sufi Meditation', presented in scientific manner encouraged me to explore the realms of Light and Colour..

We conjecture that color is a quantum state of matter. There are other quantum states such as charm, beauty, flavor, tenderness, etc. These quantum states are linked with each other via 'glueons' and form intermediatory energy fields known as 'quarks'. Quarks, if condensed, produce bosons, a fifth state of matter.
You realize you are part of the hologram of life, surrounded by an aura or energy field that radiates distinct colour and vibrations. The aura fingertips your soul and reflects your goodness, wellness, mental stability, maturity, emotional/inner turmoil or peaceful fulfillment. More of each of these qualities, peace, wellness, stability, maturity and fulfillment may become your ever present precious possession by the application of colour's power in our daily living
By using clay, a clay pot is repaired and piece of cloth mends a doll made of cloth, the plastic is used to repair the articles of plasic, then why light and colours cannot be used for the human health care which is the origin of man's creation. The holy scriptures say that existence of man is based upon various types of lights and colours. Then why a human being cannot be treated with colours?
Why indeed?

Let us remember that this is a physics PhD thesis, and not a religious discourse. Amazing, what?
 
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geoBR

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How to make water suffer "combustion"? This is the question. I do not think this is possible. The water vapor does not generate enough calories to move a motor unless us to place a boiler in automobiles, which is not an issue.

This is an illusion! :mad:

I dont believe that is true. If nor the most advanced centers of cars' industries on USA, Europe or Japan were capable to launch engines water-fueled, then why it should be the backward Paki that made it?

BTW, I think water as a fuel for cars is a bad idea. We are already passing by a world water crisis only to supply the demands of agriculture, industry and people. If water becomes engines' fuel, this crisis will worse much more, maybe causing wars between countries as the oil does today.
 

IBSA

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Its the Oil politics that prevent such innovations, If Cars starting to Run on Water ( Distil Water ) Who will buy Oil from Middleastern Countries, The whole World depends on Oil and it comes from them mainly..

There is just too many lives depends on Oil industry..
Govs dont want to disappoint them..
I dont think oil industries are opposite to innovations on cars. Why oil industry should cut out technology development if they can profit with it? Some experts says the same for ethanol: which it threaten the gas marketing. But here in Brazil ethanol approx. 50% of cars running with ethanol than gas, however PETROBRAS, our oil company, continues being the biggest company of country, and sells ethanol in their gas stations even.

Tendency of oil industries is diversify themselves and become energy companies. Oil is each time more bad seen due the pollution that it causes, and clean energy forms each time most valuated. Oil companys can invest on clean and renewable energy to better their image.

I think they can do the same with water engine. They can buy this technology and profit with it, instead crush it.
 

ani82v

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The water car fraud – The Express Tribune

By Pervez Hoodbhoy

The writer received his bachelor degrees in electrical engineering and mathematics, as well as masters and Ph.D degrees, from MIT

Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves a medal from the people of Pakistan for his great service to the nation. In a few short days, he has exposed just how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion. No practical joker could have demonstrated more dramatically the true nature of our country's political leaders, popular TV anchors and famed scientists.

At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur's polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a 'water kit' enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn't matter that the rest of world couldn't extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.

Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah :laugh:. Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the 'water fuel kit project'.

The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad's invention, Pakistan's image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man's life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.

Pakistan's most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: "jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai" (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: "Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai" (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved) :taunt::taunt: . The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: "hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha" (we had some work done on this too).:toilet:

So, what is the problem? It's that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad's 'water kit', if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.

To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman, a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.

The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here's how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the 'water kit' contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.

But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin's magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.
 
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ani82v

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Taken from physics forum

2H2 (g) + O2 (g) --> 2 H2O (l)
ΔG = -474.26 kJ under standard conditions.

2 H2O (l) --> 2H2 (g) + O2 (g)
ΔG = +474.26 kJ under standard conditions.


When you break the bonds in the water molecule you form Hydrogen and Oxygen gas (H2 and O2). These gasses can be recombined by burning them to re-form water.
You will not get extra energy out of burning the Hydrogen to reform water. The best you could do is just reclaim the energy one originally put into splitting the water, but actually you cannot even do this good since you will also loose some energy to heat.

Water-powered car?

.
 

Bangalorean

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It is a matter of national shame when a whole country, from the Prime minister down to silly youtube teenagers, all of them fall for a stupid prank like this. I remember Indians falling for Ramar Pillai and his "herbal petrol" in the 1990s, but we were somewhat more intelligent - at least we got a bunch of IIT professors to verify his claim and eventually expose him.

The best part is the Pakis planning to "save his life from Western oil companies". :pound:
 

Singh

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Bad Science


Charlatans, quacks and scammers in Pakistan are not a new phenomenon. Witch doctors, black magic practitioners, and herbal healers have long been a part of society, offering ways to cure a disease, get revenge on your mother-in-law or to improve sexual prowess.

These days, however, classical physics is being brutally murdered on television in Pakistan, in front of millions, even if only a few of them care about Science. The laws of conservation of energy, the laws of thermodynamics, basic human intelligence and rationality have been brought to the guillotine. The sentence was carried out by a team of 'engineers' from Khairpur, talk show hosts, their production teams and unscientifically leaning 'renowned scientists' brought as expert commentators.

'Engineer' Agha Waqar and his team have invented the magic pill which will solve all the world's – but first Pakistan's energy problems. Lo, and behold, the 'water kit'! It has already got the nod of approval from a few ministers, a 'report' of some sort is due in two weeks on it and the heads of the Pakistan Council of Scientific; and Industrial Research and Pakistan Science Foundation are believers too.

The 'Engineer' behind the revolution has already told us that like any patriot, he has refused huge monetary 'offers' from various countries (names thrown in for greater effect at times), that he has come to the public without securing any patent because he wants to use it for public good, that he surely feels threatened by the global oil and gas lobby, that he can modify that 'water kit' for use on all things (yes, railway engines included) and that revolution is ready to be commercialised. No peer reviewed journals, no scientific method – it works.

Ludicrous Claims

The 'Engineer' claimed the following about his revolutionary 'water kit':
● An ordinary car cover a distance of 40km on a single liter of water
● An ordinary motorcycle cover a distance of 150km on a single liter of water
● A 1kVA generator can be run for upto 2 hours using a single liter of water (thereby producing, at ordinary power factors, ~1.5kW-h of energy)

Various conflicting claims made in between on three TV shows ranged from:

● The 'water kit' can be used on any kind of water
● Distilled or bottled water should be used
● Electrolysis is done using the car battery
● Electrolysis is done using a separate battery that can be recharged by the car's alternator
● Electrolysis takes up anywhere between 1 per cent to very little of the battery's peak amperage and does not drain the battery
● Electrolysis takes half the power that an ordinary car stereo takes
● Electrodes used are capacitors separated by a dielectric
● The 'bubbler' controls flow of gases
● The modified ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) burns 'HHO'
● The hydrogen produced from electrolysis can be stored and is produced at a rate good enough that constant production is not necessary and hence battery drain not an issue
● The gas mixture used in the engine is called 'HHO' and is more efficient as a fuel than anything known to mankind
● The combustion of hydrogen is twice as heat efficient as high octane gasoline and the car can reach a top speed twice that it would on gasoline
● The car can reach it's top speed on 'water kit' and is not held back like CNG

The cost of this revolution: Around Rs. 40,000 for a passenger car. He did not forget to mention that he had to take loans of around Rs 15 million to 'develop' the 'water kit'.

As much as the 'Engineer' believed in his device, I believe most certainly that visible stupidity and the quackest of quack science do not necessitate rebuttals. If anyone were to suggest that he or she had found a radical cure to cancer or AIDS: the use of four strong punches on the affected portion with knuckles covered in rice paper, it would not require a scientific rebuttal. The Law of Conservation of Energy really cannot be challenged by a water filter with electrodes attached to a rubber tube. But since the 'magar gaari toh chalti hai' argument was being made again and again on TV, it seems like this does require some form of rebuttal.

Here are some quick comments on some of the claims made:

● Can you run an internal combustion engine on hydrogen? Yes, you can modify an existing one to do so.
● Can you run a car on hydrogen? Yes, you can. Hydrogen powered cars are even commercially produced now. But they are mostly hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and not hydrogen ICE vehicles.
● Can you run a car on hydrogen produced from electrolysis? Yes, you can. You can produce hydrogen from electrolysis and you can use it in an ICE to power a vehicle.
● Is it efficient? Hell, no. Electrolysis is an extremely energy intensive process. Numerous efforts have been to radically improve the efficiency, but huge barriers remain.

As should be known to anyone with secondary school knowledge of chemistry, distilled water is not really conductive. Distilled water in fact has a conductivity of 1,000 to 10,000 times less than tap water. Also, electrodes are supposed to be good conductors, highly conductive metals. I have no idea where capacitors came from. Moreover, you will not find the term 'HHO' being used for a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gases, or the term 'brown gas' being used for it outside quack circles. It is used exclusively by the water-fuel, HHO mileage enhancer crowd. Just google the terms and you'll see hundreds of 'water kit' likes and mileage enhancement attachments being sold by quacks all across the globe.

The central idea is to use electrolysis to produce Hydrogen to fuel the car, and hence the entire process is dependent on the efficiency of electrolysis. As should be known to anyone with middle school scientific knowledge, you cannot just break down water into components and get energy from combustion to reform them without any loss of energy. What was most amazing was that, the 'Engineer' was not just claiming 100 per cent efficiency, but reiterating that he was able to get 'extra energy' from the system (hidden in a secret vault by the water molecule and released only to those who believe in the power of the 'water kit'?).

Energy from the magical pill

There are around 55.56 moles of water in one liter. A liter of water – 55.56 moles of H20 – would produce 55.56 moles of H2 and 55.56/2 moles of O2 during electrolysis. The energy released when water is reformed is 286 kJ/mol (aka the enthalpy of combustion) – assuming liquid water and not steam, which it would be in an engine, thereby reducing energy produced even further as 241 kJ/mol for that). For 55.56 moles, this means 15,890 kJ of energy is released.

When hydrogen (or 'HHO' as the 'Engineer' claimed) is spent in the engine – reforming H2O in the process, energy is released in the combustion process (covalent bonds are formed as atoms approach each other, lowering energy).

A car consuming 100 horsepower would require 100*745.7 Joules/second of energy. So a 100HP car would require 74570 Joules/second or 74.5 kJ/second of energy to power it. From our earlier figures, the energy from one liter of water could power a 100HP car for – given a 100 per cent efficiency electrolytic conversion and combustion – for a total of 213 seconds, or just about 3 minutes and 31 seconds. Not for 40km. I have ignored the altogether important requirements for minimum gas flow rate into the engine. These things simply cannot feed hungry engines with the amount of hydrogen required to run them. That is why hydrogen cars use liquid hydrogen filled from a filling station like gasoline, and not produce hydrogen from water inside a car. Also, water is an incompressible fluid (not perfectly, but very minimal compressibility). You can't just store a large amount of it in a small tank.

I would at this moment like to state that even now I am not confident that car was still solely running on hydrogen produced from electrolysis. The math just does not add up. Surely the 0.75 liter bottle of war loaded into the 'water kit' could not have powered the car for the drives it took on TV. Or maybe there was residual hydrogen in the 'tube' that was lying in the back seat of the car.

After wasting energy on breaking down water into Hydrogen and Oxygen you could possibly – in real world and not the make-belief world of 'water kit' – power your car from a liter of water for maybe about half a minute. I would take even that figure with a huge pinch of salt. And remember, the battery will have to be recharged for the energy spent in electrolysis.

To break down liquid water into it's components using electrolysis requires 237.2 kJ/mol in the form of electricity and 48.6 kJ/mol in the form of added heat. For a liter of water, this would require 131,79 kJ from electric power plus added heat (again, 100 per cent efficiency). This means 3.66 kW-h of electricity (cost of electricity from the grid in Pakistan is ~ Rs 9/kW-h these days for comparison). A 12V, 50A-h battery can only manage 600W-h or 0.6kW-h, not 3.66kW-h in anyway.

A hint of caution: Use of pure Oxygen in an ICE is itself dangerous, as Oxygen being highly reactive can fire up low ignition temperature lubricants and other materials deposited in the pathway. Enriched oxygen can increase efficiency by a small factor on itself in ICEs and ICEs for hydrogen use an air mixture.

'Engineer' Waqar's "trade secret" as he said on TV was being able to produce an amount of Hydrogen necessary to run an engine from water which nobody had done before as they had not done their calculations (paraphrasing translation of his words on Dunya TV's 'Kyun'). With 'extra energy'.

Towards the second appearance on Hamid Mir's show, a head-shaking and visibly angry (at the public promotion of scientific illiteracy) Dr. Ata explained to the show's host and guests that hydrogen is commercially produced mostly from natural gas (through the process of hydrocarbon steam reforming) and only a very small percentage is produced from the electrolysis of water (this method is 3 to 10 times more expensive than steam reforming). Upon hearing this, the 'Engineer' first laid upon Dr. Ata a revelation that the chemical formula of water is H2O (Nobel Prize in Chemistry!), and before he could give us more gems, the host interrupted because this was a 'technical behis' (technical argument). If a scientific argument wasn't the whole point of the show, then you'd wonder what it was?

Unscientific Scientists

The saddest part of the saga is not that the production teams from television channels were fooled or holier than thou talk show hosts were fooled or that even a few politicians were fooled but that the Chairman of the country's biggest scientific research organisation sat there and had brought a few Google search results not to say that the idea is ludicrous and basic Physics shouldn't be made fun of on television like this but to say that the idea was not but new and it has already been done (the water powered car scam is decades old with numerous fraudsters sent behind bars for financial fraud in various countries).

But it wasn't just the PCSIR Chairman. The 'water kit' was earlier presented to the country's apex scientific research funding organisation – Pakistan Science Foundation – and somehow it got a seal of approval from them. It is to get 'support' from the public kitty as well. As per 'Engineer' Waqar (on Dunya TV), he apparently gave a presentation to the PAEC as well (Why?). The PAEC has had Jinn energy experts before.

Then there was the Mohsin-e-Pakistan, who vociferously supported the idea on television, suggested it was practical, even when the 'Engineer' was busy telling us that the laws of thermodynamics can be altered and that experimentation precedes theory always. The Mohsin-e-Pakistan was asked for his opinion because he's a 'renowned scientist'. Not that he's more renown for proliferation of centrifuges, he's actually a metallurgist and not a nuclear physicist like he's usually mentioned in the media.

All this while, poor Dr Ata-ur-Rehman (himself of HAARP conspiracy fame though) could be seen helplessly trying to talk sense into the host but his efforts were in vain. The host believed – most vehemently – that he was giving necessary coverage to a magic pill required to solve all problems.

On another show, Samar Mubarikmand (of one terawatts from Thar Coal fame – notwithstanding money already spent on UCG without much results) was supportive of the idea and seemed enthusiastic about it, just suggesting that there are safety concerns, but not feasibility ones. The Chairman of the PSF addressed a press conference with the 'Engineer' who wants to sue Dr. Ata for defamation. Even the military sent two officials to meet Agha Waqar ('Water Kit' powered Al-Khalid?). There aren't enough tears in the world that can be shed on such a state of science, and the respect for it. Meanwhile, Hamid Mir, Arshad Sharif and Talat Hussain had become free energy suppression conspiracy theory activists and perpetual motion machine believers.

Radical 'Water Kit' Science

The only logical conclusion of the 'water fuel' saga can be that nuclear fusion takes place inside the engine, thereby producing the missing energy required to run a car from an on-board water tank using electrolysis. With that, 'Engineer' Waqar & Co. would have proven cold fusion as well.

When I was a kid, the national daily Nawa-e-Waqt ran a story in it's Sunday magazine that an 'inventor' from Faisalabad had designed a car that ran on – not water, not air – but kashish-e-saqqal. Yes, a car that ran on gravity! To this day, I wonder if the said car just rolled downhill.

As Abdus Salam's tombstone is edited by a District Magistrate's orders and his existence removed from collective memory, we can celebrate 'Engineer' Waqar Ahmed who has done something more important than contributing immensely to the standard model of particle physics: destroyed the laws of thermodynamics and the law of conservation of energy.

The good thing is science doesn't need protection from Pakistani scammers, junk inventors and rabid media. It is evidence based. It involves rigorous testing. It is replicable. It does not work on 'chalti to hai' arguments and hyperventilating appeals made from talk show hosts.

As the world discussed the economics of a hydrogen economy, how to store and transport it safely, and how to use it effectively, Pakistan is busy with 'water kit'. Meanwhile in India, a string theorist just landed the newly inaugurated Yuri Milner Fundamental Physics Prize. The prize money? $3 million. Ashoke Sen can buy a couple million 'water kits' from that. But surely, he's wiser than that.

Bad Science — Dawn.com — Readability
 

Singh

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Pakistani media also thinks he is a fake now


 
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Agnostic Muslim

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Re-posting my comments elsewhere on this issue:

How on earth could the PPP send two ministers to view the demonstration (or any technological demonstration) without having the claimed technology reviewed by actual scientists/researchers/engineers?

And, to boot, the said ministers are making claims of 'supporting the project with all necessary funds etc.'.

Then again, this PPP led government has turned incompetence into an art form.
 

ani82v

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Re-posting my comments elsewhere on this issue:

How on earth could the PPP send two ministers to view the demonstration (or any technological demonstration) without having the claimed technology reviewed by actual scientists/researchers/engineers?

And, to boot, the said ministers are making claims of 'supporting the project with all necessary funds etc.'.

Then again, this PPP led government has turned incompetence into an art form.
Why just blame the Govt when the entire scientific establishment fell for it?
Army too sent its representative. The proliferator Genius too endorsed it. He said he checked it personally.:taunt::taunt::taunt:

Just like the duds he sold to North Korea.:laugh:
 

Daredevil

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Why just blame the Govt when the entire scientific establishment fell for it?
Army too sent its representative. The proliferator Genius too endorsed it. He said he checked it personally.:taunt::taunt::taunt:

Just like the duds he sold to North Korea.:laugh:
The proliferator genius is a mere photo-copier of documents at Urenco. His basic intelligence (or the lack of) can be assessed based on his endorsement of these water kit car which is against the laws of thermodynamics. As they say, don't prove yourself an idiot by opening the mouth.
 

Cliff@sea

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Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves a medal from the people of Pakistan for his great service to the nation. In a few short days, he has exposed just how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion. No practical joker could have demonstrated more dramatically the true nature of our country's political leaders, popular TV anchors and famed scientists.
At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur's polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a 'water kit' enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn't matter that the rest of world couldn't extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.
Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah. Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the 'water fuel kit project'.
The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad's invention, Pakistan's image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man's life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.
Pakistan's most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: "jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai" (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: "Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai" (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved). The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: "hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha" (we had some work done on this too).
So, what is the problem? It's that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad's 'water kit', if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.
To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman, a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.
The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here's how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the 'water kit' contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.
But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin's magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 3rd, 2012

The water car fraud – The Express Tribune
 

Cliff@sea

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My God ^ . . . . these are the views of the Man these Pakistani hail as their greatest :agni:Scientist :rofl:

and they delude themselves to believe that He actually built their Bomb .

Anyway what can be expected of a nation that hails a Fraud and denounces their Greatest scientist (Dr. Abdus Salam)
 
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Cliff@sea

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From some Forum :

If BS were energy, Pakistan would be a powerhouse.
 

Cliff@sea

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A pakistani response to Pervez Hoodbhoy's Article :::

How can Pervez Hoodbhoy write this article without inspecting the car? Even in courts people are innocent till proved guilty and Hoodbhoy uses bad words to call Engineer Agha a fraud etc. Hoodbhoy probably feels a lowly engineer cannot do what scientists with big big words, with big degrees can do.
If a Pakistani engineer has shown the second law of thermodynamics as wrong and written a third law of thermodynamics making water car possible, why do we do self loathing and instead not praise and appreciate him and give him full support? This is the difference between Pakistan and west, we are not proud of our heros and confident of their abilities.


:facepalm:
 
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A pakistani response to Pervez Hoodbhoy's Article :::

How can Pervez Hoodbhoy write this article without inspecting the car? Even in courts people are innocent till proved guilty and Hoodbhoy uses bad words to call Engineer Agha a fraud etc. Hoodbhoy probably feels a lowly engineer cannot do what scientists with big big words, with big degrees can do.
If a Pakistani engineer has shown the second law of thermodynamics as wrong and written a third law of thermodynamics making water car possible, why do we do self loathing and instead not praise and appreciate him and give him full support? This is the difference between Pakistan and west, we are not proud of our heros and confident of their abilities.


:facepalm:
Hilarious not only did he invent something already done decades ago he changed 2 laws of thermodynamics
another brilliant pakistani mind.
 

Cliff@sea

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So finally the International Media has picked it up too . . :laugh:



ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — In a nation thirsting for energy, he loomed like a messiah: a small-town engineer who claimed he could run a car on water.

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The assertion — based on the premise that he had discovered a way to easily split the oxygen and hydrogen atoms in water molecules with almost no energy — would, if proven, represent a stunning breakthrough for physics and a near-magical solution to Pakistan's desperate power crisis.

"By the grace of Allah, I have managed to make a formula that converts less voltage into more energy," the professed inventor, Agha Waqar Ahmad, said in a telephone interview. "This invention will solve our country's energy crisis and provide jobs to hundreds of thousands of people."

Established scientists have debunked his spectacular claims, first made one month ago, saying they violate ironclad laws of physics. But across Pakistan, where crippling electricity cuts have left millions drenched in the sweat of a powerless summer, and where there is hunger for tales of homegrown glory, the shimmering mirage of a "water car" received a broad and serious embrace.

Federal ministers lauded Mr. Ahmad and his vehicle, sometimes at cabinet meetings. The stand-in minister for religious affairs, Khursheed Shah, appeared on television with him and took a ride in his small Suzuki rental, which was hooked up to a contraption that Mr. Ahmad described as a "water kit." Respected talk show hosts suggested he should get state financing and protection.

The country's most famous scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan — revered inside Pakistan as the father of the country's nuclear weapons program and reviled elsewhere as a notorious figure in the international nuclear black market — gave it his imprimatur, too. "I have investigated the matter, and there is no fraud involved," he told Hamid Mir, a popular television journalist, during a recent broadcast that sealed Mr. Ahmad's celebrity.

The quest to harness chemical energy from water is a holy grail of science, offering the tantalizing promise of a world free from dependence on oil. Groups in other countries, including Japan, the United States and Sri Lanka, have previously made similar claims. They have been largely ignored.

Not so with Mr. Ahmad, even if he is an unlikely scientific prodigy. Forty years old and a father of five, he graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering in 1990 from a small technical college in Khairpur, in southern Sindh Province, he said in the interview. For most of his career he worked in a local police department. He is currently unemployed.

But he sprang up at a moment when Pakistan was intensely aware of its power shortcomings. Violent riots erupted across Punjab and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Provinces recently as temperatures in some places hovered around 110 degrees amid electricity shortages that stretched up to 20 hours per day. Chronic shortages of natural gas, which powers many cars and homes, result in lines snaking from gas stations. Energy politics are expected to play a prominent role in elections set to take place within the next 10 months.

In another measure of the issue, the United States government has donated heavily to electricity generation projects, hoping to win support from Pakistan's largely hostile public; last week, Congress authorized $280 million for various hydroelectric projects.

News media commentators said the coverage of Mr. Ahmad's claims was the Pakistani version of Britain's "silly season," when journalists and politicians embrace the unlikely during the annual lull in politics. But for established scientists, it was a symptom of a wider, more worrisome, ignorance of science.

It shows "how far Pakistan has fallen into the pit of ignorance and self-delusion," wrote Pervez Hoodbhoy, an outspoken physics professor, in The Express Tribune, a national English-language daily. He added: "Our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence."

The "water car" is not the first unlikely episode in Pakistani science. In 2010 Atta ur-Rahman, head of the state higher education body, aired views that the United States government was financing a covert science project in Alaska that sought to manipulate the world's weather and that could set off earthquakes, floods and tsunamis.

Dr. Rahman's article incited a furious public debate with other scientists, notably Dr. Hoodbhoy, who has also sought to highlight a worrisome decline in academic standards in Pakistan.

Stories of widespread plagiarism, fake qualifications and doctorates granted under dubious circumstances have circulated in academic circles for several years. "We have had a flood of academic garbage," Dr. Hoodbhoy said. The trend was inadvertently accelerated under the military ruler, Pervez Musharraf, who required all members of Parliament to hold a college degree — prompting some to acquire fake ones.

Pakistan is not lacking in academic talent. With 68 percent of the population under 30, according to the United Nations, education is a preoccupation among parents across the social spectrum. This year 200 Pakistani undergraduates will start at 50 different American colleges under the government-financed Fulbright educational exchange program.

Yet even the country's academic achievements are mired in the old problems of politics, prejudice and religion.

The work of a Pakistani particle physicist, Abdus Salam, won him a Nobel Prize along with two others scientists in 1979, and it has been credited with paving the way for the discovery of what appears to be the Higgs boson particle, which was announced July 4.

But Dr. Salam, who died in 1996, is largely ignored in his homeland because he was a member of the Ahmadi sect, whose members suffer state-sponsored discrimination and, in recent years, attacks by violent extremists.

For his part, Mr. Ahmad brushed off his critics, claiming to have run the Suzuki for 250 miles on 10 liters of water.

"I am not concerned with theory. I have given a practical demonstration that a vehicle can run on water," he said. "What more proof do these critics need?"

In a word, more. "Water car" jokes have circulated widely on Twitter, while an Internet comedy group, The Naked Tyrant, rolled out a spoof video featuring a religious man who claimed to make his car run on "pious deeds."

And, as a reader of one newspaper noted in a letter to the editor: "What is odd is that the only specimen so far on display is the one fitted in his own car."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/world/asia/boast-of-water-run-car-thrills-pakistan.html
Pakistan electrified by 'water car' claim
Pakistan water-fuelled car claim sparks joy, worry
 

balai_c

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third law of thermodynamics
Unfortunately 3rd law of thermodynamics already exists!

The third law of thermodynamics is sometimes stated as follows:

The entropy of a perfect crystal at absolute zero is exactly equal to zero.

At zero kelvin the system must be in a state with the minimum possible energy, and this statement of the third law holds true if the perfect crystal has only one minimum energy state. Entropy is related to the number of possible microstates, and with only one microstate available at zero kelvin, the entropy is exactly zero.[1]



A more general form of the third law applies to systems such as glasses that may have more than one minimum energy state:

The entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero.

The constant value (not necessarily zero) is called the residual entropy of the system.[2]

Physically, the law implies that it is impossible for any procedure to bring a system to the absolute zero of temperature in a finite number of steps.
In simple terms, the third law states that the entropy of a perfect crystal approaches zero as the absolute temperature approaches zero. This law provides an absolute reference point for the determination of entropy. The entropy determined relative to this point is the absolute entropy. Mathematically, the absolute entropy of any system at zero temperature is the natural log of the number of ground states times Boltzmann's constant kB.

The entropy of a perfect crystal lattice as defined by Nernst's theorem is zero provided that its ground state is unique, because ln(1) = 0.

An example of a system which does not have a unique ground state is one containing half-integer spins, for which time-reversal symmetry gives two degenerate ground states. For such systems, the entropy at zero temperature is at least ln(2)kB (which is negligible on a macroscopic scale). Some crystalline systems exhibit geometrical frustration, where the structure of the crystal lattice prevents the emergence of a unique ground state. Ground-state helium (unless under pressure) remains liquid.

In addition, glasses and solid solutions retain large entropy at 0K, because they are large collections of nearly degenerate states, in which they become trapped out of equilibrium. Another example of a solid with many nearly-degenerate ground states, trapped out of equilibrium, is ice Ih, which has "proton disorder".

For the entropy at absolute zero to be zero, the magnetic moments of a perfectly ordered crystal must themselves be perfectly ordered; indeed, from an entropic perspective, this can be considered to be part of the definition of "perfect crystal". Only ferromagnetic, antiferromagnetic, and diamagnetic materials can satisfy this condition. Materials that remain paramagnetic at 0K, by contrast, may have many nearly-degenerate ground states (for example, in a spin glass), or may retain dynamic disorder (a spin liquid [6]).
wikipedia- 3rd law of thermodynamics

Another way of explaining would be that , it is impossible for any object to reach absolute zero, no matter how close they go, they will never reach the enigmatic figure of -273 degree celcious. The reason being that if that happens, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle becomes void(you can calculate both the position and momentum of a subatomic particle!). That would also invalidate the idea of zero point energy, either in translation , rotation, or vibration.

Maybe 4th law of thermodynamics?! :rofl:
 

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