Pakistan’s Endless Lies & India’s Gutless Pundits

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Ray, Jan 15, 2013.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Pakistan’s Endless Lies & India’s Gutless Pundits

    By Kunal Verma

    After the Kargil War, I was filming the eight Pakistani prisoners who had been captured by us in the Dras and Batalik Sectors. The Army PROs had told the POWs that I was from the Red Cross or some such bullshit in the hope that they would talk on camera. The first thing I did with each of them was to tell them that I was from no such organization. I also told them point blank that their country was denying that their Army had been a part of the infiltration and their best chance of returning to Pakistan was to talk turkey and tell the truth or languish in our jails for years. The fear of God and the fact that they would never see their families again worked and they began to talk – all eight of them. As ordinary soldiers they didn’t know too much, but what they said was detailed and clearly established how their regular units had moved into position masquerading as ‘mujahideen’.

    The visuals of those men, some with bandages on their eyes, was flashed on virtually every television channel and within a week the eight POWs were flown back to Pakistan. That footage is still with me, and the verbal evidence of the POWs blows whatever fig leaf of cover the Pakistani establishment ever had.

    Kargil was not a one off thing. The same thing had happened in Jammu and Kashmir in 1948. From day one the Government of Pakistan had gone blue in the face repeating ad nauseam that their Army was not involved. Their entire case in the United Nations was based on that one big lie which we could never convincingly expose, despite the fact that Western journalists had splashed photographs of the active involvement of the Pakistan Armed Forces. For my book, The Long Road to Siachen: The Question Why I found some of these images fairly easily, yet no one on the Indian side felt the need to aggressively nail this great big lie. Years later, when Pakistani officers began to publish their own stories, we still did nothing to counter this propaganda.

    As a nation, we are pathetic when it comes to remembering our history or honouring the brave men who died defending this country – sixty-five years on and our political leadership grudges them even a National War Memorial! Not surprising then that October 1947 in Baramula has all but been forgotten, when the tribal lashkar pulled out and raped virtually every woman and girl in the town; or for that matter forgotten the chilling words when Skardu fell and the Pakistani field commander wired back “All Sikhs killed and women raped” or words to that affect.

    In 1965 they did it again, and then again in 1971, even when the Pakistan Army was fighting for its survival in Bangladesh, they tortured and mutilated our boys. 22 Rajput at Madhumati had two men stripped naked and dragged through the streets behind jeeps while others were tied to trees and their eyes were gouged out! The Indian Government’s response was predictable – 22 Rajput was pulled out of the Eastern Theatre. The Pakistan Army which had behaved in the most barbaric manner possible with the people of Bangladesh were then protected by us from the Mukti Bahini and 93,000 POWs were sent back by a preening Indian Government while some of our own boys even today are reportedly languishing in their jails. Not one of the Pakistani soldiers was tried for war crimes.

    Our Parliament is attacked and Mumbai is held hostage by ‘non-state actors’, Kashmir has been on fire for thirty years thanks to our hostile friends across the border and all we do is sanctimoniously talk of CBMs and signing Track 2 ‘deals’ where we want to talk of demilitarization of Siachen based on some ridiculous sentimental hogwash of being brothers who have been separated at birth! We want to play cricket and hold hands and sing songs and write articles about ‘Aman ki Aasha’. Sure, there’s nothing wrong in building people to people contacts and keeping dialogue open, but surely it must be on our terms.

    And now this! Pakistani soldiers behead our boys and we wring our hands in collective anguish. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH US?

    We’ve brought this upon ourselves! We can’t protect our women, we can’t look after our farmers, or our soldiers – either on the borders or in Chattisgarh – we can’t take a damn step any more without being surrounded with the stench of corruption. As a people we have failed and the Government of India, which is us, have failed the country as we squabble at every level. Every institution is today under attack – be it the Army, the Police or the Judiciary. We watch as our Parliamentarians make monkeys of themselves in the highest edifices of democracy and then go scuttling into their homes behind a barricade of police protection and barbed wire when our children take to the streets. Just imagine what would have happened if the President of India had walked down the Raisina Hill slope and embraced the anguished youth and shared their concern. All we got was lip service. And water canons and a few lathi charges.

    The underlying message of these protests – be it Anna Hazare or Ramdev or Kejriwal or Sangeeta, Radhika, Madhulika, Meena or Jyoti is the same, even if our screaming, sometimes hysterical media misses it! THE PEOPLE ARE CRYING OUT FOR BETTER GOVERNANCE! Every scandal – be it the CWG, 2G, 3G, Coalgate, Kodankulam or FDI, is a nail in our crumbling wall. When your intestines are bleeding, your women being raped, your fishermen are being shot by drunk Italian Guards as sport, and all you do is make shrill noises on TV, do you seriously expect the enemy sitting beyond your gate to shake his head in sympathy or do you expect him to hit you even harder. If he takes away your heads, it anguishes us today. But as we have regularly demonstrated, we will do nothing about it.

    I have two simple suggestions:

    The media must stop covering the Pakistan border. A complete news black out on anything concerning the LOC. The Indian Army is more than capable of making the people who did this heinous act pay. Just leave the Army alone. It is their ghost and they will burry it at their time of choosing.

    Enforce a Naval economic blockade of Karachi until Dawood Ibrahim, the perpetuators of the Mumbai Attack, and the Pakistani Army personnel who beheaded our boys in 2011 in Kupwara and now in Mendhar are handed over. There should be no compromise on this. The Indian Navy has had a virtual son-in-law status since Independence and all the talk of a blue water Navy now needs to be put to the test. Choke Pakistan economically so that they hurt. Neither the Army nor the IAF have the numerical superiority over Pakistan to conduct any surgical retaliation strike. The Navy on the other hand, has a major edge over the Pakistan Navy. If the rest of the world, especially the US, has a problem with this, tell them to go to hell and shut the door behind them!

    Kunal Verma is the author of The Long Road to Siachen: The Question Why and The Northeast Trilogy. A filmmaker, he has been professionally associated with the Armed Forces for over two decades. His films include The Standard Bearers (National Defence Academy), The Making of a Warrior (Indian Military Academy), Salt of the Earth and Aakash Yodha (IAF), The Naval Dimension and Kashmir: Baramula to Kargil among others. The recently published Northeast Trilogy documents the entire Northeastern region of India.

    Indian Strategic Studies: Pakistan’s Endless Lies & India’s Gutless Pundits
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Comments on Pakistan Army's actions in J &K
    Paper No. 5361 Dated 14-Jan-2013
    By Col R Hariharan

    [Here is a summary of my comments made to print media and on TV on the India-Pakistan standoff after two Indian soldiers were killed by Pakistani troops on 8 January 2012.]

    On the killing and mutilation of soldiers

    This is not the first time Pakistan army has indulged in barbaric acts like beheading captured Indian soldiers, particularly in Jammu and Kashmir. Unfortunately, it has become a part of the Pak military culture while handling Indian soldiers taken prisoner. They had carried in such inhuman acts before. Captured soldiers were blinded and pushed back alive to the Indian lines during the 1971 War. The torture and mutilation of Lt Saurav Kalia before killing him in the Kargil War in 1999 is well documented. In 2009 they did this again; and now this is one more such gruesome incident.

    Why does the Pakistan army do such things?

    We should not see this as a standalone action of some misguided soldiers. Pakistan army for long has nursed a grudge to avenge its decisive defeat in 1971 War at the hands of Indian army. Even the Kargil War has its roots in this mentality. And in the eyes of average Pakistani the unresolved Kashmir issue provides sufficient grounds to ignore such aberrations of Pakistan army. Pakistan army has exploited this attitude and the latent fear of India to perpetuate its existence as a powerful extra constitutional authority to control the way ‘democracy’ operates in the country.

    In this respect Pakistan army is totally different from Indian army which functions under the elected government. So we cannot expect Pakistan army to behave like its Indian counterpart.

    Pakistan had been facing a terrorist attacks mainly from two groups: the Tehrik –e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), popularly known as Pakistan Taliban and the Lashkar e Jhangvi (LJ), an anti-Shia Jihadi terrorist group. The TTP, a predominantly Pashtun group, aims to destabilize Pakistan state and establish an Islamic government based on Sharia and operates from bases in Federally Administered Tribal Area (FATA) along Afghan border. It has been attacking government and military installations with considerable success. The LJ, a predominantly Punjabi outfit with Taliban connections, has mainly targeted the Shia population. It has claimed responsibility for the 10 January 2013 bombings in Quetta and in northern Swat Valley, killing in all 125 people and injuring 270. Pakistan army is currently carrying out operations against these two organizations. In addition to this, since December 2012, the army has been intensified its operations against Baloch nationalists fighting for an independent Baluchistan.


    Perhaps this has generated recent reports of Pakistan army considering terrorism as the number one threat to the country. While this sounds plausible as terrorism is becoming an existential threat to Pakistan, qualitatively counter-terrorist operations and conventional military operations are different as chalk and cheese. So the question of Pakistan army relegating India, which has nuclear capability, to the second place in its strategic threat perception does not arise.

    Whatever that be, the Pakistan army’s reported change of its stance against India has come under severe criticism from fundamentalist right-wing political groups as well as terrorist brain trusts masquerading as humanitarian and social organizations in Pakistan.

    As J and K is a perennial and popular hate symbol, Pakistan army could be indulging in some violent acts in J and K to divert the flak it has been facing from fundamentalists. This gains credibility when we see in December 2011 as many as four terrorist infiltration attempts were neutralized in J and K and 11 terrorists were killed.

    On Pakistan government’s response to the incident

    There are two aspects in the response. First, Pakistan Foreign minister has flatly denied the involvement of Pakistan army in the incident across the LoC. Second, she has offered to get it investigated by the UN Military Observers Group (UNMOGIP) in Kashmir.

    The reaction is not surprising. It is typical of Pakistan. Pakistan has denied its involvement in every attack where terrorists based in Pakistan, supported by the Inter Servies Intelligence (ISI) and trained by the army have been involved. Despite strong evidence Pakistan had been dragging its feet over prosecuting the Pakistani culprits who masterminded the 26/11 Lashkar attacks in Mumbai.

    The Foreign Minister’s offer to get the incident investigated by UNMOGIP is at best specious and at worst mischievous. She knows fully that India’s firm stand against outside intervention in bilateral issues between the two countries. She may also be hoping to revive the UN interest on the Kashmir issue, which had faded from UN agenda quite some time ago.

    An Indian media commentator has indirectly suggested that the building of a border check post by Indian army on the line of control (LoC) in J and K was objected to by Pak army as it violated the 2003 Ceasefire Agreement. And they opened fire when Indian troops went ahead with the construction. The whole chain of events followed from that, he has added. This is simplistic.

    India’s defence ministry has denied this conjecture. Bases of jihadi terrorists continue to exist in Pakistan occupied Kashmir across the Indian border. Troops deployed there remember the lessons of Kargil War and are duty bound to prevent infiltration by these terrorists.

    Unless Pakistan removes the terrorist camps and disband the outfits, Indian army’s priority will be to ensure all actions are talem to prevent infiltration across the border.

    India must tell Pakistan that it should also conform to the letter and spirit of the ceasefire agreement when it talks about it. And India has to take adequate measures to safeguard the sanctity of its borders.

    Shout India break off peace initiatives?

    India and Pakistan share not only geographic borders but common historical, cultural, religious, and social experience as well. They have to exist in peace and amity lest they fritter away their common assets. This is the reality. Unfortunately the wounds of Partition have left deep scars in the psyche of both countries.

    In Pakistan, the lingering suspicion about India not reconciling with the existence of Pakistan has conditioned its politics and thinking of large sections of the people. In India, a strong antipathy to Pakistan permeates thinking both in political and public sphere.

    However, after both countries acquired nuclear capability, both countries seem to be aware of the dangers of escalating military confrontation to full scale conventional war. So there is greater realization among the people and mainstream political parties that building better relations is the only option for the good of both the nations as well as the region.And both countries have embarked on building peaceful relations between them.

    The need for such win-win relationship has become urgent as changes in the strategic scene in Af-Pak region looks imminent when American and NATO forces pull out from Afghanistan 2013-14. In all likelihood Taliban-led jihadi groups could stage a comeback and become more aggressive. In view of this, both India and Pakistan have strategic imperatives in ensuring that this does not affect their national interests.

    There had been a number of roadblocks coming up now and then in the peace building process mostly due to the strong military influence in Pakistan’s body politics and terrorist forays on India emanating from Pakistan. So there are always periodic up and down swings in peace moves.

    Despite these setbacks, both countries have invariably bounced back. Now also this process is on and some progress has been made in lifting trade restrictions for Indian goods, and in adopting more liberal visa policies. Pakistan cricket team has visited India after a long time; and an Indian team is scheduled to tour to Pakistan. However, these initiatives have not been allowed to bloom in full due to persistent parochial and security considerations.

    India-Pakistan relations have security, political and international dimensions. It is essential that any incident affecting in one of these dimensions is assessed in its own context before any precipitate action is taken that would stall the peace building process.

    However, this does not mean India adopting a soft approach when its soldiers have been meted out barbaric and inhuman treatment. We should strongly react and send a clear message that India would not tolerate such conduct from Pakistan.

    Is India’s response soft?

    India has always avoided a knee jerk reaction to border confrontations. But this is not a run of the mill incident; it is an inhuman act by Pak troops. As has become the common practice, the prime minister has maintained his silence. Defence Minister Antony has come out with a strong statement. The Army Headquarters has also reacted promptly to set the record straight. Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee and Air Chief, has warned that the country might have to look at “some other options for compliance” if Pakistan breached the 2003 Ceasefire Agreement.

    But if past experience is any guide, this does not mean Indian army would be allowed to respond fittingly to discourage such Pak adventurism. After all, in the case of Saurav Kalia’s, the Indian government responded so weakly that even 13 years after the incident his father, a veteran soldier, has to come on public media and appeal to the prime minister for action. Still Ministry of Defence and Ministry of External Affairs is playing round robin on the Kalia issue.

    One can see the continuing lack of coordination even in the response to the current incident. Even as the Defence Minister made a strong statement, Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid made it clear India would not be “pressured by wild calls for revenge” over the killing and mutilation of two Indian soldiers. Of course, he tried to mellow it down by making a statement sympathetic to the dead soldiers. This proves that the priorities of foreign policy are not inclusive of defence sensitivity and at best comes in a lower order.

    Thus even the ‘strong statement’ would appear to be a tepid response at best. But that is business as usual as far as defence matters are concerned in this country, where we have a unique system where civilians take decisions on strategic security issues with the service chiefs only on listening watch. As the government ethos appears to be guided by Rudyard Kipling who wrote the duty of the soldier was “not to reason how and why but to do and die” soldiers are just doing that. And that is the tragedy.

    Future course

    The LoC continues to be restive in J and K. Firing across the border continues; in military terms that would indicate probably cross border infiltration attempts are continuing. The terrorist activity has started again in Kashmir. This time they appear to be choosing soft targets like village sarpanchs. They have been threatened with death if they do not resign. Already two sarpanchs have been killed by terrorists.

    The ruling Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) is completing its full five year term. Cashing on the public anger at civilian casualties due to American drone attacks on Pakistani terrorist targets, Imran Khan, leader of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI), has gathered huge popular support. He could threaten the successful return of PPP as winners in the coming elections. So the PPP government will probably be cautious in dealing with India as the election nears.

    The army is an important external factor that conditions Pakistani response to India. The army would also like to avoid being branded as going soft on Indians, particularly when it continues its counter terrorist against some of the jihadi terrorist groups outside its orbit of control.

    Given this complex scene across the border, we can expect more local skirmishes along the J and K border. However, we need to handle such incidents dispassionately and with greater alacrity; there is no need to bend over backwards to appease Pakistan. Instances of intrusions by Pakistan army or terrorists should be dealt with firmly keeping in mind national security considerations.

    Indian government will have to work out its Pakistan policy afresh taking into consideration the dynamics of impending changes in Af-Pak region. It has to take into confidence all major political parties in evolving this.

    The credibility of the government and political class is increasingly being questioned by the public who are impatient with the sloth and indifference in governance. So while responding to any India-Pakistan security standoff, the government has to show greater sensitivity and spruce up its act in communicating to the public.

    Indian Strategic Studies: Comments on Pakistan Army's actions in J &K
     
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    Is it time for India to inject greater realism into its Pakistan policy?
    Jan 10, 2013
    By: BRAHMA CHELLANEY

    Words like "brutal", "heinous" and "savage" aptly describe the way a Pakistani army unit raided Indian territory and chopped two soldiers, taking away one severed head as a "trophy". The Indian outrage, however, must not blind us to the unpalatable truth: India is reaping what it sowed. New Delhi is staring at the bitter harvest of a decade-long policy seeking to appease a recalcitrant neighbor with unilateral concessions and gestures.


    The "peace-at-any-price diplomacy" was started by prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee in an abrupt policy U-turn in 2003, and has been pursued with greater vigor by his successor, Manmohan Singh — interrupted only by the Pakistan-orchestrated Mumbai terrorist rampage of 2008.

    Regrettably, no policy lessons were drawn by New Delhi from the Mumbai terrorist siege, which occurred because India presented itself as a weak and tempting target. The latest episode — one of the worst acts of Pakistani savagery in peacetime ever — has followed a dozen Pakistani violations of the line of control in the past one month. The question to ask is what has prompted the Pakistani military establishment to adopt an overtly aggressive posture visa-vis India of late.

    The Pakistani military is drawing encouragement from two factors. The first factor is that the US-Pakistan relationship, after being on the boil for more than a year, has gradually returned to normalcy. That the US-Pakistan rift has healed is apparent from Washington's resumption of large-scale military aid and its coddling of the Pakistan army and ISI.

    US aid to Pakistan is now at a historic high — at more than $3 billion a year. US policy, because of the exigencies of an exit strategy from Afghanistan, has permitted political expediency to trump long-term interests vis-a-vis Pakistan. The US has allowed even a key issue to fade away: how was Osama bin Laden able to hide deep inside Pakistan? The reason for that is the same as to why the US didn't pursue the AQ Khan case.

    The second factor is the series of unilateral political concessions by India, including delinking dialogue from terrorism, and recognising Pakistan, the sponsor of terror, as a victim of terror. Whereas US policy has increased the Pakistani military's room for maneuver against India, Indian policy has both solidified Pakistani reluctance to bring the Mumbai-attack masterminds to justice and emboldened the Pakistani military to commit yet another act of aggression.

    India has considerably eased pressure on Pakistan, both on the Mumbai-attack issue and on Hafiz Saeed, the militant leader who still preaches terrorism against India. India has also pursued a host of goodwill gestures, including resuming high-level political exchanges and cricketing ties and introducing a less-restricted visa regime for Pakistanis. All these moves, unfortunately, have sent the wrong message to Islamabad.

    Being nice with a determined adversary in the hope that this will change its behavior is not strategy. With Singh dreaming of open borders with terror-exporting Pakistan, India's Pakistan policy remains driven by hopes and gushy expectations, not statecraft. In fact, some of the public statements Singh has made in recent years have not only been insensitive in relation to those slain by Pakistan-trained terrorists but may also have inadvertently encouraged Pakistani intransigence and aggression. Consider the following examples:

    "We both [Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani and myself] recognise that if there is another attack like Mumbai, it will be a setback to the normalisation of relations". In other words, if there were another Mumbaistyle terrorist attack, it will merely be a "setback" to ties — that, too, a temporary setback followed by Indian concessions.

    "India-Pakistan relations are prone to accidents." Were the attacks on the Indian Parliament and Red Fort, the Mumbai terrorist strikes, and the myriad other Pakistan-scripted outrages just "accidents"? Will the latest savagery also be treated as another "accident" after the current public indignation fades?

    "We cannot wish away the fact that Pakistan is our neighbor". And, therefore, "a stable, peaceful and prosperous Pakistan" is in India's "own interest". But the breaking away of South Sudan, East Timor, and Eritrea and the disintegration of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia since the 1990s have shown that political maps are not carved in stone. In fact, the most profound global events in recent history have been the fragmentation of several countries. Didn't Indira Gandhi change political geography in 1971?

    India and Pakistan are locked by a "shared destiny", and thus "our objective must be a permanent peace with Pakistan, where we are bound together by a shared future and a common prosperity". How can a plural, inclusive and democratic India share a common destiny with a theocratic, militarised, fundamentalist and failing Pakistan?


    "It is in our vital interest to make sincere efforts to live in peace with Pakistan ... Unless we want to go to war with Pakistan, dialogue is the only way out." This reflects the classically flawed argument that the only alternative to one extreme (appeasement) is another extreme — war. The simple truth is that any country must avoid either extreme. After all, between bending backwards to please Pakistan and waging war lie a hundred different practical options for India. For more than two decades now, every Pakistani aggression against India — covert or overt — has been greeted with Indian inaction. India has shied away from employing even non-military options to discipline a wayward Pakistan.

    Will the latest strike also evoke mere Indian condemnation and no reprisal. Any right-minded citizen would want peace between India and Pakistan. India indeed has tried everything possible to build peace with Pakistan, but the Pakistani military establishment, in particular, has construed India's overtures as signs of weakness. Today, India's Pakistan policy is adrift because it is not backed by any goaloriented strategy. It is past time for India to inject greater realism into its Pakistan policy.

    (The author is professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi)

    Indian Strategic Studies: Is it time for India to inject greater realism into its Pakistan policy?
     
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    Should India Invade Pakistan?

    By Dr Amarjit Singh

    [​IMG]

    The British were smart when they created Pakistan in 1947 with a distinct aim to keep India weak, while having a Pakistan they could control, as well as have access to the region for their troops and bases, which they wanted very much at the time. The purpose of having a Pakistan was further strengthened in the British minds because the Indian government refused to allow British bases and troops to be stationed in India except over a transition period, whereas Pakistan’s Jinnah permitted British troops and bases on a more permanent basis upon the promise of the creation of Pakistan.


    Undeniably, Pakistan has been a thorn in India’s side ever since independence. They have not only failed to stop their shennanigans, but after taking a decade to recover from the 1971 humiliation, they were back to seeking revenge.

    However, Pakistan’s promisesto Britain and the West have only partially materialized, because Pakistan has blown hot and cold with their membership in the Commonwealth; Pakistan was a loyal member with the USA in CENTO and SEATO; gave immense help to USA in the fight against Russian intervention in Afghanistan; but at the same time has given the USA an exceptionally tough time since 9/11 in using their territory for operations in Afghanistan. The public sentiment in Pakistan is strongly anti-USA, at up to 90% against. In contrast, a survey in India soon after 9/11 revealed that 70% favor USA.

    The former part of British intentions – to divide and sow discord in the sub-continent — has come true from Day One. First, the refugee crisis of partition sowed hatred between Hindus and Sikhs – on one side – versus Muslims on the other. This was soon followed by the racial crisis in the predominantly Hindu principality of Poonch district of Kashmir that led to the Hindu Maharaja using his Sikh troops to quell a rebellion spurred by former Muslim soldiers of the British Army of India who were denied employment in the Maharaja’s army after the end of World War II. The inconsiderate suppression of the Muslims in Poonch stirred the sentiments of Afghan tribesmen when the news reached them. The rest is history – Pakistani tribesmen swept into Kashmir valley in waves of surprise, covertly aided and abetted by the Pakistani army under the leadership of Mohammed Ali Jinnah.


    India watched while the USA gave military aid and armaments to Pakistan through the 1950s owing to their participation in CENTO and SEATO. President Ayub Khan received a red carpet treatment in 1961 when he visited USA, and was hosted by President John Kennedy who proclaimed Pakistan as a vital ally of USA. The military aid to Pakistan brought it armaments superior to those in the Indian arsenal, thereby making a relatively smaller Pakistan equal in military might to India. This caused only disconsternation and sorrow in India, which was further not helped by the poor foreign policy of India that put it squarely opposite the Western nations.

    Not learning from any conflict episode, Pakistan simply starts new conflict episodes from time to time. Cross-border incursions take place on a daily basis.

    Thus, Pakistan was emboldened enough to claim parts of the Rann of Kutch in April 1965, and launched a limited military offensive there. This morphed into Operation Gibraltar in Kashmir and the full-blown invasion of India in September 1965. The uneasy calm after a serious conflict continued into 1971, which saw Pakistan dismembered. But, Pakistan’s Bhutto made a fool of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in Simla in 1972; and after India’s Pokhran explosion in 1973, vowed to eat grass if they had to in order to posses nuclear weapon capability on par with India. This, Pakistan succeeded in doing.

    Undeniably, Pakistan has been a thorn in India’s side ever since independence. They have not only failed to stop their shenanigans, but after taking a decade to recover from the 1971 humiliation, they were back to seeking revenge. The 1986 Hazratbal mosque episode, when a hair of the Holy Prophet Mohammed disappeared from the shrine, sparked another outrage that brought active Pakistani interference into Kashmir. This time, Pakistan began a furtive campaign to induct terrorists into Kashmir. Since then, Pakistan has bled India not simply by a thousand cuts, but by the thorn they were that was left by Great Britain in India’s left side. Pakistan consequently proved itself to be a terrorist nation with the LET and Jaish Mohamed outfits, etc. The Kashmir actions culminated last in the ill-fated Kargil war, which amounted to blatant aggression by Pakistan, and had India choked if Pakistan had pressed its advantage.

    No sooner did the internal debate on Kargil simmer down that an attack on India’s Parliament was launched by Pakistani-trained elements. It was simply too bad that the USA asked India to pull back at the 11th hour from its armor thrust into Rajasthan during Operation Parakram after its satellites picked up Indian tank movements there charging towards the Pakistani border across Barmer district.

    Each time a violent episode ends, India thinks Pakistan will come to terms with India as a brother would, but each time Pakistan rears up its head in anger again.

    Not learning from any conflict episode, Pakistan simply starts new conflict episodes from time to time. Cross-border incursions take place on a daily basis. As if Pakistan had not had enough, it executed the 26/11 hostage crisis. Pakistan is brave in its dealings with India, but such bravado can also be classified as madness. Perhaps Pakistan does have a death wish, and perhaps Pakistan must collapse, because as the saying by Euprides goes, “Those whom the Gods would destroy they first drive mad.”

    All the Reasons to Invade Pakistan

    Pakistan, which was born out of hatred for secular India, has pushed its thorn deeper into India’s side. Every day is marked by tension and animosity – either by word, rhetoric, or/and physical violence on the ground. This has continued unabated every day for 65 years. In 2012 alone, the media reported 117 cross-border military violations by Pakistan; but the real number when undetected infiltration is taken into account is much more. This is not healthy for either nation, but definitely not for India, even though Pakistan might find a holy mission in it. Each time a violent episode ends, India thinks Pakistan will come to terms with India as a brother would, but each time Pakistan rears up its head in anger again.

    There is a sign in this, and it does not portent well for the weaker nation. It should therefore be understood that India needs no new reason to invade Pakistan. Neither does it need a new excuse – Pakistan has given India enough excuses over a 65 year period – and continues to give India an excuse on a daily basis through its cross border incursions, rhetoric, and overtly working against India at international fora. By all accounts, any day is morally good enough for India to invade Pakistan. India has no moral blemish to restrain it, and will be fighting a morally justified war any time it does plan to go to war.

    Military Perspective of a War

    It beats me how Pakistan can ever dream of equaling India in strength and economic power – now or in the coming time to come. With the changing world environment, where Pakistan’s ISI is suspect in the CIA, and with a China that is lunging towards a collision course with the USA, the chances of Pakistan pinning India to the ground are receding. And those who think that China’s meteoric rise has put it on par with the United States are very sadly mistaken.

    Remember, that in 1971, India was ready for a Chinese attack, which never came. Though the Chinese military is relatively stronger now compared to 1971…

    Some would argue that India’s military lacks specific military equipment – such as surface to air missiles, night vision goggles, insufficient ordnance, or adequate 155 mm howitzers. India also suffers from an unfortunate degradation in officer quality. While some of this may be true, the fact is that Pakistan’s military isn’t faring any better, either. The Pakistani army also falls short in many areas, not the least of which is a stemming conflict between its Islamist officers and those with a more modern outlook. Pakistan, too, is limited in its ordnance inventories. Thus, in squaring off with India, and considering the size of its military compared to India, Pakistan still comes off at second best.

    Then, there is the China factor. Well, China would think thrice before attempting to physically interfere in a Pakistan-India war. First, China lacks the military muscle to inflict a serious defeat on India at short notice, especially when the war with Pakistan is fought in the winter. Next, China is most conscious of its international reputation, knowing quite well that the world will not take kindly to China’s military interference in a Pakistan-India war. The US and Russian factors that will restrain China from interfering are also significant. However, the bottom line is that China currently lacks the military might with the predominant troop and equipment superiority to inflict any long lasting or serious damage to India during a Pak-Indian conflict. Nor can China’s navy operate far from home in the Indian Ocean – and definitely not with its outdated submarines that will be outclassed by India’s anti-submarine warfare. China’s airforce has limited capabilities in having to take off from high altitude airfields in Tibet. Hence, India cannot be militarily threatened in any meaningful way by China.

    Remember, that in 1971, India was ready for a Chinese attack, which never came. Though the Chinese military is relatively stronger now compared to 1971, it has not gone beyond the threshold to battle effectively in the Himalayas against an Indian nation that is now prepared to take on China, notwithstanding China’s economic miracle. And, it comes as a saving grace to India that the West does not sell armaments to China.

    The aspect of nuclear conflict is often introduced into such debates. Well, will Pakistan be the first to use nuclear weapons, because India has a firm no-first-use policy? Is Pakistan morally bankrupt? Is Pakistan’s threat to use nuclear weapons an empty threat knowing full well that India will retaliate massively till Pakistan perishes? Does Pakistan want to use nuclear weapons when India surely doesn’t? Will Pakistan really stoop to the level of nuclear war? Hence, it appears likely – with predominant evidence – that Pakistan will not sink to the level of nuclear conflict, and that it’s threats are mere bluffs. But, people ask: “what if Pakistan does use nuclear weapons?” The answer could be “What if Pakistan doesn’t use nuclear weapons: wouldn’t you have lost an opportunity?” An alternate answer: “Do you wish to continue living in fear, under threat? Is that correct living and good karma?” Yet another answer: “We would rather live in peace; nuclear war is not our choice, but if imposed on us, we will have no choice but to retaliate.” And, yet another answer, “Capitulating under threat is not a choice: the conflicts should be settled by conventional means, or else conflict initiated by Pakistan should cease.”

    [​IMG]
    Map depicting export of terrorism from Pak soil

    There is another important reason to invade Pakistan. As USA plans to withdraw in 2014, a severe vacuum is going to be left in that northwest region. Thus, to prevent China from filling this vacuum and linking up with Pakistan, it is vitally important for India to interject itself in Gilgit. Whereas, Chinese forces are already in Baltistan, with speculation that Pakistan may have leased Baltistan to China, it is all the more important for India to physically put itself between China and Pakistan. In fact, even Baltistan is not out of bounds for Indian forces to enter, notwithstanding that Chinese troops are already there. Consequently, India has to take the bold steps of invading Pakistan, no matter what the preparation status of its military forces. Not invading the Gilgit area and interjecting itself between China and Pakistan, not cutting off the Karakoram Highway, and not preventing the transmission of oil from Gwadar to Tibet, simply endangers India. The threat from this to India is significant. Hence, India must become physically present in Gilgit, and wake up sooner to this necessity than later.

    Pakistan is legitimately scared of an Indian invasion, for it should be. Only “the guilty are afraid,” as a common saying goes, and Pakistan has accumulated enough guilt over the years.

    Further, an invader always has the initial advantage in war. Note that the British took pre-emptive torpedo action against the Argentinean battleship, General Belgrano, before it could potentially damage British battleships with French Exocet missiles, in the Falklands war of 1982. Margaret Thatcher herself gave approval for this attack. This action eliminated the primary threat to British dominance in that war. Thus, an invader can strike successfully without warning, at day or night, summer of winter, weekday or holiday, at a location of his choosing, with all the planning that needs to go into it. This can catch the defender off-guard, thus destroying much of the defender in the initial stages, allowing later waves of invasion to roll forward on the advantages gained initially, especially if overwhelming force is used. Moreover, India may think Pakistan is prepared, much as we think we are unprepared, but both those perspectives are false. Pakistan is in a cauldron, and the time to strike is now.

    Pakistan is legitimately scared of an Indian invasion, for it should be. Only “the guilty are afraid,” as a common saying goes, and Pakistan has accumulated enough guilt over the years. So yes, Pakistan should be wary of an Indian invasion for it will come one day. But, Pakistan should also be aware that nothing it can do could ward it off against a determined India.

    The Diplomatic and Polictical Perspective

    The political and diplomatic perspectives are altogether a different issue with India. It often seems that Indian diplomats and politicians live in a world different to the real world that everyone else lives in. Consequently, politicians engaged in internal corruption are unable to grasp or understand the intricacies of war and technology; they remain lost to the world, exemplified by the fact that India lived in an idealistic and idyllic Nehruvian era that forsook Western technology and economic growth for the sake of stubborn independence that took us into the Soviet orbit and also into frying pan with China in 1962. The non-alignment policies just made us drift further away from those who enjoyed economic growth and democratic lifestyles of the modern era. India moved further into isolation in the 1970s by making neither any headway in internal growth nor any significant breakthrough in being accepted into the community of nations, while China was well ahead on its long march in that direction after President Nixon opened China to the world and loosed the dreaded dragon. And India was held back only by its own retrograde ideology, which, mind you, it has not given up totally even now. Much of this retrograde thinking is not only in the heads of politicians, but also in the minds of bureaucrats, the common man, the educated intellectual, and the communists of India, among other, from whom the political leaders arise.

    The powerful Indian tiger has been enslaved to the lust of the politicians who sacrifice national honor for the sake of raping Mother India of its meager resources and incomes.

    The psychology of India’s leaders is probably everything to be ashamed of, and when combined with the advice given to the politicians by foreign policy advisors (recall Pannikar, the former ambassador to China during Nehru’s time who probably encouraged the communist invasion of India rather than to the contrary), ensures that India will not rise, let alone raise its head. The powerful Indian tiger has been enslaved to the lust of the politicians who sacrifice national honor for the sake of raping Mother India of its meager resources and incomes. It is surprising why a strong democratic revolution has not yet matured at the ballot box, and why politicians are allowed to loot the treasury in every Indian state, let alone the center.

    Politicians have exploited the basic fear that humans possess genetically, and thus have exploited the Indian public to rule over them like the British ruled India. The “brown sahibs” replaced the “white sahibs”. The poor man is denied honest opportunity, and the bureaucrats aid and abet the concentration of Indian politicians on internal theft rather than external dangers. The political mind has been mutilated, and the psychology of India’s leaders permanently disabled, such that they behave as mentally deficient people of weak character.

    In the immediate aftermath of receiving the mutilated bodies of Indian soldiers in the new year of January 2013, the Indian foreign minister went on record as saying that the government will not be moved by calls of revenge, that Pakistan needs to “explain” why it did what it did. Rather than follow the mood of the people who elected them, and in wanting to settle the conflict by words rather than bullets, the current government is once again demonstrating that it would rather sell itself to the enemy rather than confront it. Time and time again over the last 65 years, the Indian government has thought it is more expedient to capitulate to the enemy rather than fight it. From a perspective of national honor, this is utterly shameful.

    With this type of psychology at the highest levels, India can scarcely hope to succeed or defeat the Islamist and terroristic threats. In fact, this type of psychology further foments internal rebellion, such as is being witnessed by India in virtually every state, in contrast to enabling the Indian public to join to defeat the external threat. All that the Indian government can ever do is go to war against its own citizens who don’t have the big guns like its enemies do. Thus, India has easily gone to war in Nagaland, Mizoram, Punjab, and other places and behaved in brutal and cowardly manners there. But against its real, external enemies, India doesn’t dare enough. Thus, the Indian governments have consecutively proven that they are tigers against their own citizens, but paper tigers against their real, external enemies.

    The white sahibs were replaced by the brown sahibs. The poor man is denied honest opportunity, and the bureaucrats aid and abet the concentration of Indian politicians on internal theft rather than external dangers.

    In this regard, India’s greatest enemy is India itself. Forget about slaying the Chinese dragon or quelling Islamic forays into Kashmir: India has to arrest its own self before it can march into the Northwest and come into its own in resurrection of the ancient Mauryan empire that reached to the Hindu-koh mountains in Afghanistan, and had its culture permeate the entire Southeast Asia.

    At times, hoping to resurrect the past can be seen as a pipedream, much as the Arabs who hope to resurrect their 10th to 12th century peak in world domination. This is because the Arabs have neither the industrial infrastructure nor the military discipline of the type that India has. In contrast, India has the necessary potential to overcome its adversaries to the Northwest and project itself as a regional power to contend with, rather than have a small Pakistan check India’s rise to its ultimate destiny.

    Conclusion

    India has a permanent reason and a great opportunity to invade Pakistan and finish it forever. History is on India’s side in this regard, since never in history was there a nation called Pakistan. India needs no excuse to invade Pakistan, since it has an excuse every day, and Pakistan keeps giving India more reasons without interruption. Thus, India needs to finish Pakistan to allow itself to grow and come into itself to contribute to the world. But, India is held back by the madness and lust of Indian politicians who rule India like the British did with the connivance of its opportunistic bureaucrats – whether in the IAS or engineering services or any government department. Therefore, the biggest enemy that India has is India itself, though it has the potential to become a regional and world power if it shows only a little bit of guts for national honor.

    Indian Strategic Studies: Should India Invade Pakistan?
     
  6. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    The underlying message of these protests – be it Anna Hazare or Ramdev or Kejriwal or Sangeeta, Radhika, Madhulika, Meena or Jyoti is the same, even if our screaming, sometimes hysterical media misses it! THE PEOPLE ARE CRYING OUT FOR BETTER GOVERNANCE! Every scandal – be it the CWG, 2G, 3G, Coalgate, Kodankulam or FDI, is a nail in our crumbling wall. When your intestines are bleeding, your women being raped, your fishermen are being shot by drunk Italian Guards as sport, and all you do is make shrill noises on TV, do you seriously expect the enemy sitting beyond your gate to shake his head in sympathy or do you expect him to hit you even harder. If he takes away your heads, it anguishes us today. But as we have regularly demonstrated, we will do nothing about it.

    darn true.
     
    Raj30 likes this.
  7. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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  8. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    aur kasoor war hum ha

    *NO third party to bring out the truth
    *No proof of soldier beheading given to pak army at the meeting

    how do they expect us to believe whatever they say?
     
    Agnostic Muslim likes this.
  9. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Lot of Hogwash here, especially comment about India fishermen men being shot by Italian Guards. I expect the Guards were acting in good faith just as the american once were when they shot at a Indian ship heading towards a war ship. India is I expect doing what they need to do and that is discover what was behing the killing of the two Indian Soldiers,,,, if you go to war, you need to be damm sure about what you are going to war over and exactly what you intend to accomplish.

    Pakistan needs to take action and come clean on their side if they even know about what happen and take responsibility, Though I doubt from the US experience that is ever going to happen. Pakistanis never took responsiblity for anything in their life.
     
  10. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    Listen mate, We are not interested in your proofs. We have already found you guilty for all your transgressions. And retribution you will get.
     
  11. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    Pakistan operating against the LeJ? good joke

    Just yesterday the government admitted that the ISI and MI could not track LeJ phone numbers for as long as two years back. This reeks of state complicity.
     
  12. sukhish

    sukhish Senior Member Senior Member

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    you are very found of third party seems like. don't worry soon you would get a chance to get third party.
     
  13. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Dear Indians,

    Pakistan goal is to conquer you and convert/kill all you dirty infidels.

    Its should not be surprising that they resort to all sort of tricks to bleed your country,but the greatest thing is our (incl me) passiveness each they pee on us we just adjust and move on.

    Pakistanis won't stop bleeding this country yet you let their singers fvck in here, same goes for their leaders (musharraf,IK etc).

    It mostly of no use to speak because I know this will not do anything so better accept the fact that more of us will continue dying and PM will send his love letters to Pak.
     
  14. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    since your not interested in proof's
    than
    don't expect anything from our side as well

    as your official statements are not the words of gospel which we will agree with without any proof or 3rd party investigation
     
  15. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are trying death by 1000 cuts. Did you forget the 1971 amputation we did to you? Next time it will be a lot better and more surgical. Where do you wish to live? In a country called Sind or Balochistan or In Afghanistan. Pakjab surely wont exist. I think your best bet is Arabian sea.
     
  16. aerokan

    aerokan Regular Member

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    What are u gonna do with the proofs? Is pakistan gonna act on it? Or as usual says the cops/armed forces words can't be taken as proof of guilt in a crime according to the judiciary.

    How many criminals(read pak special ops commandos) you know would take proofs with them and leave the scene with the video of how they beheaded the enemy soldiers and post it on youtube? There is something called as proof by deduction. Or do u expect everyone to think Indians themselves did the beheading of soldiers and alleging Pakis did it? When was the last time Pakis took the proofs and not ask for more and more even when there is enough incriminating evidence?

    What else can i do to convince a person who is residing in Abbottabad?? :shoot:
     
  17. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    because the proof ie the head is with your militia or army whatever you call it.
     
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