Pakistan moves 100,000 troops from border with India: Pentagon

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by A.V., Apr 29, 2010.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    WASHINGTON: Pakistan has moved 100,000 troops from its borders with India, thinning the lines, to bolster its campaign against Taliban and other militants on its restive border with Afghanistan, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

    The mass shifting of troops is an acknowledgement of the fact that terrorism and internal insurgency were posing more threat to Pakistan now, the Pentagon said in a report to the US Congress.

    "More than 100,000 PAKMIL troops were moved from the eastern border with India. This unprecedented deployment and thinning of the lines against India indicates that Islamabad has acknowledged its domestic insurgent threat," the department said in its latest report on Afghanistan.

    The Pentagon did not specify the regions' from where the troops had been pulled out, but said it estimated that more than 140,000 Pakistani forces were now taking part in the ongoing offensive against the Taliban in Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal region, known as FATA.

    The Pentagon report was issued hours before the crucial meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani in the Bhutanese capital Thimphu on the sidelines of the SAARC Summit.

    The US Defence Department while acknowledging that Pakistani military operations in tribal areas of NWFP had placed "a high degree of pressure on militants and reduced their safe havens", but was unlikely to have an immediate impact on the US-led war in Afghanistan.

    The Pentagon report said that there was a broad syndicate of extremist groups operating in the AfPak region with multiple short and long term goals.

    It identified the groups as al-Qaida, Tehreek-e-Taliban and Lashkar-e Taiba (LeT) which it said threatened security of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and elsewhere.

    "The three major groups include the Quetta Shura Taliban, Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and the Haqqani Network (HQN). These groups cooperate and coordinate at times and their areas of operations tend to be geographically and demographically determined," it said.

    "They operate mainly in the Pashtun-majority areas of Afghanistan in the south and east, and in Pashtun pockets in the north. The common goals of these groups are to expel foreign forces from Afghanistan (although there is no mention of foreign fighters allied with them or al-Qaida) and to undermine the central government," the report added.

    Pentagon said Pakistan military crackdown so far has focussed only on internal threats, but outlined that these could be more productive depending on how they evolve in future.

    It acknowledged that Pak military had suffered attacks from terrorists in response to its successful operations.

    "These attacks include mass casualty events in Mingora, SWA (South Waziristan Agency) -- close to clearing operations -- as well as in Lahore, far away from the fighting.

    "While these attacks do not appear to have shaken Pakistan's commitment, they do demonstrate, for the time being, insurgent ability to continue attacks despite reported successful PAKMIL operations," said the report which runs into nearly 150 pages.

    According to the report, Pak Military is beginning to acknowledge the ties and threats posed by Afghan and Pakistani Taliban.

    "The Pakistani operations have focused almost exclusively on internal threats. These operations reduce the space available to all insurgent and extremists groups," it said.

    "While this evolving approach is unlikely to have significant impact on the Afghan insurgency in the short term, it offers opportunities in coming months to have a greater impact on the conflict in Afghanistan, depending on how PAKMIL operations evolve," the report said.

    Despite discussions regarding the possibility of transfer of Afghan Taliban captured in Pakistan to Afghanistan, most notably Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, no transfers have taken place, it said.

    The PAKMIL has also offered to provide military training to Afghan army and security personnel. The Afghan Ministry of Defence (MoD) is reviewing the offer, but is evaluating it cautiously based on Afghan Government political concerns, the report said.

    "In conjunction with ISAF's Operation MOSHTARAK, the Pakistan military has maintained an increased presence along Afghanistan's southern border.

    "Pakistan reports these operations have succeeded in extending the writ of the Pakistan Government within the area including the former insurgent stronghold of Damadola, native home of Maulana Faqir Muhummad," it said.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...r-with-India-Pentagon/articleshow/5871891.cms
     
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  3. Zaki

    Zaki Regular Member

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    Time for some more action... what else is left? I guess North Waziristan? time to clean up this mess from its remaining roots and eliminate them for good
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    And the rogues too i may add.
     
  5. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    It has to be believed only when it happens which I think didn't happened so far. Why pakistan itself not declaring how many troops it is moving??.
     
  6. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    many things remains?south punjab?....any guesses?Its a long drawn fight pak amy has to fight its not something 2 weeks or 2 days of indo-pak war .coz the people pak army is if fighting today ???if they dont finish them they gonna comeback to attack again.Hope next demand usa makes to india to pull equal or more numbers out of kashmir as 100k pakistani troops have already moved out to wild wild west.now time for india to move its troops to its wild wild east.any takers for this usa /pak demand???????
     
  7. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    NightWatch for 04/28/2010



    Security: Pakistan has transferred between 130,000 and 150,000 troops from its Indian frontier to its Afghan border for an offensive against militants in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa Province, Reuters reported 28 April, citing a Pentagon report. The report said the shift represented the biggest deployment of Pakistani troops on the country's western border in its history, but it is unlikely to have an immediate impact on fighting in Afghanistan.

    Comment: Something is wrong with the math and with the comment. The numbers would represent a shift of at least eight divisions of infantry combat personnel, according to the Pakistan Army web site and Wikipedia. No reporting sources indicate Pakistan has made a transfer from the Indian border of that magnitude. It simply has not taken place.

    Most of the fighting against the militants in the west has been led by the paramilitary Frontier Corps with the Pakistan Army acting in support. The Army has two infantry corps in strategic reserve at Peshawar and Quetta. Major elements of them have been committed to the anti-militant fight and been reinforced by selected units from the forces arrayed against India. Those Corps probably are included in the numbers some Pentagon analysts are counting as a deduction from the frontal glacis facing India.

    No significant reduction of force against India is even theoretically possible.

    As to the statement about the effects on Afghanistan, it is a bit unfair, by implication, and disingenuous in fact because the Pakistan Army and Frontier Cops has pursued Pakistani Taliban, not Afghan Taliban. The Pakistani operations have never been billed as in support of US operations in Afghanistan. To do so would risk an insurrection in the Pakistan Army.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  8. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Just what I thought. Pakistan denies moving the troops from Indo-pak border

     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    If the move is ever confirmed, it would be a good time to take POK. Destroy the key bridges and it would take them weeks to respond.
     
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  10. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    you are correct, our IA is capable for that action,
    but we dont have political will, which is not fit for any action, nor our babus are capable of that.
     
  11. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    PA is going to ask Frenchies what to do with POK....

    @ TOPIC:

    a possible move by pentagon to gain some support from Congress to ship more equipment to Pakistan for anticipated Operation in NW
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
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  12. Zaki

    Zaki Regular Member

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    It was nothing but a poor joke.......... =Z

    Ever thought of sorting out your problems in Indian occupied Kashmir first? Your dream of gaining more territory will never bring peace in the whole subcontinent thus the dream of Super Power India will never be achieved

    I feel pitty on your weird thoughts
     
  13. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    Ohh no, not again, please.......................
     
  14. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Still trying to run away from the fact of good taliban and bad taliban haan
     
  15. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Perhaps you were right.Following report in dawn will help explain the motive behind the story of 100k troops moving out to west

    Pakistan to get $600mn under US program: Pentagon



    WASHINGTON: The United States plans to quickly transfer $600 million to Pakistan to reimburse the government for military operations over the last year, the Pentagon said on Thursday.

    “There has been some concern on the Pakistani's part about the rate at which they are reimbursed for Coalition Support Funds for their efforts in the war on terror on our behalf within their borders,” Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said at a news conference.

    “We have made great strides over the past few weeks to try to accelerate reimbursement payments to the Pakistanis. ... We have, I think, in total about $600 million that is in route or will soon be in route in the next few weeks to Pakistan to reimburse them for their operations over the past year.”

    The payment delay has been a source of friction and has contributed to Pakistan's economic woes. The United States is in arrears in paying about $2 billion in military aid to Pakistan under the so-called Coalition Support Fund.

    Last month, Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said a “substantial” amount of the money would be paid by the end of April, with Washington promising the remainder by the end of June. -Reuters
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Pakistan denies they moved 100,000 troops to fight the Taliban but now they get more welfare. This relationship is sickening.
     
  17. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    dekha bola tha na, now see this , we are going in NW sooner or later, now tell me Pakistan is still playing double game with the Good, the Bad & the Ugly ....

    the thing again comes down to a single line, 'We don't need any one's NOC'


    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The Pakistani military, long reluctant to heed American urging that it attack Pakistani militant groups in their main base in North Waziristan, is coming around to the idea that it must do so

    Western officials have long believed that North Waziristan is the single most important haven for militants with Al Qaeda and the Taliban fighting American and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

    The developing shift in thinking — described in recent interviews with Western diplomats and Pakistani security officials — represents a significant change for Pakistan’s military, which has moved against Taliban militants who attack the Pakistani state, but largely left those fighting in Afghanistan alone.

    That distinction is becoming harder to maintain, Pakistani and Western officials say, as the area becomes an alphabet soup of dangerous militant groups that have joined forces to extend their reach deeper inside Pakistan.

    “This is a scary phenomenon,” one Western diplomat said. “All these groups are beginning to morph together.”

    The consensus is gathering against a background of improved United States-Pakistan relations. The Obama administration’s efforts with Pakistan are beginning to bear fruit, officials said, while the countries’ armies have begun working together more closely, particularly since Pakistan stepped up its military efforts, according to a Pentagon report to Congress released this week.

    Even so, any operation in North Waziristan by Pakistan’s badly stretched military would still be months away, Pakistani and Western officials said. And even if it is undertaken, the offensive may not completely sever Pakistan’s relationship with the militants, like Sirajuddin Haqqani, who serve its interests in Afghanistan.

    The area has long been a sanctuary for Mr. Haqqani, a longtime asset of Pakistan’s military and intelligence services who is also one of the most dangerous figures in the insurgency against American forces.

    In recent months, however, it has also become home to Hakimullah Mehsud, Pakistan’s enemy No. 1, who is now believed to have survived an American drone strike in January, according to the Western diplomat and Pakistani intelligence officials.

    He and his supporters fled a Pakistani military operation in South Waziristan that began last October. Though Pakistan’s military said the operation was completed last month, its soldiers are still dying there in rising numbers, as Mr. Mehsud and his forces strike at them from their new base. In recent weeks, at least 19 soldiers have been killed in areas where the military had all but claimed victory.

    To make matters worse, families who left during the operation are reluctant to return to their homes, saying they are afraid of vengeful leaders still at large.

    “They know a lot of these guys have fled to North Waziristan,” said a Western diplomat in Islamabad. “That’s patently obvious. And sooner or later,” the diplomat continued, “they’re going to have to go in there.”

    In a separate interview, a senior Pakistani official concurred. “The source of the problem is in North Waziristan, and it will have to be addressed,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, because he was not allowed to speak publicly.

    The growing consensus on North Waziristan comes after a year in which the Pakistani military has opened several fronts against the Taliban in Pakistan, beginning with a campaign in the Swat Valley last spring.

    The fighting has cost Pakistan about 2,700 soldiers since 2001, nearly triple the total number of Americans killed in Afghanistan in the same period.

    Militants struck back, hitting the military’s headquarters in Rawalpindi, a mosque where military families prayed, and the offices of Pakistan’s intelligence agencies in three cities. The number of Pakistani civilians killed last year in Taliban attacks exceeded civilian deaths even in Afghanistan, helping shift public opinion against the militants.

    “I think it has become very dramatic that these people are out after them,” the diplomat said.

    The fighting — coupled with intense American drone strikes in the western tribal region — has splintered the militant groups, which are now a poisonous mix of Pashtun tribesmen, Arabs, Uzbeks and ethnic Punjabis, known for their brutality against Shiites and their close links to Al Qaeda.

    The fracturing is so profound that one Pakistani government official in the tribal region said that the Pakistani Taliban now consisted of several parts operating independently, and that the groups “do not necessarily take orders from Hakimullah Mehsud.” But the widening military campaign has also given them common cause. Operations by the militants have become more fluid. “All these groups are helping each other out and selling their services to the highest bidder,” the diplomat said.

    Pakistani officials recognize that the evolving nature of the militants has made them more dangerous — and made the necessity of going after them in North Waziristan increasingly unavoidable. ]“Their nexus with the Punjabi Taliban have given them greater reach,” a Pakistani law enforcement official said.

    But even as there is a growing consensus that North Waziristan is now the source of the problem, there is a continuing debate in the military over when and how to tackle it. Publicly the Pakistani military is saying that it is already fighting on several fronts, and that it does not have the resources to push into North Waziristan for at least several months. Western officials say they believe that the Pakistani military is doing as much as it can under the circumstances.

    There is also an understanding that opening a new front in North Waziristan — with its tangle of tribes, Qaeda militants, antistate groups and Haqqani supporters, thought to be in the thousands — will be a formidable task. “To go after Haqqani, it takes a very sizable military operation,” the diplomat said.

    But some officials say an operation could come sooner, not least because officers on the ground are calling for it. More frequent attacks emanating from North Waziristan “are likely to lead to a reaction sooner rather than later as field commanders feel the pressure to protect their troops,” said Shuja Nawaz, director of the South Asia program at the Atlantic Council in Washington.

    Others argue that Pakistan should wait and see how the American-led military offensive in southern Afghanistan plays out this summer. One senior military officer who favors Pakistani military action sooner derisively called that option “sitzkrieg,” Mr. Nawaz said.

    Whatever the case, the military would most likely avoid a frontal invasion, some officials suggested, and instead bolster the forces it already maintains in the area, about 10,000 soldiers. Pakistani forces in North Waziristan, which include the paramilitary Frontier Corps, are mostly confined to their barracks.

    Despite the prospect of a shift on North Waziristan, there is no apparent change in Pakistan’s attitude toward the leadership council of the Afghan Taliban, which manages the insurgency from in and around the city of Quetta, in southwest Pakistan, several diplomats said.

    The Afghan Taliban, under Mullah Muhammad Omar, remains Pakistan’s main tool for leverage in Afghanistan. The arrest of the Taliban’s top operational commander, Abdul Ghani Baradar, in January has not led to a broader crackdown against the Afghan insurgents. “Does it indicate a shift in policy?” the Western diplomat said, referring to the arrest of Mr. Baradar. “No. But it’s still a good thing.”

    Sabrina Tavernise and Carlotta Gall reported from Islamabad, and Ismail Khan from Peshawar, Pakistan. Pir Zubair contributed reporting from Islamabad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  18. nandu

    nandu Senior Member Senior Member

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    US must reassure Pakistan about India, says official

    WASHINGTON: With Pakistan's traditional defence posture still geared to conventional military conflict with India and not counter insurgency, a top Pentagon official says the US needs to reassure an Islamabad wary about growing India-US relations.

    "Although extremist attacks have led to the repositioning of substantial Pakistani forces, Pakistan's strategic concerns about India remain pre-eminent," Michele Flournoy, Under Secretary for Policy in the Department of Defence, told the House Armed Services Committee on Thursday.

    "We must continue to reassure Pakistan that as it combats the terrorist threat, it is not exposing itself to increased risk along its eastern border," she said noting that Pakistan is also wary about the increasing Indo-US relationship.

    "A final hurdle, frankly, relates to the legacy of mistrust between the United States and Pakistan. Past US sanctions, past Pakistani concerns about the growing US-India relationship, its scepticism about US staying power in the region have made it a weary partner," Flournoy said.

    Flournoy's testimony came a day after the Pentagon informed the US Congress that the Pakistan army had moved more than 100,000 troops from the eastern border with India to the border with Afghanistan to meet the growing threat from terrorism and internal insurgency.

    Noting that Pakistan's traditional defence posture is and always has been geared to conventional military conflict with India and not a counterinsurgency, she said Pakistani leadership was earlier reluctant to acknowledge such groups as serious threats to their state security.

    "In the past, the Pakistan approach to dealing with violent extremists relied primarily on limited and often inconclusive military operations, as well as tenuous cease-fire agreements, all of which collapsed immediately.

    "Pakistan's approach to military networks changed when these militants began directing their violence inward, against the Pakistani state, the people and the society," Flournoy said.

    "Similarly, reports of Pakistan's tolerance and support for some violent extremist groups have created scepticism on the US side," she said, adding that this is a partnership that is absolutely vital to US national interests.

    "But it is also complex. And the need for candid dialogue and mutual reassurance remains very strong, and I believe we have made substantial progress in this regard over the last year," she said.

    India too has moved troops from the Pakistan border with US making "overtures, obviously, that trying to diminish the feeling of a threat there will have mutual benefits and a lessening of tensions within the region," another official testified.

    "And I think we have good partners and allies on both sides of the India-Pakistan equation," Lt. Gen John Paxton, Director for Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff said.


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...t-India-says-official/articleshow/5875342.cms
     
  19. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    All depends on the nomenclature as perceived by usa and pakistan for them both good bad ugly differs from each others perception. and for india perception all those who attack india are ugly.be it in afghanistan or in india.And yes,good bad ugly nomenclature also define the double gaming.well you can boast of '"we dont need anyone's NOC" in your mind but then facts on ground are that pakistan's NOC is issued from Langley,pentagon and white house.And all those predators flying around unchallenged in pakistai airspace proves the issuance of NOC from outside.

    "humko maloom hai jannat ki hakikat lekin
    dil behalane ko galib yeh khayal accha hai";)
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  20. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    So you accept that you are going to kill more of your people once money is paid for killing them.
     
  21. DaRk WaVe

    DaRk WaVe Regular Member

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    Indian nomenclature is also changing, Predators were already explained by me in a different thread, go look for it the matter of fact is

    'dil behalane wala kam koi bhr kr sakta, tum logo agr dil behal rah ha to behle, hume kia, NOC ke zarurat ni ha, Amerki agr NOC issue kr den to koi khas faqar ni pare ga'

    BTW you still havent told me are you Indian or Pakistani?
     

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