Pakistan Receives Ilyushin-78MP Mid-Air Fuel Tanker from Ukraine

[Soham]

People, don't let your sentiments overrule the nature of your posts. I'm sure we are a more mature crowd than "We're No. 1 !".

 

[sayareakd]

people please stick to topic...................

 

[SSG VIPER]

DETAILS OF PAKISTAN AIRFORCE MORDENIZATION PLAN BELOW:
Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief of Staff Tanveer Mehmud Ahmad gave an interview to AFM and was published in the September 2008 issue.

-By 2015, PAF would comprise 240 JF-17, 60 F-16's, 40 FC-20's (PAF version of J-10), 50 F-7PG's [for a total of 390 combat aircraft, versus 335 in 2008], along with 4 SAAB Erieye, 4 ZDK-03 (PAF version of Y-8), 4 IL-78 Midas. In 2015 the PAF will remain at its current strength of 15 Squadrons.
The current order status comprised 150 JF-17's, 32 F-16's (variant unspecified), 4 Erieye's, and 4 IL-78.
The Block 52 F-16's will be based at PAF Shahbaz to replace Mirage air defense aircraft.
-The Peshawar based 26 & 16 Squadrons will be the first to convert from A-5 to JF-17 in 2009. Delivery of JF-17 had started and once the assembly facility had been completed at AMF, the induction pace will pick-up to eventually allow delivery of 25-30 aircraft per year to achieve the final numbers by 2015 [this makes no sense, with a 30/year production rate only yielding about 150 aircraft by 2015, not the stated 240]. The 150 JF-17's are expected to equip 7 or 8 squadrons.
-The FC-20 order would be confirmed in 2009. The current J-10 technology was not up to PAF requirements, and PAF hoped to include western equipment in the J-10. This would create a different version than the PLAAF J-10, which would be known as FC-20 in PAF service. The FC-20 would not be required to have conformal fuel tanks, since it had sufficient internal fuel capacity as well as AAR by Il-78 Midas tankers. The FC-20 requirement was 2 squadrons of 36-40 single and dual seater aircraft.
-The IL-78 Midas tankers would provide aerial refueling for all PAF fighter aircraft excepttf the US manufactured F-16s. The F-16s can only refuel with a boom system, and the Midas will be equipped with a probe and drogue underwing pods system. First Midas delivery will commence early 2009. PAF is holding out hope that a KC-135 could be acquired from the US in the near future.
-While the Erieye's will datalink the F-16's, they will not be able to do so with the Mirage fleet. The first Erieye will be delivered in 2009, followed by the remainder by 2011. The Chinese origin fighter aircraft will have AEW&C support from the planned acquisition of 4 ZDK-03 (Chinese Y-8 AWACS). The ZDK-03 contract was close to be being finalised for the required 4 aircraft.
-The PAF is acquiring 2 Squadrons of the Italian Falco UAV with coversion taking place for operations from PAF Mushaf and PAF Peshawar. Eventually, the PAF plans to field 5-6 UAV Sqn's.


Also on the PAF Midas

The pakistani midas is a modified air crago version "not an aircraft built as a refueller from scratch". these are 20 yr old airframes bought from surplus ukraininan stock which were then convertyed for air to air refuelling by ukrainain techincians in the ukraine.
@ SSG -These are capable aircraft nevertheless but they are 20+yrs old. they were soviet airforce planes that were transferred to ukraine and then transferred to the PAF i.e they are third hand airframes.You guys should really start checking how much you pay for such aircraft.



my 1000th post

One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:
250-300=JF17s with western avionics and AIESA radar contenders are as i told Vixen from UK,GRIFFOs AIESA or the one used By the french on TYPHOON.
F16s ,MLU,52 block=100 OR ABOVE,, 36 ARE PURCHASED AND ADDITIONAL 18 BE be purchased (NOTE=Im talking about present order,MLU=will be an advanced version equal to Block 52 and these major upgrades will be conducted by TAI of Turkey,just like belgiums and other advanced countries have advanced there jets).
Out of 150 Mirages Almost 50 or 60 which were heavily upgraded by SAGEM and griffo of FRANCE with ROSE programmes will remain active as they have good airframes and are entensively upgraded.
50 or more J7Ps wih BVR and griffos radar and other western upgrades will remain as they were bought in 1998 when Pakistan was under sanction.
Upto 50 JF17 will be made in KAMRA as ethe facility is being expanded for such programmes or developments.
About FC20 it will surely be upgraded from J10B chinas most advanced fighter of 4.5tth generation which was destined to give F16 E block 60 a competition.
About its induction in PAF my friends its a HAPPY NEWS :twizt: during the inaguaration ceremony of JF17 in KAMRA Pakistans defence minister talked about buying FC20 with full TOT and he said that they(CHINESE)were ready to give us the FC 20 with TOT and there were talks reguarding its purchase that means (WHEN YOU GUYS GO FOR UR 126 JETS WE ARE GONNA BUY FC 20 WITH TOT).
About the JOINTLY DEVELOPED SINO-INDUS AWAC sir its initial order is of 4 which may rise to 8 AWACS that im sure off.
About the ilyusin Sir after the USSR broke out of the tiny republic most (military)
industrilizes zones went to Ukraine for example Ukrainians were building T80 russian tanks when they decieded to sell them to PAKISTAN russian came between so they (ukranians) had to sell Pakistan T80UD which had major modifications of T84ud or yatagan for example the turret,battle management system,engine networking system ETC.
About Falco UAV dude its not bought from the italians its a joint venture so its MADE IN PAKISTAN like other PAKISTANI UAVS for example UQAB,BORDER EAGLE ETC and also many private defence companies like intergrated dynamics,Sparco etc also make drones and sell them to suth american countries libiya,egypt,uk,USA etc as they are reliable and affordable,so About 2 squardons man these things are not reported in PAK press unlike ur media?So ur equation is no more then A PLAIN OLD GUESS.
About our ILyusin midas refuellers dudes u are also buying them and customising them just like us.your tankers are customised by just with refuelling pods UNLIKE PAKISTANS tankers which are not just customised with new engines refuelling pods but also avionics and the mass lift capabilities :icon_salut:

 

[SSG VIPER]

pakistan beleives their 1 soldier equals 10 indian soldiers. apply the same logic.
so, their 1 JF-17 equals 10 indian SU- 30MKI's.
simple.

Nobody in PAKISTAN believes 1 PAKISTANI =10 INDIAN soldiers so please dont see too much indian media.

 

[ppgj]

Nobody in PAKISTAN believes 1 PAKISTANI =10 INDIAN soldiers so please dont see too much indian media.

chill mate. it is only for fun.
however i would like to draw your attention to an observation by ahmad faruqui, a distinguished pakistani writer -

Some of the writing about the Indo-Pakistan war of September 1965 borders on mythology. It is no surprise that generations of Pakistanis continue to believe that India was the aggressor and that one Pakistani soldier was equal to 10 Indian soldiers.

www.outlookindia.com | The Guns Of August

do read it.

 

[bhramos]

sayareakd - 12:46 PM 26-12-2009
where you will fly the tanker in the event of war ??? it will be huge target for IAF

Su-30MKI with the help of A-50 AWACS and the KH-31 or K-100 AWACS Killer can find it any where its flying with out intruding into enemy's airspace.

 

[bengalraider]

@ SSG you just said the interview was old i do not deny that it is over a year old, however i have been unable to find any more reports on the internet as to what the future plans of the PAF is, if you claim to know Please enlighten me with source and reference.

Also only new engines does not a new aircraft make, You may be getting what you feel is a better aircraft but that does not change the fact that our planes were built after our order was placed i.e they are completely new and not only the engines but the complete she-bang is new, also the IAF IL-78MKI was built to our specifications and was designed and built as a refueller from day one of it's conception . The PAF midas were acquired from Stock that were built before 1990 i.e they are already 20+yrs old simply upgrading the engines does not and cannot change that. The airframe of an aircraft is it's body they PAF midas have been in storage in the Ukraine for over 20 yrs i.e they were just lying there no matter how much you protect an aircraft with tarpaulins and rust resistant paint the body still gets affected and the core of the airframe still ages.
also the avionics of the aircraft i.e the control wiring ages a lot faster(I believe the PAF avionics upgrade simply looks at the electronics, as most upgrades generally do). Look airframe aging up on the internet if you want to know the subject more .Also the PAF midas wasand this is the second time in as many posts i am typing this) was never designed as a refueller the IL78 PAF is buying started it's life as an IL76 transport in the Soviet air force or if you prefer it in the Voenno-Vozdushnye Sily, it was then modified by the Ukrainians Without support & consultation from the manufacturer Ilyushin to become a refueller.

 

[SSG VIPER]

You are welcome to dig the interview of PAKISTANS defence minister on the anugaration about FC 20 with TOT.About Tankers my friends i would like to know an inependent source of your claims about old tanker.
But no asian defence or global firepower or even wiki.

 

[proud_hindustani]

Pakistan v Hindustan: A Military Fact-Checking Exercise Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz

again you are comparing your military strength to Indian military strength. this thread is not about the comparison of general military strength of two nations. stick to the topic of Ilyushin-78MP Mid-Air Fuel Tanker.

 

[SSG VIPER]

Su-30MKI with the help of A-50 AWACS and the KH-31 or K-100 AWACS Killer can find it any where its flying with out intruding into enemy's airspace.

Goes both ways,SAAB and sino-indus AWACS will hunt em down with you even knowing.:sporty55:

 

[sob]

One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:
250-300=JF17s with western avionics and AIESA radar contenders are as i told Vixen from UK,GRIFFOs AIESA or the one used By the french on TYPHOON.
F16s ,MLU,52 block=100 OR ABOVE,, 36 ARE PURCHASED AND ADDITIONAL 18 BE be purchased (NOTE=Im talking about present order,MLU=will be an advanced version equal to Block 52 and these major upgrades will be conducted by TAI of Turkey,just like belgiums and other advanced countries have advanced there jets).
Out of 150 Mirages Almost 50 or 60 which were heavily upgraded by SAGEM and griffo of FRANCE with ROSE programmes will remain active as they have good airframes and are entensively upgraded.
50 or more J7Ps wih BVR and griffos radar and other western upgrades will remain as they were bought in 1998 when Pakistan was under sanction.
Upto 50 JF17 will be made in KAMRA as ethe facility is being expanded for such programmes or developments.
About FC20 it will surely be upgraded from J10B chinas most advanced fighter of 4.5tth generation which was destined to give F16 E block 60 a competition.
About its induction in PAF my friends its a HAPPY NEWS :twizt: during the inaguaration ceremony of JF17 in KAMRA Pakistans defence minister talked about buying FC20 with full TOT and he said that they(CHINESE)were ready to give us the FC 20 with TOT and there were talks reguarding its purchase that means (WHEN YOU GUYS GO FOR UR 126 JETS WE ARE GONNA BUY FC 20 WITH TOT).
About the JOINTLY DEVELOPED SINO-INDUS AWAC sir its initial order is of 4 which may rise to 8 AWACS that im sure off.
About the ilyusin Sir after the USSR broke out of the tiny republic most (military)
industrilizes zones went to Ukraine for example Ukrainians were building T80 russian tanks when they decieded to sell them to PAKISTAN russian came between so they (ukranians) had to sell Pakistan T80UD which had major modifications of T84ud or yatagan for example the turret,battle management system,engine networking system ETC.

Viper this list is very impressive and does the planners at PAF credit.

However some questions do remain on this wish list. Foremost is cash. China may be willing to finance a large part of your defence purchase but Turkey and other Western Eurpoean countries are going to insist on Hard Cash. This is going to the biggest of your worries. For the near term foreseeable future this is not going to be solved.

Second let us be very clear that you cannot just get up and integrate different electronics and avionics into any aircraft. If and when Pakistan gets an AESA radar from a Western companies, integrating it into JF 17 will require Chinese help as they are the designers and manufacturers of this aircraft. No European country is going to risk their cutting edge technology to fall into the hands of the Chinese.

Also when we talk about TOT please note that for a fighter aircraft there are hundreds of prcision components. I am not sure of the industrial base in Pakistan to support this kind of endeavour. Let me also clarfiy that even India does not have all the necessary infrastructure and we have to depend upon imports from a variety of sources. For small but crucial things like bearings, hydraulics, Electromechanical actuators the source will still remain China.

When I write this , I speak from experience having been involved in these issues for quite some time and I am also aware of the global sources of these components.

My advice to you and all other friends that reading these pronouncements in the papers and internet is one thing, actually seeing it happen is totally different.

 

[SSG VIPER]

Viper this list is very impressive and does the planners at PAF credit.

However some questions do remain on this wish list. Foremost is cash. China may be willing to finance a large part of your defence purchase but Turkey and other Western Eurpoean countries are going to insist on Hard Cash. This is going to the biggest of your worries. For the near term foreseeable future this is not going to be solved.

Second let us be very clear that you cannot just get up and integrate different electronics and avionics into any aircraft. If and when Pakistan gets an AESA radar from a Western companies, integrating it into JF 17 will require Chinese help as they are the designers and manufacturers of this aircraft. No European country is going to risk their cutting edge technology to fall into the hands of the Chinese.

Also when we talk about TOT please note that for a fighter aircraft there are hundreds of prcision components. I am not sure of the industrial base in Pakistan to support this kind of endeavour. Let me also clarfiy that even India does not have all the necessary infrastructure and we have to depend upon imports from a variety of sources. For small but crucial things like bearings, hydraulics, Electromechanical actuators the source will still remain China.

When I write this , I speak from experience having been involved in these issues for quite some time and I am also aware of the global sources of these components.

My advice to you and all other friends that reading these pronouncements in the papers and internet is one thing, actually seeing it happen is totally different.

Thats absolutlely true sir,
But rest assured about the MLU process its already given to the turks from whih we are also buying 4 to 8 MILGEM class corvetts.And yes AIESA will be purchased no doubt about that?Pakistan takes its defence seriously enough and cant lose to let it down,
And about cash thats not an issue when it comes to DEFENCE EQUIPMENT as the army itself own many large industries which generate more then enough profits excluding govt defence budget.
About the JF 17 perhaps you havent heard that PAF sent a F16 and a team of scientists and f 16 and mirage pilots to china to work on JF17 projects so yes we are the designers also but the material resources were used so IT IS A JOINT VENTURE ITS NOT JUST MONEY? even if it goes for the money issue sir 600 million$$ were invested in this project from PAK GOVT and arount 500 million by the chinese.
Reguarding thetechnical difficulties sir PAC kamra has been building trainers like korakoram and Recon planes like super mushak and not to forgt it has been assembly and rebuilding jets for PAF as it houses its own rebuild and assembly complexes.
As of right now 53%of JF17 is being build in PAC kamra and the target of achieving full building capabilities will be concieved till 2011.
Note=PAC kamra is being expanded rapidly to house such programmes.
So ToT of FC-20 will not be such an issue.
Reguarding wests techno fears of CHINA the jet will be built in PAKISTAN so they dont care about it.Problem solved.
:thank_you2:

 

[Rage]

there is a basic diffrence between IAF Midas's and PAF MIDAS's ours is MKIzed its built specfic for India this is just general but still it is a Massive Capability boost for the PAF

even PAF Midas have Tanker / Transport option , it can be converted which and when in need but IAF Midas dont have that option.

The IAF has a fleet of 94 Antonov-An32's (of 104 in service for various uses) each with a payload of upto 6.7 metric tons and a range of upto 1,200 km, and a fleet of 17 IL-76MD, 6 IL-76MKI each with a payload of 95,000 lbs and a range of about 3,100 miles. In addition, six IL-78 mid-air refuellers of the MARS squadron as a shot in the arm in 2003, and a proposal tabled in parliament to buy 6 more aerial refuellers at a cost of USD 1 billion- likely the EADS Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker transport (there's your 'convertible'). What on Gaia's great cunny should we feel maladroit at the lack of a 'convertible' tanker/transporter refueller option for?

To put that into perspective, the Chinese Air force has 82 Shaanxi Y-8 (design derivative of the Soviet An-12), 23 Xian Y-7 / Y-7h (based on the Soviet An-24; Y-7H based on the cold-war era An-26) and 14 Il-76MD's. It has 4 Il-78 air-refueller tankers. A comparison of the two will show you that we are at or better than parity.

True, having a mid-air refueller represents a quantum jump in the PAF's long term capabilities. But it is not something we didn't know would happen, or would not have been led to expect. Besides, the Pakistan air force has a long way to go before a decent number of aircraft are fitted with IFRs. As such, in the short term, they represent only an augmentation of their air-lifting capability.

Reports on defensenews and other credible sources also suggest that earlier reports that Cobham plc (the same company that equipped the US KC-10's with hose and drogue systems, so that they became two, dual-use Multi-Point Refueling Systems capable of both flying boom and hose-and-drogue refuelling) were to equip Pakistan's Il-78s with refueling pods were incorrect. Which is why the pods on the Il-78's are still the Soviet-designed UPAZs, and why the refueling receptacle kits on its refuellable aircraft will have to be yet procured from another third party- likely South Afrikan in origin. Ergo, the Pakistani Air Force still has a long way to go before it can equip a decent number of its receiving aircraft with ARP's, demonstrating an air-refuelling capability.

Now, what does the PAF have now that can be refuelled: only a small number of Mirage III/V's fitted with an air-refuelling probe (presumably under 10). Of the 50 ex-Australian air force Mirage III's that the PAF procured in the early 90's, and the 34 others that the PAF took out of cold storage, that underwent the ROSE program (only 78 were later found to be fit for active service), 20 were upgraded to ROSE-II, and even fewer underwent an upgrade designated ROSE-III. The ROSE-I included new HUDs, MFDs, RWRs and HOTAS controls and the Grifo M3 radar, and the ROSE-II these and the DART IR. Details on the ROSE-III are scarce, but I presume they may have included in-flight refuelling probes. If this be the case, then we may assume a limited number, probably in the vicinity of 10, are equipped to handle aerial refuelling.

The PAF is now beginning to equip under 30 of its ROSE-I designates with aerial refuelling probes, but this is expected to take a good couple of years. In the mean time, the aging airframes of the ex-Australian and ex-Armée de l'Air (French AirForce) Mirage III/V's (the latter procured as far back as between 1967 and 1982) and the fact that the overhauls of the ROSE-II engines were for a "four year and 300 hour" "guaranteed life span, the fact that spare parts cannibalized for the Mirage III/V fighters in PAF service, procured in 2004 were from ex-Libyan air force fighters, and the fact that Mirage III/V fighters are designated to be retired out of service by the mid-2010's, means that its advantage vis-a-vis Mirage A-A refuelling will be short lived.

One thing dude your this intrerview is very old,second till 2015 PAFs groceries list is below:
250-300=JF17s with western avionics and AIESA radar contenders are as i told Vixen from UK,GRIFFOs AIESA or the one used By the french on TYPHOON.
F16s ,MLU,52 block=100 OR ABOVE,, 36 ARE PURCHASED AND ADDITIONAL 18 BE be purchased (NOTE=Im talking about present order,MLU=will be an advanced version equal to Block 52 and these major upgrades will be conducted by TAI of Turkey,just like belgiums and other advanced countries have advanced there jets).
Out of 150 Mirages Almost 50 or 60 which were heavily upgraded by SAGEM and griffo of FRANCE with ROSE programmes will remain active as they have good airframes and are entensively upgraded.
50 or more J7Ps wih BVR and griffos radar and other western upgrades will remain as they were bought in 1998 when Pakistan was under sanction.
Upto 50 JF17 will be made in KAMRA as ethe facility is being expanded for such programmes or developments.
About FC20 it will surely be upgraded from J10B chinas most advanced fighter of 4.5tth generation which was destined to give F16 E block 60 a competition.
About its induction in PAF my friends its a HAPPY NEWS :twizt: during the inaguaration ceremony of JF17 in KAMRA Pakistans defence minister talked about buying FC20 with full TOT and he said that they(CHINESE)were ready to give us the FC 20 with TOT and there were talks reguarding its purchase that means (WHEN YOU GUYS GO FOR UR 126 JETS WE ARE GONNA BUY FC 20 WITH TOT).
About the JOINTLY DEVELOPED SINO-INDUS AWAC sir its initial order is of 4 which may rise to 8 AWACS that im sure off.
About the ilyusin Sir after the USSR broke out of the tiny republic most (military)
industrilizes zones went to Ukraine for example Ukrainians were building T80 russian tanks when they decieded to sell them to PAKISTAN russian came between so they (ukranians) had to sell Pakistan T80UD which had major modifications of T84ud or yatagan for example the turret,battle management system,engine networking system ETC.
About Falco UAV dude its not bought from the italians its a joint venture so its MADE IN PAKISTAN like other PAKISTANI UAVS for example UQAB,BORDER EAGLE ETC and also many private defence companies like intergrated dynamics,Sparco etc also make drones and sell them to suth american countries libiya,egypt,uk,USA etc as they are reliable and affordable,so About 2 squardons man these things are not reported in PAK press unlike ur media?So ur equation is no more then A PLAIN OLD GUESS.
About our ILyusin midas refuellers dudes u are also buying them and customising them just like us.your tankers are customised by just with refuelling pods UNLIKE PAKISTANS tankers which are not just customised with new engines refuelling pods but also avionics and the mass lift capabilities :icon_salut:

There is no way in ROT'S HELL that the PAF is going to get 250-300 JF-17's by 2015. I GUARANTEE you of that. if you're still around by 2015- or I'm still posting on this board, the winner will post the other a cheque of $50,000. Start saving!

Kamra has the capacity to manufacture 12-15 annually. Quoting Tanveer Mahmood Ahmed, "Fifteen aircraft will be manufactured in 2008, while 20 in the next year with the aim to achieve capability to manufacture 25 to 30 aircraft per year."

By the end of 2009, Pakistan has a total of 8 SBP (small batch production) aircraft delivered- 2 in March 2007, 6 in March 2008; and rolled out its first indigenously manufactured bird on 23 November 2009, with a full squadron- 12 presumed to be operational by the end of 2009. In other words, Pakistan has 12 Jf-17's, when it should have had 35. Don't pipe dream.

As for 36 F-16's, the right figure is "32". Of the 40 aircraft delivered under Peacegate I and II, 8 have been written off in various mishaps, hence 32 remain in service.

150 Mirages? hardly? You forget that most of your Mirage III's and V's are a good three-four decades old, and will be phased out of active service by 2015. Unless you have a plan to rapidly acquire 150 out of somewhere, which given the present state of Pakistani finances seems unlikely, 150 Mirages will remain but a mirage.

J-7P's? All websites, including the wikipedia suggest that they will be retired and replaced with Jf-17's by 2015.

The LOA (Letter of Offer and Acceptance) for the 18 Block 52 F-16s was signed between the governments of Pakistan and the United States in 2006. The deal was supposed to have been "fully executed" by 2010. Nearly four years later, there is no word of a single F-16 under that transaction. The only F-16's Pakistan has received so far after the Peacegate I and II debacles were 14 EDA's (Excess defence articles), closely monitored for use in the 'war against terror'.

The FC-1 and the Sino-Indus AWACS are still in development. Let's reserve judgment until we hear somethin' concrete about the issue. Okay, pardner?

 

[bengalraider]

About the JF 17 perhaps you havent heard that PAF sent a F16 and a team of scientists and f 16 and mirage pilots to china to work on JF17 projects so yes we are the designers also but the material resources were used so IT IS A JOINT VENTURE ITS NOT JUST MONEY? even if it goes for the money issue sir 600 million$$ were invested in this project from PAK GOVT and arount 500 million by the chinese.
Reguarding thetechnical difficulties sir PAC kamra has been building trainers like korakoram and Recon planes like super mushak and not to forgt it has been assembly and rebuilding jets for PAF as it houses its own rebuild and assembly complex

So you agree the PAF helped china break IPR laws and reverse-engineer the F-16?
Building trainers is extremely different from building Fighters, the HAL has been building fighters since the HF-24 in the 60's, we still have problems with the LCA, as for trainers and recon aircraft we have been doing that for years as well.
With regards to the Ilyushin buy , The Ilyushin brand is a Russain aircraft manufacturer i.e They have no manufacturing facilities in the Ukraine. the address of Ilyushin is

Full official name of the Company: The Open Joint Stock Company «Ilyushin Aviation Complex».

Shortened Trademark name of the Company: JSC «IL».

Location and mailing address of the Company:
45 "G" Leningradsky Avenue, Moscow, 125190, Russian Federation.

Phone: +7 (499) 943-81-17; 943-81-21.
Fax: +7 (495) 612-21-32.

E-Mail:
[email protected]
[email protected]

Source: The Open Joint Stock Company «Ilyushin Aviation Complex»

About manufacturing facilities of Ilyushin

Experimental Design Bureau,
Moscow


Experimental Production facility,
Moscow


The Flight-Test and Final Development and Maintenance Base (LI&DB),
Zhukovsky, Moscow region


Personnel Training Center (TsPK), the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» subsidiary,
Kamenka, Dmitrov district, Moscow region


The Open Joint Stock Company «IL» Representation Office,
Tashkent (Republic of Uzbekistan)


The Open Joint Stock Company «IL» Representation Office,
Voronezh


The Closed-Type Joint Stock Company «IL-Service», the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» affiliate company,
Moscow

Structure of the JSC «IL»

As of 2006 the airplanes designed and developed by the Open Joint Stock Company «IL» were manufactured by the «Voronezh Aircraft Manufacturing Company» (JSC «VASO»), producing the IL-96-300 and IL-96T aircraft, the «Tashkent Aircraft Production Association n/a V.P.Chkalov» (»TAPOICh»), producing the IL 114 and family of IL 76 aircraft and their modifications, and the «Lukhovitsi Aircraft Production And Test Complex» (FGUP «RSK MIG» LAPIK), producing the IL-103 airplane.

Ilyushin Aviation Complex OJSC - Russian Defense Industry

Hence no direct deal could have been completed with Ukraine for the supply of new aircraft without involving the Russians, However as the only operational IL-78 squadron of the Soviet air force remained in ukraine at the break-up of the U.S.S.R, the Ukrainians have more experience than most with this airframe and hence would be a logical choice for the PAF to get old mordenised airframes from.As of 1991 the Soviet airforce deployed 310 IL-76 aircraft, The russian airforce today deploys only 119 ;most of the other aircraft were transferred to the CIS nations and Ukraine these were then put into Long-term storage(these smaller nations in many cases found it financially prohibitive to operate the heavy lift aircraft), it is from these stocks that the PAF airframes have been sourced..If you have any information to the contrary i would love to know, but with links please.

 

[venom]

The IAF has a fleet of 94 Antonov-An32's (of 104 in service for various uses) each with a payload of upto 6.7 metric tons and a range of upto 1,200 km, and a fleet of 17 IL-76MD, 6 IL-76MKI each with a payload of 95,000 lbs and a range of about 3,100 miles. In addition, six IL-78 mid-air refuellers of the MARS squadron as a shot in the arm in 2003, and a proposal tabled in parliament to buy 6 more aerial refuellers at a cost of USD 1 billion- likely the EADS Airbus A-330 multi-role tanker transport (there's your 'convertible'). What on Gaia's great cunny should we feel maladroit at the lack of a 'convertible' tanker/transporter refueller option for?

To put that into perspective, the Chinese Air force has 82 Shaanxi Y-8 (design derivative of the Soviet An-12), 23 Xian Y-7 / Y-7h (based on the Soviet An-24; Y-7H based on the cold-war era An-26) and 14 Il-76MD's. It has 4 Il-78 air-refueller tankers. A comparison of the two will show you that we are at or better than parity.

True, having a mid-air refueller represents a quantum jump in the PAF's long term capabilities. But it is not something we didn't know would happen, or would not have been led to expect. Besides, the Pakistan air force has a long way to go before a decent number of aircraft are fitted with IFRs. As such, in the short term, they represent only an augmentation of their air-lifting capability.

Reports on defensenews and other credible sources also suggest that earlier reports that Cobham plc (the same company that equipped the US KC-10's with hose and drogue systems, so that they became two, dual-use Multi-Point Refueling Systems capable of both flying boom and hose-and-drogue refuelling) were to equip Pakistan's Il-78s with refueling pods were incorrect. Which is why the pods on the Il-78's are still the Soviet-designed UPAZs, and why the refueling receptacle kits on its refuellable aircraft will have to be yet procured from another third party- likely South Afrikan in origin. Ergo, the Pakistani Air Force still has a long way to go before it can equip a decent number of its receiving aircraft with ARP's, demonstrating an air-refuelling capability.

Now, what does the PAF have now that can be refuelled: only a small number of Mirage III/V's fitted with an air-refuelling probe (presumably under 10). Of the 50 ex-Australian air force Mirage III's that the PAF procured in the early 90's, and the 34 others that the PAF took out of cold storage, that underwent the ROSE program (only 78 were later found to be fit for active service), 20 were upgraded to ROSE-II, and even fewer underwent an upgrade designated ROSE-III. The ROSE-I included new HUDs, MFDs, RWRs and HOTAS controls and the Grifo M3 radar, and the ROSE-II these and the DART IR. Details on the ROSE-III are scarce, but I presume they may have included in-flight refuelling probes. If this be the case, then we may assume a limited number, probably in the vicinity of 10, are equipped to handle aerial refuelling.

The PAF is now beginning to equip under 30 of its ROSE-I designates with aerial refuelling probes, but this is expected to take a good couple of years. In the mean time, the aging airframes of the ex-Australian and ex-Armée de l'Air (French AirForce) Mirage III/V's (the latter procured as far back as between 1967 and 1982) and the fact that the overhauls of the ROSE-II engines were for a "four year and 300 hour" "guaranteed life span, the fact that spare parts cannibalized for the Mirage III/V fighters in PAF service, procured in 2004 were from ex-Libyan air force fighters, and the fact that Mirage III/V fighters are designated to be retired out of service by the mid-2010's, means that its advantage vis-a-vis Mirage A-A refuelling will be short lived.

Paf Il-78 r old airframes which had been stored in Ukrane after the breakup of USSR....SO IN SHORT THEY R 2nd HAND...ha ha

 

[Armand2REP]

About Tankers my friends i would like to know an inependent source of your claims about old tanker.
But no asian defence or global firepower or even wiki.

Where else do you think a Ukrainian IL-78 is going to come from? Ukraine doesn't make Ilyushian, they make Antanova. It was from Soviet stocks and refurbished at Antanov with old style D-30 engines. Ukraine doesn't have access to the better PS-90s made in Perm since the Russians don't want them competing with their modernisation package. The Ukrainians can only stick some nav equipment, LCD displays, rengine with Soviet models, and give it a paint job for a plane made in 1989. I doubt the craft has many flight hours since Ukraine air force rarley needs inflight refueling, but rusting on a tarmac for 20 years has its pitfalls. Expect this bird to be noisy and shortlived if you use it much. I really don't see much need for PAF to equip tankers, they won't be able to operate very far from the interior of Pakistan lest they be shot down by R-77. It might be of value if you plan a suprise attack from the sea or littoral air power, but is really just a prestige buy to compete with IAF.

 

[ppgj]

pakistan does not have offensive ability to dominate the air space and hence operating in an enemy air space is completely ruled out. on the other hand it does not have the geographic depth too. everyone knows the refuellers have to operate a long way away from the battle space lest they be blown away. if they are only defending their airspace (which is the case), there are many air bases for refuelling.
i wonder what they need it for? ofc i don't deny their right to have, but what for??

 

[Ritwik]

pakistan does not have offensive ability to dominate the air space and hence operating in an enemy air space is completely ruled out. on the other hand it does not have the geographic depth too. everyone knows the refuellers have to operate a long way away from the battle space lest they be blown away. if they are only defending their airspace (which is the case), there are many air bases for refuelling.
i wonder what they need it for? ofc i don't deny their right to have, but what for??

They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.

Which is why we have Sukhois stationed at Lonavola :goodstuff:

 

[bhramos]

They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.

Which is why we have Sukhois stationed at Lonavola :goodstuff:

If in case of Using refulers in Arabian Sea. they would be having atleast 1 P-3C and 4F-16's escort duty.

 

[ppgj]

They might operate over the Arabian sea to support pakistani fighters aiming to strike at India's industrial installations in Gujarat and Maharashtra.

Which is why we have Sukhois stationed at Lonavola :goodstuff:

still does not make sense.
why would they want to use refuellers over arabian sea while their air bases are much closer to both maharashtra and gujarat? in any case they will be prime targets for indian air defence naval fighters.

refuellers are useful when you dominate enemy air space and want to extend and expand on that. since you don't still have enemy ground in your hand, refuellers do the job since the air space has been sanitised.