Pakistan erased an entire International New York Times cover story

[Pratap]

Thank you.

I have not been there, but since you were there and have interacted with them, we must give way!

If we can not agree even on widespread popularity of Urdu, how can we agree on other things?

 

[thethinker]

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The writer is Director South Asian Media School and speaks about his opinions.
Like I stated earlier, media enjoys the freedom to bash PA and ISI but does not necessarily represent national sentiment.

And how do you represent national sentiment? Please be detailed in how you arrived at the conclusion that millions of Pakistanis revere ISI when there are many contradictions within Pakistan.

Some data and factual background would be welcome. Also a breakdown of those Pakistanis residing in Pakistan v/s those abroad who support ISI would be awesome!

 

[Neo]

Here I disagree with you.

Let whatever is printed in a foreign newspaper be there.

The people are intelligent enough to gauge for themselves and sift the wheat from the chaff.

As soon as there is censorship, people start believing that there must have been something worth in it, wherein the authorities blanked it out.

This will only encourage people to seek it on the internet.

Today, nothing can be hidden, but if an attempt is made, it arouse curiosity and belief that there could be something true, and so they will go to the internet to read it and also see the comments thereof!

More damage than letting the news out and letting people judge. Then there are Pakistani newspapers who could lambast the story under Opinions or Editorials.

I feel sorry for Pakistan Govt that they do not use their brains to handle adverse international comments!

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I agree Sir, in this era of electronic media news can not be hidden. Eventhough we hate biased foreign media, with 31 million internet users the news giants like CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera are extremely popular in Pakistan.

I know you read Dawn, Tribune Express and Day Times so you ought to know what is being written.
Local journalists do write editorials, opinions, blogs or letters and publish them in news papers throughout the country, there is no curb on writing anti Pa or anti ISI articles. There are even online polls to understand national sentiment.

But I don't see why we should expose our people to western speculations.
IIRC some years ago when US casualties were high in Afghanistan, Washington urged the media not to publish pictures of the dead.
This was a clear violation of the first act but it served national interest.

We have the right to censor foreign propaganda based on speculations if it is in national interest.

 

[Ray]

If we can not agree even on widespread popularity of Urdu, how can we agree on other things?

I agree that you are the expert having interacted with terrorists and separatists out there in Peshawar who speak Urdu.

You are the man in Baghdad or should I say, Peshawar, Pakistan!

Good to know your antecedents and your affiliations.

How come Bangladesh came into being, if all loved Urdu, and incorrectly surmised by you that it was an Islamic language.

Urdu is an Indian language.

Its birth is India!

Any ultra nationalist as you should be proud of that fact!

The word Urdu is derived from the same Turkic word ordu (army) that has given English horde.

From the establishment of the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal Empire until the British Raj, Hindustani, written in the Urdu script, was the language of both Hindus and Muslims. The language was variously known as Hindi, Hindavi and Dehlavi. The communal nature of the language lasted until it replaced Persian as the official language in 1837 and was made co-official, along with English.

This triggered a Hindu backlash in northwestern India, which argued that the language should be written in the native Devanagari script. Thus a new literary register, called "Hindi", replaced traditional Hindustani as the official language of Bihar in 1881, establishing a sectarian divide of "Urdu" for Muslims and "Hindi" for Hindus, a divide that was formalized with the division of India and Pakistan after independence (though there are Hindu poets who continue to write in Urdu to this day[citation.

At independence, Pakistan established a highly Persianized literary standard of Urdu as its national language.

 

[Neo]

You'd be more credible if you were actually living in Pak.

There is a massive divergence of views among folks who actually live there and how they see the real state of affairs versus those who are living somewhere abroad and are jingoists to the core.

Anything from Pak media not suiting your views is deemed as a "joke", or a conspiracy theory.

Frankly, local Pakistani reporters have a balanced and actually reasonable view as well as opinion of what is going on in that country unlike you who preach mightiness of Pak while tucked away in a foreign land come hell or high water.

.
My famy has had the honor to serve in the military and intelligence services for decades.
So do 't tell me that I don't know mu country or whats happening there, I understand it better than average Pakistani!

You are forgetting that these very same balanced reporters questioned the Army for not leading a coup against Zardari after the raid on Islamabad. These same balanced reporters expressed their outrage when they learnt that Zardari had written to Washington asking Obama to protect him against a coup.

 

[Ray]

I know you read Dawn, Tribune Express and Day Times so you ought to know what is being written.
Local journalists do write editorials, opinions, blogs or letters and publish them in news papers throughout the country, there is no curb on writing anti Pa or anti ISI articles. There are even online polls to understand national sentiment.

But I don't see why we should expose our people to western speculations.
IIRC some years ago when US casualties were high in Afghanistan, Washington urged the media not to publish pictures of the dead.
This was a clear violation of the first act but it served national interest.

We have the right to censor foreign propaganda based on speculations if it is in national interest.

@Neo

Thanks that you informed the folks that I do read Pakistani newspapers online.

It is important to know how the world thinks.

Western propaganda is not only targeted at Pakistan, but also everywhere in the third world.

We allow such stuff, but our newspapers take it on as do our politicians and govt.

That way, one is confounded by silence and censorship.

However, if you opine censorship is good for Pakistan, then so be it!

 

[thethinker]

.
My famy has had the honor to serve in the military and intelligence services for decades.
So do 't tell me that I don't know mu country or whats happening there, I understand it better than average Pakistani!

You are forgetting that these very same balanced reporters questioned the Army for not leading a coup against Zardari after the raid on Islamabad. These same balanced reporters expressed their outrage when they learnt that Zardari had written to Washington asking Obama to protect him against a coup.

Is that why so many of your reporters end up dead? Wonder who rules Pakistan in reality?

 

[Neo]

Isn't PPP Pakistani? And as per you, doesn't everyone in Pakistan respect and revere the sacred ISI and Pak army institutions?

Or is there any other Pakistan that I am missing? Or do you want your own quote to be displayed again verbatim?

.
PPP is a party of Sindhi feudals and does not represent the aam admi be it Sindhi or any other ethnicity. She suffered badly in last elections.
Who is she to judge PA or ISI when she herself is induldged in unconstitutional practices?
She has no mert, zero credibility.

 

[thethinker]

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PPP is a party of Sindhi feudals and does not represent the aam admi be it Sindhi or any other ethnicity. She suffered badly in last elections.
Who is she to judge PA or ISI when she herself is induldged in unconstitutional practices?
She has no mert, zero credibility.

So :

a) Any party that questions ISI has no credibility
b) Reporters who write against ISI are anti-national

Good that Pakistan is such a democratic country with no censorship and an army that has no political leanings.:thumb:

Truly, the national sentiment that you speak of and how ISI is revered by millions in Pakistan must be credible and surely represent the views of average Pakistani!

 

[Neo]

Pakistan before the Liberation of East Pakistan had a common language - Urdu.

It was not accepted by the Bengalis of East Pakistan, and so there was the Language Agitation. Even so, Urdu remained the language of Pakistan including East Pakistan!
'
Islam was the raison d'être for the creation of Pakistan, to include East Pakistan.

The languages of Pakistan are not similar to Punjabi or Urdu.

Pashto is a member of the Eastern Iranian languages group.

Brahui is a Dravidian language of central and east-central Balochistan. The language has been influenced by neighbouring Balochi and to a lesser extent by Sindhi and Pashto. 1–1.5% of the Pakistani population has Brahui as their first language. It is one of the nine distinguished languages of Pakistan.

One could go on.......

Well said Sir!

East Pakistan was a mistake, she should have been independant from the first day.
I agree with Mujib-ur-Rehman's famous quote: "If Islam is the only thing we have in comon (with West Pakistan) then why not be a part of Kuweit?"

 

[Ray]

Well said Sir!

East Pakistan was a mistake, she should have been independant from the first day.
I agree with Mujib-ur-Rehman's famous quote: "If Islam is the only thing we have in comon (with West Pakistan) then why not be a part of Kuweit?"

@Pratap.

Here is non bigoted & a 'live' Pakistani speaking and not any Google link!

It is time you do some research and not shoot your mouth with your airy fairy half cocked speculations and old wives tales!

 

[Neo]

You sir are a master of selective reasoning and confirmation bias. :thumb:

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I am someone who has travelled all corners of Pakistan and knows and understands the country well.

 

[thethinker]

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I am someone who has travelled all corners of Pakistan and knows and understands the country well.

Yet you are a Dutch national of Pakistani origin and living in Holland.

 

[Pratap]

Well said Sir!

East Pakistan was a mistake, she should have been independant from the first day.
I agree with Mujib-ur-Rehman's famous quote: "If Islam is the only thing we have in comon (with West Pakistan) then why not be a part of Kuweit?"

And why did that bastard Mujib Rehman create an independent Bangladesh? If it is about Bengali identity, what about merging with west bengal.

Let me tell him why he need not be part of Kuwait ?

1. There was India and Pakistan was for Indian muslims alone( not kuwaitis or arabs or turks)

2. Dhaka and Lahore have been ruled by same rulers for centuries unlike Kuwait

3. Both people are Indo Aryan language speakers unlike Kuwaitis.

4. No opposition to Pakistan when it was formed

5. The idea of Pakistan was formed, created and nurtured among Muslims of Bengal not what is now Pakistan.


If Bangladesh not part of Pakistan, how come Mizoram or Kashmir part of India? Ofcourse, both are parts of India and pakistan itself is part of India. We should reconvert the population of both countries and then there will be reunification.

 

[Neo]

Is that why so many of your reporters end up dead? Wonder who rules Pakistan in reality?

Weak argument; last year almost same nber of journalists were killed in India. Does it give me the reason to question who rules India?

 

[Pratap]

@Pratap.

Here is non bigoted & a 'live' Pakistani speaking and not any Google link!

It is time you do some research and not shoot your mouth with your airy fairy half cocked speculations and old wives tales!

This Pakistani is not true Pakistani .

 

[Neo]

Yet you are a Dutch national of Pakistani origin and living in Holland.

So what is the point?

 

[thethinker]

Weak argument; last year almost same nber of journalists were killed in India. Does it give me the reason to question who rules India?

We are dissecting the glorious ISI here (the sacred institution respected by Pakistanis as you claim).

Here is something ISI related:

Profile: Pakistan's ISI - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

The government in Islamabad has typically had little authority over the ISI during Pakistan's periods of civilian rule. Prime minister Yousaf Raza Gilani tried to bring the ISI under civilian control in 2008, when he issued an order which put the agency under the control of the interior ministry.

The army quickly denounced that change as "unworkable," and Gilani reversed his decision hours later.

So who rules Pakistan?

 

[Neo]

And why did that bastard Mujib Rehman create an independent Bangladesh? If it is about Bengali identity, what about merging with west bengal.

Let me tell him why he need not be part of Kuwait ?

1. There was India and Pakistan was for Indian muslims alone( not kuwaitis or arabs or turks)

2. Dhaka and Lahore have been ruled by same rulers for centuries unlike Kuwait

3. Both people are Indo Aryan language speakers unlike Kuwaitis.

4. No opposition to Pakistan when it was formed

5. The idea of Pakistan was formed, created and nurtured among Muslims of Bengal not what is now Pakistan.


If Bangladesh not part of Pakistan, how come Mizoram or Kashmir part of India? Ofcourse, both are parts of India and pakistan itself is part of India. We should reconvert the population of both countries and then there will be reunification.

True that Bangalis fought bravely for Pakistan and we acknowledge their offers, striggle and suffering like brothers. But the creators of Pakistan or the British did not think of the fact that having two wings seperated by 1.600 miles of. Ery hostile enemy would be alogistic, economic, political and military nightmare. Alianation and seperation was inevitable and if Jinnah would have been more pragmatic, he would have advised Dhaka to go independantfrom the very beginning. She could still have adopted the name East Pakistan and become a souvreign nation.

 

[thethinker]

So what is the point?

The irony is amusing. A Pakistani origin Dutch national living in Holland, claiming to know Pak very well from inside and rejecting any facts critical of ISI originating from Pakistan itself.