Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understands'

pmaitra

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rock127

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Yep, it is a normal coincidence that some people were wearing skull caps. :)

Are you comparing Muslims with Jews?
 

pmaitra

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Are you comparing Muslims with Jews?
Nope, I am simply comparing one man wearing a skull cap with another man wearing a skull cap, because, you mentioned the skull cap.
 

rock127

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Nope, I am simply comparing one man wearing a skull cap with another man wearing a skull cap, because, you mentioned the skull cap.
Ok so give examples of Jews caught in terrorist activities... at least in India.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Will speak in the language India understands, warns Pak defence min

Amid a war of words between India and Pakistan over cross-border firing, Pakistan's Defence Minister has alleged that India wants to keep his country busy in a "low-intensity war". "India wants to keep us busy in a low-intensity war or low-intensity engagement on our eastern border. They are pursuing the same tactics of keeping our forces busy on all fronts...," Defence Minister Khawaja Asif told reporters outside the Parliament Saturday.

Asif also appeared to threaten India with retaliation over the killing of Pakistani soldiers in cross-border firing, saying the country will now "communicate in the language they understand".

"In the past six-seven months, we have tried to better our ties with India so that peace can prevail. But it seems that they do not understand this language," Asif said.

"I believe, we will now communicate with India in the language they understand," he said.

Asif's remarks came after four Pakistani rangers were killed in BSF's strong retaliation after a jawan of the force lost his life in heavy firing from the other side on a patrol on December 31 along the International Border in Jammu and
Kashmir's Samba district.

"Day before yesterday's incident has been taken up at every level from the army's side. The issue was taken up at the very location of firing, then we established contact from one post to the other," Asif said.

"After that we took up the issue at the level of rangers and BSF, than at the DGMO level, we also explored the diplomatic channel. We have taken up the issue at every possible level," he said.

India denies Pak allegations

Meanwhile India has dismissed allegations made by Islamabad about the killing of two Pakistani Rangers in the BSF firing on the International Border in the Jammu.

External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj wrote to Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's Advisor on Foreign Affairs and National Security Sartaj Aziz, dismissing contentions made by him in his letter of 2nd January 2015 to her.

Swaraj stated that the incidents on December 31 in Jammu sector commenced when routine BSF patrol, flying an identifying flag came under sniper fire from a Pakistan border post, which resulted in death of one Indian security personnel and serious injuries to another.

She asked Islamabad to adhere to mechanisms that have been evolved to ensure peace and tranquility on the International Border and Line of Control.

Frightened villagers stay away

The Jammu and Kashmir border was quiet Sunday, a day after Pakistani shelling killed two Indian soldiers and a civilian and forced hundreds to flee their homes along the frontier.

Although no firing or shelling was reported Sunday, frightened villagers chose to stay away in makeshift camps in Samba and Kathua districts where they have been sheltered, an official said.

"Since yesterday evening there has been no ceasefire violation by the Pakistani troops on the international border in the two districts," a senior official told IANS.

Around 1,400 villagers who fled their homes Saturday due to indiscriminate shelling by Pakistan Rangers were still camped at safer places away from their homes, the official added.

They were in camps at Hiranagar, Chan Kahtriyan and Maren in Kathua district and at Regaal and Chichi Mata in Samba district.

Two soldiers and a woman were killed and 10 injured Saturday in two incidents of Pakistan shelling and firing on the international border and the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print/1303242.aspx?s=p
© Copyright © 2013 HT Media Limited. All Rights Reserved.
Will speak in language India understands: Khawaja Asif

So the skirmishing across the LoC and the international border is getting to the stage of artillery shelling. I'm no expert, but I would think that shelling between the Indian and Pak armies is dangerously escalating such skirmishes.
 

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Does the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) deploy its own artillery to fire across the LoC or the international border? Or is all artillery deployed by the Indian Army?
 
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Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Jammu Kashmir

Posted at: Jan 3 2015 12:07PM

5 Rangers die as India responds to Pak border fire

Jammu, January 2

Pakistan tonight resorted to heavy mortar shelling and firing on several BSF posts along the International Border in Samba and Kathua districts of Jammu and Kashmir, drawing a strong retaliation from India that left two Pakistan Rangers dead.

BSF sources said they had got reports that five Rangers had been killed in the exchange of fire since Thursday, with two casualties post 9.30 pm. Today's ceasefire violation was the fourth by the Rangers in as many days and eighth in the past nine days.

BSF Director General DK Pathak, who briefed Home Minister Rajnath Singh at 10 pm said the force had thwarted a "major infiltration attempt" from across the border tonight and his troops were on high alert.

Singh had ordered the BSF to respond with "appropriate" action following continuous ceasefire violation. The Home Minister said the firing was unprovoked.

Earlier, the Home Minister said there was no doubt that Pakistan was trying to push militants into J&K and giving cover to such attempts by continuous firing along the border.

A senior police officer in Jammu said: "Pakistan Rangers resorted to heavy firing and mortar shelling along the IB in Samba and Hiranagar sectors of J&K since 9.35 pm." Also, BSF Inspector General Rakesh Sharma said all BoPs falling in three battalion areas of Samba and Hiranagar were being fired upon by Pakistan amid mortar shelling. Mortar shelling had also hit civilian areas, he said. — PTI

Resolution against India
Pakistan's political leaders on Friday adopted a resolution against India, condemning the killing of four Pakistan soldiers in BSF firing on December 31. The All Parties Conference, which met in Islamabad, took dim view of the incident in which Rangers were killed. A statement by the Prime Minister's Office said the "cowardly and unethical act" of the BSF was in violation of international norms.
5 Rangers die as India responds to Pak border fire
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Does the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) deploy its own artillery to fire across the LoC or the international border? Or is all artillery deployed by the Indian Army?
According to Wiki the heaviest guns the BSF deploys are:

81 mm Mortar
51mm Mortar
120mm Mortar
105mm Light Field Gun

So they have their own mortars, which can be classed as infantry weapons, and a 105mm field gun, so they do have light artillery.

Border Security Force
 
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ladder

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Does the Indian Border Security Force (BSF) deploy its own artillery to fire across the LoC or the international border? Or is all artillery deployed by the Indian Army?
BSF Artillery consists of 105mm field gun ( about 200/300 nos. from different estimates) and 120mm mortars. BSF needs specific permission to use them.

81 mm mortar and 60mm mortars are not classified as artillery equipment. In the present context/ firing those two ( 81/60) mortars are being used by both sides.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

BSF Artillery consists of 105mm field gun ( about 200/300 nos. from different estimates) and 120mm mortars. BSF needs specific permission to use them.

81 mm mortar and 60mm mortars are not classified as artillery equipment. In the present context/ firing those two ( 81/60) mortars are being used by both sides.
I take it the shelling across the LoC by the Pakistan Rangers is mortar fire, and not artillery fire.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

Yes, media is clueless.
Quite right, the media are clueless. Technically if it's mortar fire across the LoC, the Pak Rangers and the BSF are not "shelling" each others' positions but mortaring each others' positions. Nothing like a good old-fashioned beat-up in the press to make the whole thing sound more dramatic.
 

rock127

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

According to Wiki the heaviest guns the BSF deploys are:

81 mm Mortar
51mm Mortar
120mm Mortar
105mm Light Field Gun

So they have their own mortars, which can be classed as infantry weapons, and a 105mm field gun, so they do have light artillery.

Border Security Force
This was the latest news about mortars for BSF, not sure about the timeline or it has started flowing in already.

Indo-Pak border: BSF to get over 700 automatic firing systems | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

The largest border guarding force of India, which has close to 20 artillery units for combat duties along the western theatre, has decided to procure the most advanced Automated Mortar Fire Direction Controller (AMFDC) which helps troops to fire targeted mortars and explosive shells on enemy positions.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

It looks like the Pakistanis are engaging in small-arms fire and and mortar fire missions along the LoC to stir things up in advance of Obama's visit on 26 Jan. 15. Or perhaps try to clear the BSF from along certain sections of the LoC.

How many BSF personnel are casualties so far?
 
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rock127

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

It's a well known fact that before any US high command visit(specially Prez) these Pakis try to do something to get attention.

This time same story but additionally they are frustrated why Obama refused to visit Pakistan citing "safety" concerns.So now they are gonna try to do something to prove India is not safe either and even try so Obama cancel his visit.
 

ladder

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

It looks like the Pakistanis are engaging in small-arms fire and and mortar fire missions along the LoC to stir things up in advance of Obama's visit on 26 Jan. 15. Or perhaps try to clear the BSF from along certain sections of the LoC.

How many BSF personnel are casualties so far?
Reason is sometime difficult to determine. And many times there is more than a singular reason. Yes, President Obama's visit is one as Pakistan has a history of stirring or trying to stir the situation before or during the visit of POTUS.

When Obama called up PM Pak to tell him that he is visiting India but not Pakistan, PM Pak urged him to discuss Kashmir with India. Now, why would POTUS discuss Kashmir with India if every thing is silent and incident free in Kashmir when President visits/ about to visit India?

2 BSF personnel and 2 Indian Army ( at LC against fire of Pak Army) have been killed in the latest series of Ceasefire violations.
 

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

New Delhi, January 2, 2015

India pounds Pakistani Rangers into submission on International Border

An aggressive India has stared down Pakistan after pounding Pakistani locations on the International Border and inflicting heavy casualties. Emboldened by a change of guard at the Centre that has given them the go ahead to never back down and reply to every instance of Pakistani aggression with even more aggression, Indian commanders cold shouldered their counterparts who sought to open channels of communication to ease tension.

In the last three days there has been heavy exchange of fire along the International Border in Jammu sector. In a fresh ceasefire violation, Pakistan Rangers targeted 13 border outposts in Samba sector on New Year's Eve drawing sharp reaction from India.

The Border Security Force (BSF) also retaliated, resulting in exchanges which continued till 0600 hours on Thursday morning. On Wednesday, one BSF jawan was killed and another injured in firing by Pakistan on Regal post in Samba.

As Pakistani Rangers suffered casualties, with five men dead and two critically injured, they waved white flags asking the BSF to stop the firing so that they can lift the bodies of their dead and safely take away the injured. Honouring their request, the BSF stopped the firing and allowed them to come to the border line and lift the bodies.

But Indian commanders made it clear to Pakistan that there is no scope for a dialogue. Highly-placed sources said repeated attempts by Pakistani authorities to have a dialogue with the Indian security channels were turned down after the BSF hit back, killing Pakistani Rangers personnel and destroying terror launch pads across the border.

"Our jawans are protecting the border with all their might. No one can dare cast an evil eye on India. Even if someone tries to do so, the BSF and other security forces will give them a fitting reply," said Home Minister Rajnath Singh.

According to intelligence inputs, 120-140 terrorists were put on standby to infiltrate into India. "We have spotted around five terrorists who were making attempts to cross over but heavy firing from our side pushed them back," said a senior government official.

During an offensive launched by the BSF on terrorist hideouts across the border at Abhiyal Dogra, around 25-30 militants who were stationed there managed to escape the firing.

Reaching out

Sources said after India responded firmly with heavy firing and shelling, the Pakistani forces went on the back foot and their authorities were forced to speak to the Indian establishment. "They were posing as victims. But we have made it clear that unless ceasefire violations and infiltration attempts do not stop, India is not willing to talk," the official added.

Pakistan had summoned Indian Deputy High Commissioner in Islamabad on Wednesday alleging that India had violated the ceasefire.

After the BSF's retaliation, Pakistan wanted the Indian government to intervene. Sources said the BSF was instructed to give a befitting reply and that India has been made clear to Pakistan that they should be prepared for collateral damage if it continues with ceasefire violations. India will also launch a strong protest with Pakistan over fresh ceasefire violations at the International Border, officials said.

"Islamabad does not seem to learn any lesson. Pakistan does not like to stay quiet even on New Year day. They started (cross-border) firing at 12.30 pm and don't seem to learn (any) lesson," Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said at an event in Bengaluru.

Meanwhile, Director General, BSF, D.K. Pathak briefed Rajnath Singh and Home Secretary Anil Goswami on Thursday on the developments and India's strong response.

All through 2014 there had been a series of skirmishes along the International Border. Over 550 incidents of ceasefire violations by Pakistan took place last year, the highest since the truce came into force in 2003. Nearly 30,000 people were displaced following one of the worst violations by Pakistan between August and October, 2014, leaving several civilians as well as security personnel injured.

Intelligence inputs indicated that ceasefire violations were planned to ensure infiltration of terrorists.

According to Home Ministry data there have been around 140 infiltration attempts in 2014, of these nearly 45 have taken place in the past three months. The Home Ministry had directed the BSF to intensify vigil along the International Border amid intelligence reports that more terrorists from across the border will make efforts to infiltrate.

India shifts tack to eye-for-eye as Pak keeps up hostility

The international Border in Jammu has flared up once again with the Border Security Force (BSF) retaliating strongly after one of its soldiers was killed in unprovoked firing by Pakistan Rangers on Wednesday.

The fresh ceasefire violations on New Year's Eve as well as Thursday were in line with the trend witnessed last year wherein the International Border (IB) emerged as the new hot spot of confrontation instead of the Line of Control (LoC).

The security establishment is perplexed about the motive behind Pakistan opening up the IB as another front in the border conflict, though offering cover to infiltrators is believed to be the primary motive for the unprovoked firing. There is a basic difference between the ceasefire violations along the LoC and the IB. The firing on the LoC by Pakistan Army is mostly localised. But on IB, the Pakistan Rangers have been known to target a much wider area. For example, Thursday's attack saw them open fire on 13 border outposts.

A security official puts it down to a question of mental ascendancy-the battle to send a strong message. There has been a marked change in the Indian approach in dealing with ceasefire violations. The BJP government has given local commanders a free hand to answer any provocation with full might. The result of the order is that India has managed to inflict heavy damage every time the neighbour rained shells and bullets on our territory.

The BSF is using 81 mm mortars to retaliate, which in itself means an escalated response. It is the heaviest weapon carried by the infantry battalion and is reasonably effective.

The counter-insurgency grid along the LoC has proved to be effective in checking infiltration. The militants have also been pushed from the IB, as was witnessed in November when four militants dressed in BSF fatigues were killed in Arnia. Officials, however, pointed out that the road infrastructure in J&K has improved vastly, which allows militants freedom to sneak in from any point and melt into the local population.

Officials expect India to continue answering fire with fire in 2015, even though it will depend on the extent to which the Pakistan security establishment seeks to escalate the conflict.

- Mail Today Bureau
India pounds Pakistani Rangers into submission on International Border
 

Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

@ladder: Doubtless, young ladder, you will have noticed in the article "India pounds Pakistani Rangers into submission on International Border" from the Mail Today a higher standard of journalism than that of the article we previously discussed. Note that on first mention of the Border Security Force (BSF) the bracketed initials immediately follow; likewise, first mention of the International Border (IB) and Line of Control (LoC). This is a much better example of Indian English-language journalism. For the uninitiated and someone who has little or no knowledge of the Indo-Pak situation, this article is a clear explanation of events.
 
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Sambha ka Boss

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

More information on the linguistic situation vis a vis Hindi and Urdu. Thanks.
If you want to know more, I can tell you more. In simple word they are same language but kept divided artificially due to preferences, thus our film industry users all kinds of vernaculars related to Hindi or Urdu. The division was triggered during British rule in mid 1800s. Pakistan promoted Urdu(with just 3% speakers in 1947 that's too migrants from Northern India) as a national language as language was seen as a symbol of nationalism based on their two nation theory and legacy of Mughal rule. Infact, Pakistanis still teach their kids that Urdu came from Central instead of recognizing its native origin from Gangetic plains. I saw almost every Pakistan who ever never heard the terms like Khariboli(the common dialect on which Hindi-Urdu are standardized and became popular as a Hindustani vernacular).
 
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Redhawk

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Re: Pakistan Warns India, will Communicate in 'Language India Understa

If you want to know more, I can tell you more. In simple word they are same language but kept divided artificially due to preferences, thus our film industry users all kinds of vernaculars related to Hindi or Urdu. The division was triggered during British rule in mid 1800s. Pakistan promoted Urdu(with just 3% speakers in 1947 that's too migrants from Northern India) as a national language as language was seen as a symbol of nationalism and legacy of Mughal rule. Infact, Pakistanis still teach their kids that Urdu came from Central instead of recognizing its native origin from Gangetic plains. I saw almost every Pakistan who ever never heard the terms like Khariboli(the common dialect on which Hindi-Urdu are standardized and became popular as a Hindustani vernacular).
Thank you for the additional information, Sambha ka Boss. Excellent filling out of the details on the subject.

But in my first post in reply to you I wasn't requesting more information from you on the linguistic situation. I was simply stating you had provided me with additional information on the Hindi and Urdu from the previous post by ladder on the Hindi-Urdu-language nexus. This has been a classic misunderstanding because I worded it badly and made it unclear. That was my error.

Nonetheless, it is a fortunate error, I do welcome this additional information as gives even greater depth to the knowledge on the matter.

I find it remarkable that the Pakistanis even politicise the origins of Urdu as the national language and refuse to acknowledge Urdu's origin from the Gangetic plains. Everything is political.
 

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