Pakistan pulls JF 17 Thunderbird out of Bahrain air show

[Senyor Sandeep]

It would be really great if we Indians take inspiration from the Germans, Russians and Americans in jet engine and aircraft design and development. There is no point in these kinds of threads that does not allow us to go forward in our thinking. We just have to observe certain things and move on. Our target should be maximum indigenization, with maximum effectiveness, minimum costs and minimum time. Germany and its engineers during WW2 should be our example. If they could innovate and implement all jaw dropping technologies in such a short span of time, we should also be able to do the same to defend ourselves.

Speaking about observation, it seems that the Russian Yak 130 is killing the chances of JF 17. With cost less than 20 mil dollars and almost close to 4.5 gen features, Yak seems to be winning the interests of many nations. http://offiziere.ch/?p=25887

If only HAL could use its new 25kN engine and develop something similar to Yak (Twin engine design), combining the delta wing, tailless design with low wing loading, 8+G strength of Tejas with the best fly by wire technologies, they could have a 15-20 million dollar range best replacement for MiG 21 that could be marketed for exports against Yak 130 and Textron Scorpion.

 

[no smoking]

This is the most understated fact in India. We keep cursing all our research agencies for failing to make engines, but the Chinese, despite all the espionage, despite the massive budget, despite getting ToT from Russia for the MiG-type engine, haven't been able to reverse engineer, upgrade and manufacture their own engines.

The J-11B equipped with WS10 engine already harassed US P8 in 2014.

They are still stuck with copy-pasting whatever Russia gave them.

Please get yourselves some knowledge before making assumption.
The first WS-10 engine was produced in 1993 but the first time Chinese was able to see AL31 engine was NOV 1992. It is true that Chinese is good at reverse-engineering, but not that good.

 

[Indibomber]

Air-crafts on Display in Bahrain. Porkies have hidden their bees.

http://www.bahraininternationalairshow.com/trade/Content/Aircraft/5_7/

 

[abingdonboy]

How interesting. If the PAF really did make a non-refundable $500k deposit to reserve the spot then it debunks all the BS the Pakistanis are trying to peddle about "operational requirements elsewhere" or "we were never going to attend in the first place". These losers are SCARED and it is funny that aside from some intial comparisons when the Thunder first entered PAF service, since then EVERY SINGLE comparions between LCA and JF-17 has been by Indian sources/media.


It's like they actually sat down and looked at the LCA and were like "$hit, this thing is the real deal"- extensive carbon composite usage as opposed to ancient steel frame they use on their Suped up MiG-21, full quadruplex FBW, as opposed to in pitch only on the "Thunder", fully intergrated HMDS and IFR probe present from DAY ONE on the LCA MK.1- these features won't even be on the first 20 Block TWO Thunders, and only the IFR then- still no HMDS to be seen. Twin seat version has been devloped (a BIG plus for any would be export market) no plans for this with the "Thunder" and it's the same story for the naval version. How painful must it have been to see the N-LCA launch from INS Hansa's SBTF ramp!

The ADA/HAL has effectively designed, produced and tested FOUR planes whilst they are beating their chests about inducting junk even the producing nation (China) doesn't want.


I'm pretty sure they now realise the true beast that is the LCA and saw that HAL/ADA were ramping up to let it off its leash at BIAS so have chosen to save themselves the unflaterring comparisons.

+ the part about the IN vs IAF comparison is silly- with 3 test pilots (an odd number) there was always going to be an unbalanced represenation between the two services here. The NFTC is made up of both IAF and IN test pilots, whilst under the NFTC, they don't differentiate between them- a pilot is a pilot irrespective of their parent services. There is no way to judge a service's commitment to the LCA program through this metric- it's rather silly really.

The IAF has nothing to "hang in its head in shame" about- how unfair to say that about a professional service serving the nation 24/7.

 

[abingdonboy]

Do not underestimate the chinese, they will upgrade this fighter .

Don't underestimate the LCA's capabilties. The LCA MK.1 will already be superior to the JF-17 Block 2 and the MK.1A will arguably be superior to the JF-17 Block 3. The LCA Mk.2 will simply be in another league and knocking on the Gripen NG's door.

 

[abingdonboy]

Porkis are scarred as I said. They have hyped their plane a lot and Baharine has put monitoring instruments in air show. Now if under development Tejas perform much better than junk fighter 17 blunder, the hype created to local people will get exposed. Porkis wisely withdrew JF Blunder. It is just a 3rd generation plane and no match to Tejas. They avoided face off for face saving.

When you put it like that, I wonder who mad the call then-China or Pakistan?

 

[abingdonboy]

Porkis are scarred as I said. They have hyped their plane a lot and Baharine has put monitoring instruments in air show. Now if under development Tejas perform much better than junk fighter 17 blunder, the hype created to local people will get exposed. Porkis wisely withdrew JF Blunder. It is just a 3rd generation plane and no match to Tejas. They avoided face off for face saving.

When you put it like that, I wonder who mad the call then-China or Pakistan?

 

[abingdonboy]

The J-11B equipped with WS10 engine already harassed US P8 in 2014.

.

And yet, China is after the Su-35S for its 117S engines who themselves are a generation or so behind those made by SNEMCA, Eurojetor or P&W.

 

[abingdonboy]

These are the fruits of putting in the pain at the start and deciding to go for a wide ranging industry changing/building project like the LCA. The Pak/China shortcut to success (JF-17) stands exposed now. I mean, who not just builds a single seat only fighter aircraft (that isn't the F-22/F-35) but then inducts it! The PAF were SO desperate to get the Thunder into service and "best" the IAF they have effectively shot themselves in the foot in the long term.

 

[no smoking]

Oh, please stop making up your own history.

But sometimes there are fleeting opportunities that need to be grabbed, and for that we need to be on the front foot. For example, when China realized that the NPT was going to be signed in 1964, they immediately did a nuclear test and got themselves a seat.

Great, Chinese "immediately" signed the NPT in 1992, 28 years later.

We keep missing such opportunities. They did the same with incorporation of space weapons.

Oh, no! Isn't India also developing her own space weapon? Such as BMD?
You didn't miss the opportunities, the only problem is you don't have enough money to make yourself a decent competitor.

 

[abingdonboy]

Oh, no! Isn't India also developing her own space weapon? Such as BMD?
You didn't miss the opportunities, the only problem is you don't have enough money to make yourself a decent competitor.

Well it's 2016 now, and India is no longer that country.

 

[Bornubus]

Don't underestimate the LCA's capabilties. The LCA MK.1 will already be superior to the JF-17 Block 2 and the MK.1A will arguably be superior to the JF-17 Block 3. The LCA Mk.2 will simply be in another league and knocking on the Gripen NG's door.

Only edge Junk has its BVR SD 10A in terms of Range against Derby and Phython.

 

[abingdonboy]

Up to date information:

 

[Srinivas_K]

Don't underestimate the LCA's capabilties. The LCA MK.1 will already be superior to the JF-17 Block 2 and the MK.1A will arguably be superior to the JF-17 Block 3. The LCA Mk.2 will simply be in another league and knocking on the Gripen NG's door.

I am not underestimating LCA.


................

 

[sorcerer]

Performance fear makes paki prematurely ejaculate JF-17 out of bahrain airshow.
P(us)kis!!
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It suggests that PAF both fears comparison with the Indian Tejas, flying under DRDO (not Indian Air Force) aegis, at the air show — they were allotted the same exhibition pad (Number 15) to park the planes in — and competition in terms of flight performance at the show. There were some doubts about the Sino-Pak JF-17 taking to the skies, now it will not even be seen in Bahrain. Discretion being better part of exhibiting a fairly antique combat aircraft, it would have been damned difficult for PAF to sing their plane’s praises and maintain a straight face while seeing the 4th-Gen Tejas pull tight 8-g turns above them, and otherwise impress with its manoevereability and stealth attributes that the Thunderbird can’t match. It would have highlighted the generational difference between these two aircraft. The PAF is apparently prepared to forfeit the unrefundable half a million dollars to reserve exhibition space than risk exposing their bird to expert criticism, and negative contrasting with the Tejas.

http://bharatkarnad.com/2016/01/18/tejas-pak-thunderbird-wants-no-competition-at-bahrain/
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The move by paki is suicidal for Jf-17..they chickened out and it wont look nice on a sales pitch...everrrr!!
Suicidial tendencies are inbuilt paki train anyway..

 

[pmaitra]

What would have happened, had JF-17 not withdrawn? The two are not exactly comparable.

Source or picture: Chinese and Indian fighter jets face off amid regional turf war

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

@pmaitra @Gessler Can anyone bring me up to speed on what makes our Tejas have such a small range? Even with detachable drop tanks it's just 800km. Is it because the engine is a fuel guzzler or because the fuel tank is excessively small for stealth and weight?

 

[ersakthivel]

A quarter of a vertical loop in 4 seconds flat by tejas in bahrain with new fly by wire software relaxations to pull beyond 8G and AOA above 24 deg , no wonder JF-17 pulled out.


Kudos to modi govt and Def minister manohar parrikar for letting IAF, IN test pilots and ADA -HAL team to advertise indian aerodynamic advances in internal stage.

Fitting it out with 2052 ASEA radar, Astra , python, derby combo was the ice breaker by manohar parrikar , which let this bird to emerge as a winner in international arena.

i havent seen any warplane to complete a vertical loop before 16 seconds, So in this aspect tejas is second to none.

This will make many import dalals masquerading as defence jourANAlysts wet their pants.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

A quarter of a vertical loop in 4 seconds flat by tejas in bahrain with new fly by wire software relaxations to pull beyond 8G and AOA above 24 deg , no wonder JF-17 pulled out.


Kudos to modi govt and Def minister manohar parrikar for letting IAF, IN test pilots and ADA -HAL team to advertise indian aerodynamic advances in internal stage.

i havent seen any warplane to complete a vertical loop before 16 seconds, So in this aspect tejas is second to none.

This will make many import dalals masquerading as defence jourANAlysts wet their pants.

Can you give us a quick comparison about how many Gs other planes can pull? F35, F16, JF17, J20, Rafale, Typhoon?

 

[ersakthivel]

Can you give us a quick comparison about how many Gs other planes can pull? F35, F16, JF17, J20, Rafale, Typhoon?

More than Gs it is a combo G onset rates(the speed with which these Gs are pulled, ),high AOA, and Relaxed Static Stability , which makes the winner in close combat.