Pakistani Army ran Muslim extremist training camps, says anti-terrorist expert

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by bengalraider, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,624
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Location:
    in a fast food joint next to the imperial shipyard
    From: Pakistani Army ran Muslim extremist training camps, says anti-terrorist expert - Times Online

    for me what is interesting is the american involvement the author alleges (the involvement of the PA in training militants has long been common knowledge in India). if true this means the Americans have been acutely aware of Pakistani involvement in terrorism in the sub-continent and have turned a blind eye to all the murders carried out by the Let and other associated groups. This could really hurt indo-american relations even more the scale of the enterprise incident of 71.
     
  2.  
  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,269
    Likes Received:
    11,230
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Man!! the revelations are damning. CIA is no better than the ISI!!

    Would be interesting to now know if there is any US knowledge of the 26/11 attacks and whether they could have forewarned India about it. God damn it, who the hell do we trust?
     
  4. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,624
    Likes Received:
    2,027
    Location:
    in a fast food joint next to the imperial shipyard
    The thing is this means the american were supporting and helping al-qaeda affiliates after the embassy attacks and the first WTC bombing in 1993,this means the CIA was standing by watching Americans die. who do we trust indeed?
     
  5. prahladh

    prahladh Respected Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Universal Citizen


    The Americans have not learned their lessons from past.
    Why didn't the RAW or IB knew about these if true.
     
  6. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,563
    Likes Received:
    16
    prahladhji RAW was the one that showed the falcity of the pakistani claims that it didnt support trerror at all by conducting Operation Chanakya:This was the R&AW operation in the disputed Kashmir region to infiltrate various ISI-backed Kashmiri separatist groups and restore peace in the Kashmir valley. R&AW operatives infiltrated the area, collected military intelligence, and provided evidence about ISI's involvement in training and funding Kashmiri separatist groups. R&AW was successful not only in unearthing the links between the ISI and the separatist groups, but also in infiltrating and neutralizing the militancy in the Kashmir valley.R&AW is also credited for creating a split in the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. Operation Chanakya also marked the creation of pro-Indian groups in Kashmir like the Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen, Muslim Mujahideen etc. These counter-insurgencies consist of ex-militants and relatives of those slain in the conflict. Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen leader Kokka Parrey was himself assassinated by separatists
     
  7. prahladh

    prahladh Respected Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    144
    Location:
    Universal Citizen
    F-14 I was referring to American giving a blind eye and even visiting such training facilities. This is something I never heard of before. Of course the world knows ISI and LeT are chaddi buddies.
     
  8. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,176
    Likes Received:
    6,607
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    They were the main players of any game, weather Good or Bad or Ugly.
    the CIA was the main hand of World's terrorism in any some how manner.
     
  9. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    till 9/11 happened, USA never supported india's complaint of cross border terror. they just ignored us. they realised only after 9/11 that their CIA activities are going to hurt them badly. so change of track. even now whatever cooperation we are seeing is at best minimal. remember our intel group which went to US to interrogate Headley returned empty handed 'cos US declined us from interrogating the culprits. this when india allowed FBI to do the same wrt 26/11 terrorists.
    even at the height of atrocities of pakistan in now Bangladesh they supported pakistan. it would be naive to think they did not know of ISI activities. either they were passively supporting it or actively turning a blind eye.
    i am not surprised at all.
     
  10. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,434
    Likes Received:
    1,719
    Location:
    Land of the GODS - "Dev Bhomi".
    Well cia and the Americans being aware of all such terror network, module and infrastructure certainly does not come as a surprise but what does sound a little surprising is the assistance they provide but I would be more surprised if the GoI and our intelligence agencies were not aware about this nexus.

    When Americans could turn a blind eye to the nuke proliferation happening in our neighborhood, then what was terror which in those days was all happening under the carpet without any media coverage unlike these days. It is precisely for these reasons why the Americans are least bit trusted lot, they back stab the moment their interests are well taken care of.

    A point well made by ppgj, Americans till 9/11 always saw the terror acts in Kashmir as an indigenous freedom struggle and had a sympathetic take on the issue and were ever eager to mediate in the peace dialog between India and Pakistan.

    Is it damning, well certainly not, as I said in the start, I would be more surprised if our top chaps did not know about this nexus, and where we are at present wrt our relations with the us, it is in a completely different league. Things will move ahead like they have been happening since the past few years, but hopefully we do keep them at a distance and not let them meddle in our internal affairs or in policy making, which will be more damning than anything else.
     
  11. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    US provides cover to Pakistan on proliferation, terrorism

    Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN 15 November 2009, 03:13am IST

    WASHINGTON: Not for the first time, the United States has downplayed reports of alleged Pakistan’s nuclear transgressions and promotion of
    terrorism even as American lawmakers are getting increasingly restive about a nominal ally having become the crossroad where terrorism and nuclear proliferation meet.

    Because Washington is largely dependent on Islamabad for getting supplies to its 68,000 troops in landlocked Afghanistan, US officials are glossing over worrying reports ranging from clandestine nuclear transfers between Pakistan and China, to the Pakistani military running terror camps under the CIA’s nose, in order not to offend Islamabad.

    On Friday, US officials had to again bat for Pakistan after embarrassing disclosures on the eve of President Obama’s visit to Beijing about the long-running China-Pakistan nuclear nexus, even as two US Congressmen demanded a probe into the Pakistani connection of Major Nidal Malik Hasan, the alleged gunman who mowed down 13 people at a military base in Texas.

    Demanding a Congressional inquiry, the lawmakers Pete Hoekstra (a former CIA Director) and Michael McCaul (a former prosecutor) spoke of money transfers Major Hasan (who is a US citizen of Palestinian origin) had made to Pakistan, recalling another famous money transfer from Pakistan to 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta that was never adequately probed or explained.

    Major Hassan’s ''Pakistani connection'' comes on the heels of several other terrorist investigations in the US, including those involving Denver truck driver Najibullah Zazi, a jihadi mob in Virginia, and the Chicago duo of Daood Gilani and Rana Tawassur, where in each case the trail has led to Pakistan.

    Washington also had the mortification of having a French investigator claim last week that the CIA winked at a Lashkar-e-Taiba terror camp run by the Pakistani military as long as it did not train westerners. The shocking allegation comes on the eve an expected visit to New Delhi next week of CIA Director Leon Panetta to discussed terrorism and security-related issues.

    On Friday, US officials brushed aside fresh disclosures about the China-Pakistan nuclear exchanges, suggesting it was all so long ago (during the Reagan era, one official pointed out) and all was hunky-dory now.

    ''This is about something that happened in the early ’80s, I believe. And I don’t have any comment on that specific incident,'' State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said about disclosures that China had given
    Pakistan 50 kilograms of bomb grade uranium and a do-it-yourself kit to enable Islamabad go nuclear in the 80s.

    ''We feel confident that the command and control of nuclear weapons in Pakistan is secure,'' Kelly said, adding to a stream of official endorsements for Pakistan that run against privately expressed concerns. ''And
    we don’t have any specific concerns about proliferation per se from – specifically from Pakistan.''

    Asked if the US had raised the issue with China in the past, Kelly said he just didn’t have that information and since '''this was almost 30 years ago, so it’s difficult for me to say.''

    The three-decade old incident that Kelly dismissed has actually only recently been revealed, not by any western source, but by Pakistan’s own nuclear godfather A Q Khan, who has been ratting on the Pakistani government and its military, ostensibly because he is sore they humiliated him by making him the fall guy for the official proliferation and incarcerated him to boot.

    The US is loath to call both Pakistan and China to account, because it is indebted to both countries – literally so to China because of the nearly trillion dollar Chinese credit that keeps America spending, and to
    Pakistan for its supply route to Afghanistan. So anxious is Washington not to offend Pakistan that successive US administrations have not made any attempt to question A Q Khan on proliferation even though he has been spilling his guts out to a western journalist now.

    But at least on terrorism, some lawmakers are starting to express concern. Amid growing debate in the US over whether Major Hasan’s shooting spree constituted terrorism or was a random massacre, a Texas lawmaker sought a congressional hearing by the Homeland Security panel to examine Hasan's possible ties to terrorist groups, and who he had contact with before the Nov 5 shootings.

    ''This Pakistan connection just raises more red flags about this case and demonstrates why it's important for Congress to exercise its oversight authority,'' Representative Michael McCaul said, referring to alleged money transfers and phone calls that Major Hasan made to Pakistan.

    US provides cover to Pakistan on proliferation, terrorism - US - World - The Times of India
     
  12. icecoolben

    icecoolben Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    4
    This unholy marriage was the fall out of soviet war in afghanistan. Cold war shadows still linger among langley men. So its important that cia is reorganised and its classified archives opened to public just like russia did initially. Us being a democracy has hope still.
    i don't see isi's free run getting stopped by paki government, until india clearly destroys the paki military.
     
  13. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,029
    Likes Received:
    156
    CIA paid millions of dollars to ISI since 9/11: Report - US - World - The Times of India

    CIA paid millions of dollars to ISI since 9/11: Report
    IANS 16 November 2009, 12:24pm IST

    LOS ANGELES: The CIA has paid millions of dollars to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) since 9/11, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency's annual budget, says a media report.

    The ISI also collected "tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA programme", which pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, the Los Angeles Times reported on Monday citing current and former US officials.

    An intense debate has been triggered within the US government due to "long-standing suspicions that the ISI continues to help Taliban extremists who undermine US efforts in Afghanistan and provide sanctuary to al-Qaida members in Pakistan".

    But US officials have continued to make the payments as ISI's assistance is considered critical: "Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence."

    The report went on to say that the payments to Pakistan are authorised under a covert programme initially approved by then president Bush and continued under President Obama.

    "The ISI has used the covert CIA money for a variety of purposes, including the construction of a new headquarters in Islamabad, the capital. That project pleased CIA officials because it replaced a structure considered vulnerable to attack; it also eased fears that the US money would end up in the private bank accounts of ISI officials."

    "What we didn't want to happen was for this group of generals in power at the time to just start putting it in their pockets or building mansions in Dubai," a former CIA operative was quoted as saying.

    CIA officials argue that their own disbursements - particularly the bounties for suspected terrorists - should be considered a bargain.

    "They gave us 600 to 700 people captured or dead," a former senior CIA official, who worked with the Pakistanis, was quoted as saying.

    "Getting these guys off the street was a good thing, and it was a big savings to (US) taxpayers."

    Another US intelligence official said Pakistan had made "decisive contributions to counter-terrorism".

    "They have people dying almost every day," the official said. "Sure, their interests don't always match up with ours. But things would be one hell of a lot worse if the government there was hostile to us."

    The ISI is a highly compartmentalised intelligence service, with divisions that sometimes seem at odds with one another. Units that work closely with the CIA are walled off from a highly secretive branch that has directed insurgencies in Afghanistan and Kashmir, the Los Angeles Times report said.

    "There really are two ISIs," the former CIA operative said.

    "On the counter-terrorism side, those guys were in lock-step with us," the former operative said. "And then there was the 'long-beard' side. Those are the ones who created the Taliban and are supporting groups like Haqqani."

    The network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani has been accused of carrying out a series of suicide attacks in Afghanistan, including the 2008 bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul.
     
  14. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    1,106
    Location:
    Moscow, russia
    what is the outcome of this whole issue time and again its shown to the world that how pakistan has been supporting the terrorists the world is tired of hearing all these these have become an universal truth if it can e said but what measures are the world taking to curb it
    simply nothing!! dosent help to have a weak leader like NOBEL WINNER mr obama who is fanning the fire by this economic prizes
    thousands of innocent people in pakistan is feeling the brunt too we need to rise to the next level in the thought process and in the act to stop this because simple speeches like this from time to time dosent help what i understand the world community LACKS THE WILL TO ACT !!
     

Share This Page