Pakistan Occupied Kashmir elections and Pakistan's hypocrisy

[Yusuf]

The India-Pakistan foreign secretary and foreign minister level talks made the headlines of almost all dailies this summer; but pushed an important news item to the margins. This was regarding the elections held in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) or Azad Kashmir held on June 26, 2011. The political circus that unfolded following the announcement of poll results clearly indicated the internal rifts in the political structure of the Pakistani state.While Jammu and Kashmir receives lot of media attention as a dispute between India and Pakistan, PoK seems to have escaped the scanner of the media. PoK did receive some attention after the 2005 earthquake. The militant camps there also get occasional media coverage. However, the political processes in PoK hardly generate any interest in the national and international media. The fact remains that while Pakistan has successfully managed to focus media attention on the alleged heavy-handed Indian rule in the valley of Kashmir, it has not bothered to clean its own backyard when it comes to the parts under its control.The polls held to elect a new government in Azad Kashmir have raised questions about how both the civilian government and the army of Pakistan treat the people of PoK without any concern for the basic (human) rights of the population. Local accusations of the heavy military presence and use of strong arm tactics to ensure predetermined results indicate popular disillusionment with the way in which Pakistan has been dealing with local political processes. Further, Pakistan's two major political parties, Pakistan People's Party (PPP) and Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz faction or PML(N), have been at loggerheads in the region after the June elections. PML(N) has accused PPP of blatant rigging in the elections and of distributing fake identity cards to undermine the electoral process. It has also alleged misappropriation of funds by the PPP from developmental projects to achieve its election goals. Sporadic cases of violence have also been reported. The overall democratic process was flawed in its entirety, beginning with the local election commission which was allegedly hand-in-gloves with the federal government to manoeuvre the polls in its favour.This election also demonstrated that inter-party tolerance, respect for electoral mandate and democratic and peaceful methods of polling hold no value for mainstream political parties in Pakistan, and that they would also force these practices on the people of PoK. The fact remains that the people controlling the electoral process excluded a large number of eligible voters from the list, included bogus voters and resorted to force with support from local authorities to turn the results in the favour of one party or other. However, on the face of it, it should not be impossible for the authorities in PoK to ensure peaceful elections in a truly democratic manner, if they are determined to do so. But, what seems to be an impediment here is the freedom allowed to Pakistani political parties to design and shape Azad Kashmir politics in accordance with their needs and interests. In fact, the local problems of the people of PoK hardly find any mention in the electoral politics.Azad Kashmir has also not been given a provincial status in Pakistan. Therefore it is important to ask, whether Pakistani political parties should be given a free rein in Azad Kashmir? Since, Pakistan spares no effort to run down Indian governance in Jammu and Kashmir and sheds crocodile tears over the treatment meted out by India to the Kashmiri people, Pakistan's dichotomous role in PoK politics needs to be flagged by the people of PoK in international forums. Pakistan disqualifies candidates who do not declare allegiance to the Pakistani position of PoK's accession to Pakistan. This highlights Pakistan's insincerity on its stated position that the future of Kashmir should be decided by its people. The "Northern Areas" or Gilgit Baltistan as it is known now, have also been illegally kept as an occupied territory for long under the jackboots of the Pakistan army without any representative system of governance. The nominal representative body that has been introduced since 2009 is not acceptable to the people of Gilgit-Baltistan. The differences of approach between India and Pakistan in relation to the areas of Kashmir under their control are too conspicuous to be missed.Of more serious concern for the region and its population is the ever-growing influence of the army and the ISI, which can be clearly seen in the appointment of institutional heads like the chief election commissioner, judges, etc., who have a direct influence on the electoral processes. Pakistan has long conspired- successfully- to have puppet governments in Muzaffarabad to carry forward its traditional policy on Kashmir and relations with India. This also has been the traditional bastion of the army and ISI where they have been mollycoddling the anti-India militant outfits. An independent government in PoK may severely limit Pakistan's Kashmir policy vis-à-vis India.However, Pakistan must understand that this situation may not continue for long. It has to devolve real power to the PoK administration and allow real democracy there. If Pakistan wants to avoid serious crises in the future in 'Azad Kashmir', it should practice greater respect for individual rights and allow indigenous political outfits to participate in the political processes. Its efforts to annex the territory as a de facto province without constitutional rights or representation has rendered PoK as one of the most marginalised areas, unlike in the case of Jammu and Kashmir in India, where basic constitutional rights and special status have been granted to the people of the state. Pakistan's tirade against Indian rule in Kashmir is nothing but hypocrisy to hide its own misrule in PoK.
Azad Kashmir elections and Pakistan's hypocrisy | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

 

[Ray]

Thursday, 22 September 2011
Who did Mirwaiz represent in Geneva? Dr Shabir Choudhry

Who did Mirwaiz represent in Geneva?

Dr Shabir Choudhry 22 September 2011

Mirwaiz Omer Farooq, Chairman of one faction of All Parties Hurriyat Conference was in Geneva to address a seminar on Kashmir arranged by pro Pakistan Kashmiris during the UN Human Rights 18th Session. It was not his first visit to this prestigious place and I am sure it won't be the last; because the powers that be think still his services could be utilised to promote a particular agenda.

I first met Mirwaiz in early 1990s when he visited Britain as a Chairman of united APHC. He was probably in his late teens at that time and was elected the Chairman after his father was shot down and killed in Srinagar. At that time India was accused for this murder, but this year another APHC senior leader Professor Abdul Ghani revealed that he was not killed by India, but was killed by 'our own people'.

At that time young and smart Mirwaiz looked immature and vulnerable. Now he is physically a grown up man who has been carefully groomed as a Kashmiri leader, perhaps to fulfil a certain task. He is a confident man with good presentation skills; however it is difficult to say if he has matured politically. Seminar moderator, Barrister Majid Tramboo opined the audience that Mirwaiz has also achieved his Doctorate; but some Kashmir watchers question if he understands all aspects of Kashmir dispute.

His speech was not among the best of his speeches. Either he does not know jurisprudence of the Kashmir dispute or he was too afraid to speak out his mind; as he did not want to annoy those who sponsored his trip. Some people think it is not prudent to be on the wrong side of those who ruthlessly call shots in the polity of Jammu and Kashmir; as they have power and know how to eliminate all voices of dissent. However, some others think it is absolutely vital that one must uphold principles, and call spade and spade irrespective of reprisals.

When we say the Kashmir dispute we refer to the former Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir that existed on 15th August 1947; and in our considered opinion the entire state is disputed. The fact that in some parts there is more trouble than others does not mean that those areas with less visible trouble and dissent are not disputed.

Both groups of APHC, Mirwaiz Omer Farooq and their supporters and mentors claim that they represent people of Jammu and Kashmir. Actions of Mirwaiz and the APHC groups do not support that claim. Reality is that they do not even represent majority of Muslims of the Valley, where the both groups and their leadership is based.

This fact was once more confirmed by the speech of Miwaiz. His entire speech was about the problems of the Valley and his criticism was against only India. The State of Jammu and Kashmir is forcibly divided between India, Pakistan and China; and consists of the Valley, Jammu, Ladakh (Aksai Chin - under China), Gilgit Baltistan (Shaksgam Valley –under China) and Azad Kashmir.

Mirwaiz Omer Farooq did not speak a single word about other areas of the State, or said anything against other countries which occupy the territory of State of Jammu and Kashmir. It is clear that his Kashmir starts from the Valley and ends in the Valley. He didn't look concerned about areas of the Valley which are under control of Pakistan, as he did not mention them or their problems. What does this prove?

Many people who reside on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control decided to stay away from the event where Miwaiz was to speak, as they had good idea what he would say. Furthermore, they knew there would be no opportunity of asking any question, as organisers despite calling it 'interactive dialogue' leave no time for any questions. Because of this, Azad Kashmiri people wanted to use their time more positively. However, Abbas Butt and I decided to attend the seminar, as we wanted to know if he had anything new to say.

In line with their past practise they left no time for any questions; and soon after the seminar I approached Mirwaiz for some chat. I said to him that you claim to represent people of Jammu and Kashmir and yet you only spoke about problems of people the Valley. Why you did not say anything about Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir. With a friendly smile he said, "Why don't you speak about problems of those areas?"

Before I could reply to him I heard some loud voices coming from the seminar hall, among them was a loud voice of my friend and Chairman of Kashmir National Party Abbas Butt. As I looked towards that corner, I saw Abbas Butt surrounded by three Pakistanis and there were some other pro Pakistan Kashmiris standing by. I excused Mirwaiz and rushed to help Abbas Butt. Verbal arguments could have transformed in to a physical exchange if Barrister Majid Tramboo and I were not there to keep them apart.

I learnt that one of the Pakistani who were especially 'imported' from Belgium to help and support the seminar and other activities, asked Abbas Butt where he was from. Without any hesitation Abbas Butt said: "I am from Pakistani occupied Kashmir."


After hearing this, one man with anger and hatred said: "Kashmiri Pakistan ka Khatey hain aur Pakistan kay Khilaf baat kartey hain" – which means – 'Pakistan feed Kashmiris and they talk against Pakistan.'

Abbas Butt said, "Pakistan does not feed me. I am a qualified Charted Accountant and I earn my own living." Before he could say anything else all three Pakistanis aggressively surrounded him and started shouting at him. They belonged to Muslim League N, Muslim League Q and Peoples Party. As for politics of Pakistan is concerned they hate each other and openly speak against each other; but here all three of them were united to harass and intimidate a Kashmiri who spoke his mind.

These people were ordinary people with no qualifications. One of them survive on social security given by the government, and others are manual labourers in Belgium. They have no knowledge of politics and human rights, and were brought here to clap after every speech and perhaps harass true Kashmiris. Abbas Butt cannot be easily harassed; when they raised their voice he raised his voice as well because he was not going to let them harass him.

If a Kashmiri from Pakistani Occupied Kashmir cannot say that he is a ghulam or occupied in a place like Geneva, inside the UN building during the Human Rights Session without being intimidated then one can imagine how people of so called Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan are oppressed and intimidated.


After this incident Abbas Butt and I walked back to cafeteria. I said to Mirwaiz: 'You people have ten times more rights on the Indian side of the divide than what we have. You people shout anti Indian slogans, use foul language against Indian government, Indian leaders and forefathers of Indian nation, even burn Indian flag and no one says anything to you until people break law or use gun. Whereas we people on the Pakistani side of the divide cannot even call ourselves ghulam or occupied. We cannot even think of shouting anti State of Pakistan slogans or burn a Pakistani flag because we know we will be killed.'

Mirwaiz was listening to this tentatively. I further said: Extent of our azadi or independence could be seen from this incident. I gave him details of what happened to Abbas Butt. I said if we people cannot say that we are ghulam or occupied in a place like Geneva, then you can imagine how difficult it would be to say this in Gilgit Baltistan and Azad Kashmir.


But before Mirwaiz could reply to anything what I said, his friends who sponsored his visit called him. Perhaps they didn't want me to influence him or provide him any information that might change his thinking process.

It must be pointed out here that Pakistani man did not say anything against Abbas Butt. He spoke against people of Kashmir. Abbas Butt is conscious of being ghulam or occupied, and he spoke out to defend his right to express his views; and that people of Jammu and Kashmir do not rely on Pakistan. There were some other Kashmiris who decided to remain quiet. Either they don't have ability to differentiate between independence and occupation or they take pride in their status in order to be in good books of their political masters.

To conclude, if Mirwaiz Omer Farooq wants to be considered as a leader of people of Jammu and Kashmir and be taken seriously by people of the State and other Kashmir watchers then he has to do better than that. He has to speak for rights of all people of Jammu and Kashmir and must not limit himself to the borders of the Valley. He is still young, intelligent and has good presentation skills; but if he doesn't change his ideological stand and encompass aspirations of all citizens of Jammu and Kashmir he will be considered as a leader promoting a non Kashmiri agenda.

Writer is a leader of Kashmir National Party, political analyst and author of many books and booklets. Also he is Director Institute of Kashmir Affairs. Email: [email protected]
Dr Shabir Choudhry's blog

Dr Shabir Choudhry was born in Nakker Shamali (near Panjeri) in District Bhimber, Azad Kashmir. He went to UK in 1966, and holds a dual nationality. He left secondary school in 1970 with no qualifications. In 1975 he started part time studies and passed Matriculation from Panjeri, passed 'O' and 'A' levels from UK, and resumed full time degree course and passed BA (Hons) in 1984. He was awarded Mphil and PGCE in 1990 and PhD in 2002. At present he is self - employed, provides private tuition, translation/ interpretation and consultancy. Dr Shabir Choudhry has done extensive research on the issue of Kashmir and Indo Pakistan relations. He is founder member of JKLF and became its Secretary General in 1985, and got elected President of JKLF and Europe in 1999. At present, he is: "¢ He is author of more than 25 books and booklets in English on various aspects of the Kashmiri struggle. "¢ Through out his adult life he has actively worked for Kashmir cause, and for peace and Rights Movement in Kashmir and South Asia. "¢ Also he regularly takes part in proceedings of UN Human Rights Council and has attended various International conferences on Kashmir. Professor Rafiq Bhatti


This article indicates how much the Hurriyat represents the Kashmiri and his and his cohorts agenda lays exposed wherein they are but Pakistani agents and no more!

The good old Mirwaiz conveniently forgot the Pakistan held Kashmir since he is well aware that that part of Kashmir is replete with human rights abuses and that the so called azad Kashmir is actually a goolami and no more!

So much for Pakistani propaganda that POK is Azad!

 

[Daredevil]

The Sabbir Choudary's article was revealing and tells about how Pakistan is brutally suppressing their voices and their basic rights. I wonder, what Asim (the half kashmiri) has to say about this.

 

[Tronic]

The Sabbir Choudary's article was revealing and tells about how Pakistan is brutally suppressing their voices and their basic rights. I wonder, what Asim (the half kashmiri) has to say about this.

I'd love to know which part, and what language his Kashmiri side speaks. I bet urdu.

 

[Ray]

uesday, 28 June 2011

Elections in Pakistani colony - Azad Kashmir

Dr Shabir Choudhry 28 June 2011

In a parliamentary form of government a party that gets majority forms the next government; and the party leader becomes a Prime Minister. This happens in every democratic and civilised country. However, rules in a Pakistani occupied territory known as Azad Kashmir (independent Kashmir) are different.

PPP emerged as the winner in the elections. It was expected, as always is the case, a ruling party in Islamabad gets the desired results in Azad Kashmir to suits its needs. Barrister Sultan Mehmood, former Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir and a leader of the PPP was interviewed by a Pakistani TV. He happily claimed to have got the majority to form the government. The TV journalist asked him who is going to be the Prime Minister. Barrister Sultan Mehmood with a fake smile on his face said: Zardari Sahib will decide who is going to be the Prime Minister' (of Azad Kashmir).

People who know how the system works and how posts are awarded, especially the post of the Prime Minister, claim that the man with a big purse will be the Prime Minister. Choudhry Abdul Majid is the President of PPP Azad Kashmir; and should have been asked to form the government. However, that won't happen, as he is not that rich. Choudhry Yasin and Barrister Sultan Majid are strong candidates for the post of Prime Minister; and insiders claim that Barrister Sultan Mehmood will be the next Prime Minister.

That sums up the level of azadi or independence this territory and its leaders have. Who is Zardari? He is a man accused of being ten per cent because of many corruption scandals, Surrey Palace, Swiss accounts etc. He has imposed a dictatorship in his own party and has virtually ruined it. Many even accuse this man with murder of his wife as well.

Oh yes, he is also a President of Islamic Republic of Pakistan – perhaps, ideal candidate for the post according to political standards of Pakistan. As far as I am concerned, Pakistanis can have a Mafia Don as their President, but what right has he got to impose his will on people of Azad Kashmir.

How unfortunate that in this territory – Azad Kashmir who will be our Assembly Member is decided by 'Masters' in Islamabad. These 'Masters' are in the form of Asif Ali Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, and other heads of Pakistani parties which dominate the politics of this unfortunate territory. Apart from that, Minister Kashmir Affairs, top four Pakistani officials - Chief Secretary, IG Police, Finance Secretary and Accountant General run and control Azad Kashmir. The final say, as always, is with the secret agencies and Pakistani army General, known as GOC Murree (General Commanding Officer based in Murree).

As if these checks and restrictions were not enough imperialists in Islamabad ensured that genuine voice of people does not emerge strongly to endanger their interests, so they have inserted a clause in Act 74 (under which this territory is run and controlled) that those who do not sign allegiance to Pakistan could not contest any elections or qualify for a public post.

Furthermore, all major decisions, including who will get promotions and what projects should be initiated are taken in meetings of Kashmir Council, which is Chaired by Prime Minister of Pakistan and controlled by the Pakistanis who have numerical majority there as well.

After this brief introduction it is pertinent to discuss the current elections in this independent Kashmir, which does not have any independence apart from the name. It is called Azad Kashmir to fool people of Jammu and Kashmir. It is unfortunate that many people of Azad Kashmir want to live in this fantasy world that they are azad or independent, as this false sense of being azad does not require any action or struggle on their part. Whereas, if they accept that they are not azad then obligation would be to do something about it; and the structure Pakistan has woven around them in the past 63 years is so strong that they cannot get rid off it.

In the present elections, all candidates of Pakistani parties (mainly PPP, N League, MQM, Jamat e Islami) contesting elections in Azad Kashmir were chosen by heads of these Pakistani parties; and the Azad Kashmiri leadership had no role in that – what a democracy.

In my considered view and in view of many other experts, the PPP would get 16-17 seats, N League 14-15 seats and Muslim League 8-9 seats; that no party gets a majority and Pakistani establishment can manoeuvre things as suits them. One day before the elections my friend in Pakistan who has some contacts with those who call shots in matters of Azad Kashmir said: it has been decided that PPP will get 20 -21 seats, N League 8-9 and Muslim Conference get 5-6 seats.

When the election results were out, my prediction was wrong and my friend proved to be more accurate. Now there are allegations that the elections were rigged. But which elections of Azad Kashmir were not rigged? It is interesting that allegations of rigging are coming from leaders of N League and Sardar Atiq Khan who was Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir at the time of elections.

In one TV interview Sardar Atiq Khan said these are the worst elections of Azad Kashmir with rigging, violence and murders (3 deaths and 20 injured, ballot boxes stolen in some places and returning officer kidnapped). He said leaders from Pakistan (PPP and N League leaders) who came to campaign in Azad Kashmir openly violated elections rules. But was he not the man in charge of so called Azad Kashmir? If he knows he is only a puppet and there are others who call the shots then why not acknowledge that.

Let us look how elections are managed in Azad Kashmir. The Assembly has total of 49 seats. Elections are held on 41 seats, 29 seats in Azad Kashmir with 12 seats spread over in Pakistan and reserved for Kashmir migrants. These 12 seats are always in hands of those who control Azad Kashmir and 'reward' to the parties of their choice. 5 seats are reserved for women and are shared according to party strength in the Assembly – generally 3 goes to the party with majority of seats. 1 seat for Overseas Kashmiris, sold to the highest bidder, 1 seat for technocrats and 1 seat for religious scholars.

Actual contest takes place on 29 seats in Azad Kashmir. There are many factors which determine the outcome of the elections. By and large, tribal loyalties are still strong and ideology of any kind has very little role in Azad Kashmiri elections. Money, role of the establishment and manpower with influence and guns play an important role in the outcome of elections.

During the election campaign votes are literally bought, sometimes with cash and sometimes with offer of development projects. For example, a village which has no access to a main road and people have to walk with their luggage and other belongings for transport could be persuaded to vote for a particular candidate in return x amount is paid for the construction of the road. Similarly, people vote for a candidate when they get money – during the campaign - to construct pavements or dig wells or other schemes which governments are supposed to do anyway.

My contacts tell me that Benazir Bhutto Income Scheme money was spent generously to buy votes in Azad Kashmir. It is claimed that money which was sent for the earthquake victims of Azad Kashmir was diverted and squandered by people in high positions. This money and some other funds, people claim, are now used to buy votes under the banner of BBIS.

My contacts further tell me that one day before the elections, in targeted seats PPP workers were offering up to 5000 rupees per vote. Some were even providing big sacks of flour and sugar (which is in short supply). In a country where 5000 rupees is a monthly wage for those lucky enough to be employed, it is huge income for a day for a family with 5-6 votes.

This is state of affairs in Azad Kashmir; and this is how politics works in this part of the world. Despite the above situation people in Pakistan and in some parts of Jammu and Kashmir like to call this territory Azad or independent Kashmir – a model state which the Pakistani elite think should encourage the remaining parts of Jammu and Kashmir to join it; and ultimately merge with Islamic Republic of Pakistan – a country ruled by likes of Zardari.

Do they think we are stupid? No Sirs, we don't want to become a part of this rotten society which is corrupt to the core, which is intolerant, which breeds extremism and violence, which is at a war with itself and which has very bleak future.

Writer is Head Diplomatic Committee of Kashmir National Party, political analyst and author of many books and booklets. Also he is Director Institute of Kashmir
Dr Shabir Choudhry's blog: Elections in Pakistani colony - Azad Kashmir

Speaks volumes.

Pakistan's remote control over its colony!

An 'Azad Kashmiri' calls it a COLONY!!!!!

 

[Ray]

Text of the agreement signed between Pakistan and Azad Kashmir Governments

By Shabir Choudhry
March 1949


The agreement between Pakistan and Azad Kashmir Governments was signed by the following in March 1949 :

Honorable Mushtaque Ahmed Gurmani,
Minister without Portfolio, Government of Pakistan.

Sardar Mohammed Ibrahim Khan,
the president of Azad Kashmir.

Choudhry Ghulam Abbas,
Head of All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference.

This was the only Kashmiri political party on this side of the cease fire line at that time, and the Agreement it was persuaded to sign, very seriously limited the role of Azad Kashmir Government in the Kashmiri freedom struggle. Therefore it is no surprise that respective governments of Azad Kashmir have very little or no interest in the freedom of the State of Jammu and Kashmir.

Text

A. Matters within the purview of the Government of Pakistan.

Defence (as modified under....).

Foreign policy of Azad Kashmir.

Negotiations with the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.

Publicity in foreign countries and in Pakistan.

Co - ordination and arrangement of relief and rehabilitation of refugees.

Co - ordination of publicity in connection with plebiscite.

All activities within Pakistan regarding Kashmir such as procurement of food, civil supplies running of refugee camps and medical aid.

All affairs of Gilgit - Ladakh under the control of Political Agent.

B. Matters within the purview of Azad Kashmir Government.

Policy with regard to administration of AK territory.

General supervision of administration in AK territory.

Publicity with regard to the activities of the Azad Kashmir Government and administration.

Advice to the honorable Minister without Portfolio with regard to negotiations with United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.

Development of economic resources of AK territory.

C. Matters within the purview of the Muslim Conference.

Publicity with regard to plebiscite in the AK territory.

Field work and publicity in the Indian occupied area of the State.

Organization of political activities in the AK territory and the Indian occupied area of the State.

Preliminary arrangements in connection with the plebiscite.

Organization for contesting the plebiscite.

Political work and publicity among the Kashmiri refugees in Pakistan.

Advise the honorable minister without Portfolio with regard to the negotiations with the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.

Text of the agreement signed between Pakistan and Azad Kashmir Governments in March 1949

 

[fateh71]

On another forum I asked them how is it Azad when they have to pledge allegiance to accession to Pakistan, the answer I got was ''they are Azad from you Hindus''!!!

The religious nitwits can not be reasoned with, they should be left alone to implode.

 

[Daredevil]

On another forum I asked them how is it Azad when they have to pledge allegiance to accession to Pakistan, the answer I got was ''they are Azad from you Hindus''!!!

The religious nitwits can not be reasoned with, they should be left alone to implode.

Totally agreed. These guys never accept the reality and continue to live in denial and when things come to such pass that they have to accept the reality then they justify it with some lame irrational argument.

 

[Ray]

Those who cannot stop their own killing their own, even though they are from the same religion and cannot condemn such heinous crime that is also against Islam, which they profess so ardently, what more can you expect?

And they have the audacity to comment on Indian Muslims being, as they claim, 'brainwashed' to Indian ways of secular thought!

 

[Ray]

To understand the genesis of Kashmir and India story, one should read ' Maharaja Hari Singh- The Troubled Years'. A must read for all those dealing with the issue of Kashmir.

 

[Illusive]

On another forum I asked them how is it Azad when they have to pledge allegiance to accession to Pakistan, the answer I got was ''they are Azad from you Hindus''!!!

The religious nitwits can not be reasoned with, they should be left alone to implode.

You should've asked him, 'then why does Balochistan want freedom from a muslim ruled pakistan?'

 

[johnee]

On another forum I asked them how is it Azad when they have to pledge allegiance to accession to Pakistan, the answer I got was ''they are Azad from you Hindus''!!!

The religious nitwits can not be reasoned with, they should be left alone to implode.

Pakistan sees itself as the Badshah of Ummah. It is its raison d'etre. Take away this self-grandiose image and ambition, then one can see that Pakistan's creation was never required and never justified.

 

[anoop_mig25]

^^^^ sorry off-topic does iran supports the concept of ummah if yes then iran should be suported?

 

[Blackwater]

some interesting fact and Questions about P.O.K.

People of POK uses pakistani passport.

Pok head is known as prime minister

Elections in POK are held by pakistan election commission

POK uses pak currency

POK prime minister appointed by pak parliament opps army i mean.

How it is azad then ???

 

[Blackwater]

Pakistan sees itself as the Badshah of Ummah. It is its raison d'etre. Take away this self-grandiose image and ambition, then one can see that Pakistan's creation was never required and never justified.

Thakedar is the right word...