Pakistan Navy To Get New Submarines from China

[Yusuf]

Another wellknown "rumour" or you gonna back it up with a source this time? I pray it wont be rupee news.

Oh sorry. Hans are the best nuclear submarines around. Far better than Ohio class.

Anyways I am sure you will crap this http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/type-91.htm as well.

 

[Ray]

I am amused.

Has China adequate such subs for her strategic requirements?

 

[Apollyon]

From where people got the news of Qing class ??

What i heard is Pakistan will get Han class which is already operational ... Type 091 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even Type 095 submarines (Qing Class which is also SSN ) and in under developmental phase. Both are nuke submarine equipped with Cruise Missiles.

Type 095 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

QING class is an SSK
http://www.newcenturychina.org/forums/index.php?/topic/2486-chinas-qing-class-ssk/

also as QING is is said to an improved YUAN class, so by any means it can't be an SSN.
Type 041 (Yuan class) (China) - Jane's Underwater Warfare Systems

 

[maomao]

Remember - Chinese never give anything for free (they may give it cheap but not without profits)!!

It's Europeans and Americans who have the habit of spoiling terror and beggar states with free lunches. Kindly, understand the Chinese/Han psych first (they are worst than marwari baniyas when it comes to making 'peesoo') and you will realize that - even for their own benefit they will charge and suck failed state pakistan dry of any zakkat/alms pathetic pakistanis receive from the west or oily Arabs.

P.S: Chinese will be paid with the dollar alms/aid and blood money which shameless pakistanis receive from their sustainers and masters!

 

[p2prada]

i also heard rumors about pakis getting their hands on U-214???

It's expensive. The Chinese ones would be a lot cheaper and will come with soft loans.

I am amused.

Has China adequate such subs for her strategic requirements?

If the new SSKs Song class, Yuan class and the improved Yuan come close to Kilo in stealth then you can say we are effectively outclassed in this department.

If they match the Kilos then you can say they are equivalent or even superior to PN's Agosta subs as well. They should be a match for the Scorpenes IN is procuring. Without AIP, the tactical advantage is lost to us.

The Americans claimed their older Song class is an equivalent to the Kilo. They hold the Kilo class in the highest esteem for it's capabilities.

Without the Project 75A tender happening quickly, we are effectively screwed in this area. Our immediate plans call for 1 Akula class sub and 6 Scorpenes by 2020. Who knows how many China will build in the mean time.

However these submarines are small and cannot operate effectively in the IOR. PLAN will have to rely on their SSNs for IOR. But PN can use these SKKs in the Arabian sea effectively.

 

[JAISWAL]

there various paki sources which claim that pak will get some of these mordern subs, but on the the question, that how will they pay for those u-214s of chines ssn's, these so called paki defence experts start trumbling or shouting about their so called all weather allies and their good will in the the world.
And if thats not enought they will bring their magic word "inshahallah"
.
.
God they are such a loosers..

 

[Drsomnath999]

well qing class are nuclear powered ??

 

[Drsomnath999]

i also heard rumors about pakis getting their hands on U-214???

where do u hear such rumours man ???
next day u would also hears rumours that pakistan getting their hands on f22 raptor

 

[Poseidon]

As of now there are no credible sources.
We heard that China will supply Pakistan 50 JFT's on emergency basis in weeks.So far not one has arrived.
But I don't think money wlll be a problem if it is China.

 

[sayareakd]

IMHO Pakistani wants these subs so that they will put all their nukes into this as they are better safe at the bottom of sea, then on Pakistani soil. Pakistani nukes have lot of people after it, from USA, Talibs, OBL's gang, India, Israel, Pakistani Talbs, Pakistani rouge military, Pakistani Mullas, etc, it has long list of people after it. So better to have it underwater.


BTW Pakistan is broke, they dont have money to run their trains what to say of nukes subs operation.

 

[Rahul M]

As of now there are no credible sources.
We heard that China will supply Pakistan 50 JFT's on emergency basis in weeks.So far not one has arrived.
But I don't think money wlll be a problem if it is China.

money will be THE problem if it is china.

 

[Neil]

a little OT...::

if kilo subs are so deadly why are we not going for them instead of scorpene...??we already use kilos right...??!!

 

[Poseidon]

money will be THE problem if it is china.

China is a 7 trillion economy.It won't care about US$ 3billion to undermine us.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

a little OT...::

if kilo subs are so deadly why are we not going for them instead of scorpene...??we already use kilos right...??!!

Coz they are more better with AIP tech..

Their sensors are more modern..

 

[Neil]

Coz they are more better with AIP tech..

Their sensors are more modern..

but still kunal sir...we can always buy tech from french and use it in kilo just like we did with su30mki....and kilo is one of the most feared SSK...AIP can be attached with a little design change[just like scorpene] dont u think...??!!

 

[charlyondfi]

If the new SSKs Song class, Yuan class and the improved Yuan come close to Kilo in stealth then you can say we are effectively outclassed in this department.
If they match the Kilos then you can say they are equivalent or even superior to PN's Agosta subs as well. They should be a match for the Scorpenes IN is procuring. Without AIP, the tactical advantage is lost to us.
The Americans claimed their older Song class is an equivalent to the Kilo. They hold the Kilo class in the highest esteem for it's capabilities.
Without the Project 75A tender happening quickly, we are effectively screwed in this area. Our immediate plans call for 1 Akula class sub and 6 Scorpenes by 2020. Who knows how many China will build in the mean time.

Dear P2Prada: basically I agree with your comments, and I do read that Americans article (an Office of Naval Intelligence, actually). Just some add-on:
the ONI is appraising the "stealth" capability (i.e. silence), but NOT 2nd, 3rd, and 4th important key factors in sub warfare: sensor, combat system, and torpedo.
China is good in hiding all the data, so we may only be able to guess:

Yuan class is the first one in China (or second, to 093 "Shang" class SSN) equipped with hull-mounted array sonar, which is ~20 years behind western & US. It's yet known how good PLAN learn to make best of this new equipment. And this come to next factor: your combat system (computer) --

First you will have to learn how is best to use that sonar, then you can design your combat system and correctly use it accordingly.

Torpedo is another notorious weakness for PLAN. Although the constraint for 092 is old story, last few years PLAN acquire quite many Russian and even US torpedos. All the Yu-6 and Yu-7 torpedo are all reverse engineering. Now, unlike many people, I do hold high score toward China's rev-engineering capability. Many their works are actually brilliant. Yet, this one we again can not give enough details (ONI paper also admit it).

In a sub warfare, the best tactic is still
i) quietly sneak so close to your foe (silence), so that
ii) you are 200% sure (sensor)
iii) they can not get away your weapon (torpedo)
And if you have to face more than one enemy submarine, the combat system is even more critical as you need it to analyze all the signals, threat assessment, tracking (even has to track fired torpedos)

All I am trying to say is there are still some more details to say China's sub strength is really that superior to India once 75A delivered...

 

[p2prada]

a little OT...::

if kilo subs are so deadly why are we not going for them instead of scorpene...??we already use kilos right...??!!

Amur, Marlin, S-80 etc are better.

 

[charlyondfi]

but still kunal sir...we can always buy tech from french and use it in kilo just like we did with su30mki....and kilo is one of the most feared SSK...AIP can be attached with a little design change[just like scorpene] dont u think...??!!

Neil: I tend to say AIP is NOT a simple weapon or sensor or even engine, but one need to integrate with your gearing, control, and most of all stealth system. I don't think it's that easy to "use it in Kilo".

Guys, don't you think that France providing AIP to Pakistan is another annoying factor? To me, India seems to be in dilemma: Russia is too slow for its AIP technology. I could be wrong, though...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

but still kunal sir...we can always buy tech from french and use it in kilo just like we did with su30mki....and kilo is one of the most feared SSK...AIP can be attached with a little design change[just like scorpene] dont u think...??!!

You are talking abt AMUR class recently join the New RFI launched by IN..

Russian themselves attached AIP to a upgraded Kilo variant call Amur, It sensor are updated almost 80% is updated over Kilo 877 types....

The modification is huge on AMUR class compare to Kilo class, If we try to update Some Kilo class on that scale with french stuff it will cost as same a Carrier also we may face many technical difficulties due to different origin of hardware..

 

[Blackwater]

Hope instructions are in Urdu not in Chinese..........BTW who will pay??? Sam papa is angry will not pay. Chini papa don't believe in cash.....hmmmmmmmmmm