Pakistan: The demon the West created

The Messiah

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KAGK can disagree as much as he wants, the facts are that his views lost in the referendum that was conducted in the NWFP, and the tribes of the tribal areas entered into agreements to become part of Pakistan provided their autonomy was left intact.
Abdul Gafar Khan and the congress boycotted the referendum and despite that you pakis only managed to get 50.1% meaning that 49.9% didn't want to join pakistan. Think what would have happened if both didn't boycott the referrendum!
 

blank_quest

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Khans of Kalat, the rulers of Kalat were never fully independent, there was always a paramount power to whom they were subject. In the earliest times they were merely petty chiefs: later they bowed to the orders of the Mughal emperors of Delhi ... so after the Mughal's surrendered their Sovereignty to Britishers and when Britishers left the authentic Owner was to be whom?? India or Baluch??
 

Cliff@sea

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Thanks for the lecture, but I think whether the identity and ideology of a nation has failed is a question that the citizens of a nation can answer, and the citizens of today's Pakistan, even with the minuscule Baloch insurgency, have chosen to continue as a single State independent of India and Bangladesh.

You can wish and rant all you want about why YOU think the ideology has failed, but at the end of the day it is Pakistani citizens that make that decision, and they have decided the exact opposite of what you believe.
History is witness to the fact that From Its Birth to Dismemberment and in the Numerous Military regimes that filled this gap and after . . .
and also the Landmark NRO that allowed the present Govt to come into existence,

Pakistani citizen's opinion has mattered little . . .

Only issue that has managed ever to unite your Country has been the Hatred for India .
 

blank_quest

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Thanks for the lecture, but I think whether the identity and ideology of a nation has failed is a question that the citizens of a nation can answer, and the citizens of today's Pakistan, even with the minuscule Baloch insurgency, have chosen to continue as a single State independent of India and Bangladesh.

You can wish and rant all you want about why YOU think the ideology has failed, but at the end of the day it is Pakistani citizens that make that decision, and they have decided the exact opposite of what you believe.
by that very logic "its only YOU who think that peaceful existence of Pakistan with India" after Independence was possible as Pakistan was built by different B.S handful eccentric "Maukaparast" "Mohajirs" . by the way Jinnah was a Mohajir too ..who got pakistan by one Type writer and secretary... :troll:
 

Agnostic Muslim

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Abdul Gafar Khan and the congress boycotted the referendum and despite that you pakis only managed to get 50.1% meaning that 49.9% didn't want to join pakistan. Think what would have happened if both didn't boycott the referrendum!
Well then, that was KAGK's fault that he boycotted a democratic and representative process. What might have happened had the boycott not occurred is complete speculation since there is no guarantee that he could have mustered enough people to turn the vote.
 

blank_quest

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History is witness to the fact that From Its Birth to Dismemberment and in the Numerous Military regimes that filled this gap and after . . .
and also the Landmark NRO that allowed the present Govt to come into existence,

Pakistani citizen's opinion has mattered little . . .

Only issue that has managed ever to unite your Country has been the Hatred for India .
if their opinion doesn't matters for their Govt. Why does it matters to us.. hahhaha
 

Energon

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They took away India's land on some Ideological basis and that "Idea" was itself opposing "India as a peaceful co-existential entity". Pak was/is/will be in psychological turmoil with relationship conundrum of India.... "damned if you do , damned if you don't".
India balkanized because it was an extremely weak entity that was not in control of its own destiny. Neutered and colonized it was entirely at the mercy of the dominating third party. The harsh fact of life is that the strong remain intact and the weak break apart. It is pointless to hold on to this grudge when it over and done with. The only way to move forward is to ensure that you don't end up in a similar compromised position ever again.

As I said before, the conflict between India and Pakistan is no longer ideological, it is political. Also over time priorities have changed, territorial conquest no longer holds allure to anyone, revanchism is a dead concept. The only thing that matters now is economic development and improvement of the overall standard of living. Bearing this in mind you can see that the differences between the two countries are by no means intractable provided they are both willing to put aside the differences for mutual benefit.
 

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India balkanized because it was an extremely weak entity that was not in control of its own destiny. Neutered and colonized it was entirely at the mercy of the dominating third party. The harsh fact of life is that the strong remain intact and the weak break apart. It is pointless to hold on to this grudge when it over and done with. The only way to move forward is to ensure that you don't end up in a similar compromised position ever again.

As I said before, the conflict between India and Pakistan is no longer ideological, it is political. Also over time priorities have changed, territorial conquest no longer holds allure to anyone, revanchism is a dead concept. The only thing that matters now is economic development and improvement of the overall standard of living. Bearing this in mind you can see that the differences between the two countries are by no means intractable provided they are both willing to put aside the differences for mutual benefit.
it has become more ideological with political overtones? What does the demand for Sharia law signifies to you ? how are you so sure ? ::frusty:
 

Zarvin

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it has become more ideological with political overtones? What does the demand for Sharia law signifies to you ? how are you so sure ? ::frusty:
Sharia has nothing to do with Two-Nation theory, your mixing both ideologies all up. Regardless, those Sharia parties only got 1% in the elections. You have nothing to worry about.
 

blank_quest

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Sharia has nothing to do with Two-Nation theory, your mixing both ideologies all up. Regardless, those Sharia parties only got 1% in the elections. You have nothing to worry about.
lets see who needs to worry! and :why: :thumb:
 

Energon

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The two nation theory that Muslims cannot live with Hindus has failed at 4 stages in the history of Pakistan.

1) when majority of Indian muslims decided to stay back in India during partition

2) when Bangladesh seceded from Pakistan in 1971

3) When ethnic groups like Balochs want to secede from Pakistan

4) And finally when it has become difficult for Shias, sunnis ans Ahmedis to live together if one goes by the rampant sectarian violence.

No one can deny the possibility that once arch enemies cannot live as peaceful neighbours in the future. But for that to happen Pakistan must shed the ideology of "two nation theory" and pathological hatred against India.
The two nation theory was invalid because the population had survived in its heterogeneous state for a long time prior to the evolution of this theory. And the subsequent discord was triggered by political motives, it essentially became a self fulfilling prophecy. This was never really about ideology it was always political.

Similarly Pakistan's woes aren't really related to a failed ideology, they are a byproduct of epic mismanagement in governance.

Obsessing over the two nation theory in the present day is utterly pointless.
 

Energon

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it has become more ideological with political overtones? What does the demand for Sharia law signifies to you ? how are you so sure ? ::frusty:
Pakistan's Islamization and radicalization was an entirely socially engineered phenomenon that was perpetrated by political leaders for political purposes. Bhutto and Zia wanted to harness Islam and use it as a tool to unify their fractured nation to go up against a political nemesis with whom they were fighting on the battle field and in the UN. Ideology had nothing to do with this. Both these leaders thought that Islam would compensate for the fundamental problems that plagued their society. Remember, exploiting religious sentiment is a far, far easier task than nation building. Needless to say the whole thing failed. What you now see- rampant radicalization, institution of bizarre laws, celebrating murders of public figures who oppose radicalization etc. etc. is merely the byproduct of these misplaced policies.
 
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The Messiah

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Well then, that was KAGK's fault that he boycotted a democratic and representative process. What might have happened had the boycott not occurred is complete speculation since there is no guarantee that he could have mustered enough people to turn the vote.
Enough people ?

He would have only needed 0.2% to turn the tables upside down.
 

blank_quest

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The two nation theory was invalid because the population had survived in its heterogeneous state for a long time prior to the evolution of this theory. And the subsequent discord was triggered by political motives, it essentially became a self fulfilling prophecy. This was never really about ideology it was always political.

Similarly Pakistan's woes aren't really related to a failed ideology, they are a byproduct of epic mismanagement in governance.

Obsessing over the two nation theory in the present day is utterly pointless.
so Quaid-e-Azam is infact a self-fulfilling politically motivated... great :dude:!! hahahaha :
 
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mki

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Pakistan: The demon the West created


August is a month that brings both joy and grief to the 1.3 billion people of the Indian subcontinent. Joy, as we celebrate the end of nearly 200 years of British colonial rule in 1947, and sorrow as we remember the one million who were slaughtered unnecessarily in a genocidal frenzy of religious hatred.

Punjab, my ancestral homeland, was sliced in two by the departing British to create the new state of Pakistan. In a few short months, the entire population of Punjab's indigenous Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan was either slaughtered or driven out by raging mobs of Muslim fanatics. On the other side of the border, there was more bloodshed.

The question often asked is, who penned the partition of India? Who was responsible for carving out Pakistan, a country that seems to have an insatiable appetite for bloodshed, and that has been responsible for, or associated with, more acts of jihadi terrorism then any other country on earth?

From Khalid Sheikh Mohammad's 9/11 plans to the recent recruitment of jihadis in Burma; from the Toronto 18 to the London 7/7 bombings, fingerprints of Pakistan-based jihadi groups and ideologies are ubiquitous.

Conventional wisdom and traditional scholarship dictates, Pakistan came about as a result of Muslim grievances and fear of a Hindu-majority rule in post British India. Mohammad Ali Jinnah and the All India Muslim League are given credit for tapping into this sense of victimhood that still drives much of Islamist anger around the world.

However, there is more to it than meets the eye. On May 5, 1945, the very day Germany surrendered, Prime Minister Churchill ordered an appraisal of "the long-term policy required to safeguard the strategic interests of the British Empire in India and the Indian Ocean." Two weeks later Churchill received the top-secret report that, among other proposals, mentioned the necessity of British presence in Northwest India (today's Pakistan) "from which British air power could threaten Soviet military installations." When this was brought to the attention of Mahatma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, India's Prime Minister and the Congress, they made it clear they would not accept British bases on Indian soil. On the other hand, Muslim League leader Jinnah was amenable to such an idea.

Two months later, Churchill was shockingly defeated by the Labour Party in the election, leaving the task of creating Pakistan for the sake of Western military strategic needs to the socialists.

By June 1947, the decision to amputate India was announced in London. It was left to British foreign secretary Ernst Bevin to explain to his party activists why London would seek to destroy what it had built over 100 years as the "Jewel of the British Crown." Defending the decision that would devastate the lives of millions for decades, Bevin told delegates at a Labour Party Conference that the division of India was necessary because it "would help to consolidate Britain in the Middle East." It's no coincidence that within a few years, the U.S. would establish an air base in Pakistan to launch its high altitude U2 spy aircraft until one day in 1960 when a U2 was shot down over Russia and Gary Powers was captured.

Thus came the great divide on August 14-15, 1947. After partition, the UK handed over the baton to the US ,who invested heavily into Pakistan becoming a frontline anti-communist military state. Today, the USSR is dead, but Pakistan is alive and has become America's demon; one that successive U.S. administrations cannot put back into the bottle.

My next book, "Pakistan: The Demon America Created" dwells in detail the tragic division of India and the monster of Islamism that morphed out of the Cold War and now haunts and hunts its own maker.
Blaming someone else is always weapon of choice for looser.

It was Jinnah and his supporter who are responsible for the partition of India. Don't blame to Brits. They was the foreigner but it was Jinnah and his supporter who have hate toward hindus on their own nation and they asked for partition.

Even after partition, it was personal choice of Pakistan to become pupate of US. Extremism is pakistan's own did.
Why India had not become puppet or extremist!! Its because of its people and their wise thinking and hardwork.
 

Zarvin

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Blaming someone else is always weapon of choice for looser.
I agree, Tarek Fateh is a looser.

It was Jinnah and his supporter who are responsible for the partition of India. Don't blame to Brits. They was the foreigner but it was Jinnah and his supporter who have hate toward hindus on their own nation and they asked for partition.
Jinnah didn't hate Hindus mate. He was the strongest advocate of Hindu-Muslim unity until the very end.
Even after partition, it was personal choice of Pakistan to become pupate of US. Extremism is pakistan's own did.
Why India had not become puppet or extremist!! Its because of its people and their wise thinking and hardwork.
Well done India.
 

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