Pakistan gifted Gwadar Port to China?

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by JAYRAM, Jun 2, 2011.

  1. JAYRAM

    JAYRAM 2 STRIKE CORPS Senior Member

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    By MICHAEL WINES
    Published: May 26, 2011


    BEIJING — This is officially the Year of Pakistan-China Friendship, and in a four-day visit to Beijing last week — the third in just 17 months — Pakistan’s prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, proclaimed that the two best friends “are like one nation and two countries.” Chinese officials were reported to have presented Mr. Gilani with 50 fighter jets as a welcome gift.

    So it raised eyebrows when this week the two nations politely disagreed over whether Mr. Gilani had given the Chinese a gift that would be hard to mislay: an entire naval base, right at the mouth of the Persian Gulf.

    Pakistan’s defense minister, Ahmad Mukhtar, who accompanied Mr. Gilani on the state visit, announced the deal after Mr. Gilani returned home on Saturday.

    “We have asked our Chinese brothers to please build a naval base at Gwadar,” a deepwater port on Pakistan’s southwest coast, he told journalists.

    Moreover, he said, Pakistan had invited China to assume management of the port’s commercial operations, now run by a Singapore firm under a multidecade contract.

    On Tuesday, however, China’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, disagreed, saying the port had neither been offered nor accepted.

    “China and Pakistan are friendly neighbors,” she said at the ministry’s twice-weekly news conference. “Regarding the specific China-Pakistan cooperative project that you raised, I have not heard of it. It’s my understanding that during the visit last week this issue was not touched upon.”

    Some analysts were at a loss to explain the discrepancy.

    “Maybe there were some discussions between the two sides when Gilani was up in China last week, bearing on some kind of future Chinese stewardship of the port,” said Michael Kugelman, a South Asia scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center in Washington, in a telephone interview. “Maybe there was some speculative discussion. Perhaps the Defense Ministry simply got its signals wrong.”

    “We’re seeing a lot of incompetence in the Pakistani government these days,” he added.

    Others, however, saw Mr. Mukhtar’s announcement as a pointed, if graceless, effort to send a message to the United States that Pakistan had other options should its foundering relationship with Washington prove beyond repair. Ties between the two nations, never very warm, have been icy since American commandos killed Osama bin Laden in a raid inside Pakistan that went undetected by the nation’s military and intelligence establishments.

    Pakistan has an interest in sustaining ties with the United States, which has given the nation billions of dollars in economic and military aid in return for Islamabad’s help in combating terrorism.

    But China has long been its closest major ally, with political, economic and military ties that extend to the founding of the People’s Republic of China more than 60 years ago.

    China regards Pakistan as a strategic bulwark against its longstanding rival, India, and it needs Pakistan’s help to combat Islamic separatists in the Xinjiang region, which abuts Pakistan’s northern border.

    Indeed, China contributed much of the millions of dollars that have been spent to build Gwadar, the only port in Pakistan big enough to handle the largest cargo ships.

    Some analysts say China stands to gain from the rift between Pakistan and the United States. In an editorial this month, Global Times, a major Communist Party newspaper, took pains to praise Pakistan’s commitment to the fight against terrorism and to note that China had been an unswerving friend.

    That was an unspoken gibe at the United States, which many Pakistanis fear will abandon them once the war in Afghanistan winds down.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/world/asia/27beijing.html?_r=1
     
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  3. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    Maybe is too soon. Business comes first.

    Naval port, maybe later.
     
  4. Dark_Prince

    Dark_Prince Regular Member

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    What business are you planning to do with pakistanis!!
     
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  5. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    Business "through" Gwadar port. To bypass the Malacca.
     
  6. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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  7. Dark_Prince

    Dark_Prince Regular Member

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    So, how do you intend to pay cash or kind? To whom to the people of pakistan or their mercenary army?
     
  8. Dark_Prince

    Dark_Prince Regular Member

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    So, how do you intend to pay cash or kind? To whom? To the people of pakistan or their mercenary army?
     
  9. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    After seeing this news i got an intention to repeat classic(stupid) pakistani slogan "we should nuke it". Jokes apart, if China thinks, with Gwadar-Karakoram pass they will be able bypass naval blockade then they are fooling themselves. Today Indian Navy is very capable of chocking Gwadar port to death at will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  10. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    That is a war scenario. We're talking about trade through sea during peace.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  11. Phenom

    Phenom Regular Member

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    So you want to bypass a largely peaceful area and go through what's probably the one of the most dangerous area in the entire world. Malacca strait may be unsafe during any Sino-Indian war but Gwadar is unsafe all the time.
     
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  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    During peace they are better off going via Malaccas.
     
  13. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    How can Pakistan gift Gwadar port to China? Is there anything inside Pakistan, that they own? Terrorists own everything. They come out of nowhere, strike at will, kill anyone they want to, destroy surveillance aircrafts, and the list is long. If China thinks they can play their game of sucking Pakistan dry, then they have not included the terrorists in their equation. Just like NATO supplies, Chinese ar$e$ will get whipped from Gwadar till GB.

    Pakistan, grow some [email protected]$ and some brains too!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  14. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    I'd agree. Once you're out of Gwadar and into the sea, its ok. But how would you reach Gwadar from Pak-China border transiting through entire Pakistan .. this Pakistan ?? Traveling 25% of that length is giving goosebumps to Americans.
    What is the guarantee that the mercenaries who would kill anyone to remain relavant, will not touch the Chinese interest ?? Specially when the Government is weak and everyone in armed forces have their own ideology and their own agenda ??
    Does CPC or PLA have any idea how many Pakistani soldiers and civilians have died due to militant and sectarian violence in Pakistan lately? The picture is very grim. If they could trade, good for them but I don't see a way here.
    I think they do realize it, which is why China is talking bullish but working with discretion and caution.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
  15. pi314159

    pi314159 Guest

    The Gwadar+Karakoram serves a backup route for China. It seems riskier and less economic than Malacca route now, but risk and expensiveness are relative, in certain situations it might be the only choice. Even in normal situations, when you have a backup, you have more bargain power in primary route.

    From government's perspective investing in infrastructure like roads and ports is perhaps the best way to stimulate local economy, it is a win-win scenario.

    As many posts have pointed out above, Gwadar, like other ports on so-called chain of pearls, is hardly militarily defensible at war time. The best it can do from military point of view is to provide logistics, therefore cut cost, to PLAN's peace time operations, other than that its military value is next to zero, just my 2 cents.
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    In the even of a war, Indian Navy will take it out. China cannot use Gwadar as an alternative to Malaccas. India can seal out the Arabian Ocean.

    I can only think of Gwadar as a port for the Chinese western region for quick transportation rather than use it's own eastern seaports. Works out economically. They look at it as a way to improve it's western regions which are economically behind the rest of the country.
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Pakistani intention of wanting the Chinese to make into a naval base is just to save it's behind from India hide behind the Chinese. China is not stupid to do that. It wants to fight India to the last Pakistani and not get involved in any Indo pak war directly.
     
  18. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    If vessels are not "Chinese flagged", they cannot be attacked, unless declare war.
     
  19. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Of course Indian Navy is capable of attacking any port that is circling Indian ocean. But that doesn't mean Gwadar port is useless, one of benefits of turning the port into a Chinese naval base I can think of is to give Chinese navy a foothold in Indian ocean during peaceful time. Using Gwadar port as a base, Chinese navy can maintain a constant presence at Indian ocean to prevent India from pursuing any adventurism for no good cause, as well as keep Indian Navy under surveillance.
     
  20. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    The questions is, can China do have to will to carry on with the plan? At least, I m getting a feeling that China has put hold on to this plan
     
  21. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well I was just countering the Gwadar-port-being-useless theory by some Indian members. But you raised a good point, China is a little concerned about how the other countries will react if China turns Gwadar port into a Chinese naval port given the bad reputation China is having.

    It requires a strong will to deploy Chinese military force outside China for the first time, people should understand such move means a lot, it may indicate China has to transform its defence policy. China is gonna be every prudent and cautious on this, so it is understandable for you to feel China is putting hold onto this plan.

    Nonetheless, my understanding is China will proceed with such plan, maybe not the Gwadar port but some other ports, sooner or later. Indian ocean is becoming extremely important to China, surrendering it to a country who is unfriendly to China poses too much threat to Chinese national and economical security.
     

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