Pakistan does not want Indian Army out of Kashmir

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by Yusuf, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Another attack has taken place on National Conference worker after the earlier attack on its minister ever since Omar Abdullah started to demand the withdrawal of Indian Army from Jammu and Kashmir.

    Obviously the Pakistanis are behind it through their warriors in the form of terrorists. I have come to the conclusion that they (the Pak Army) don't want the Omar Abdullah government to be successful in getting the IA out from Kashmir. It does not serve their purpose but harms it. First it reduces its (PA) legitimacy, second, it sets back Pak agenda on Kashmir as withdrawal of Indian forces from Kashmir means India fulfills its part of the UN resolution on Kashmir which will oblige Pakistan to do the same and then calls for plebiscite will come around. Pakistan knows fully well that it will not be able to survive a plebiscite as proven by Indian elections where people overwhelmingly participated. People of Kashmir know where their brighter future lies and have understood Pak agenda in Kashmir. They know what's happening in Balochistan and how the rights of the Baloch are being violated.

    An Indian Army withdrawal will mean an end to Pak Army and it's agenda.

    While this is my thinking on Pak sponsored attacks on Omar Abdullah government, I also believe that we cannot withdraw our forces from Kashmir just yet. Pakis will up the ante and the security situation will worsen there.

    One thing is for sure, the Omar Abdullah government is being targetted for a reason and that is to stop the withdrawal of Indian Army.
     
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  3. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    In the larger picture and long term, the conditions may change and IA may come to point to pull out and show the people what happens in Kashmir without the presence of INDIAN ARMY and lets hope that what u said happens, it is always good to have peaceful solution, without any loss of lives.
     
  4. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Pak is a disillusioned entity who has no identity of it's own and it's existense is based on HATRED based on religion.It's national agenda is to fuel a conflict with India so that their elite keep ruling the awaam like a dumb pack of animals.

    It would be intresting to see any significant reduction in IA in future.But Pak doesn't seems to be intrested in anything less than occupying whole Kashmir by force and then making further plans for fueling another conflict in India.It did Kargil even when there were was a big number of IA presence in the Kashmir so just think what if would happen if IA pulls out.If Pak actually cared for the well being of Kashmiri awaam then it would FIRST take its own troops out of kashmir and show to the world that they are not the agressor and are looking for a peaceful solution of the conflict but we all know Pak only needs Kashmir in the name of religion.
     
  5. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    While Pakistan doesn't want it and I agree with your thinking, we must understand that Omar is not strong enough to deal with the situation single handedly. The reason why he is having his liberties around with the F1 visits and stuff is simply because the Army has kept the forwards areas of J&K on tight control. Without the military, J&K would be a political mess, a militant haven again, while Omar and family would be hiding somewhere in London or Belgium with a political asylum, while our soldiers would have to start all over again.

    That is something we all don't want. Our soldiers endured 15 years of hell to get J&K back to this point what it is today. Omar and NC being weak in front of terrorist supporters like PDP (Mehbooba), JKLF (Yasin Malik), Hurriyat (Geela-ni) etc, it is important that Army stays in the state as long as Pakistan is intact. Once Pakistan as an entity disintegrates, we don't have much to worry about as the ideology that is keeping them like a broken packet of biscuits, falls apart.

    The removal of AFSPA was something I was TOTALLY against at personal levels, because the genuine indigenous population of Kashmir has not returned yet; a glaring indication that Kashmir is still not normal. What's more, having heard from my brother there, (only generic statements) things aren't like what a typical Indian state should be. It is still pretty much a slightly "alienish" sort of state.

    Until Pakistan collapses, IA has to stay there and I am sure as our military gets stronger, future generals will refuse any dissolution of AFSPA at all.

    Instead, removing AFSPA in Manipur is more relevant because having infantry troops to fight against shoot-and-scoot terrorists is an idiotic and archaic concept. Instead, Manipur and Nagaland must have "Ghost" special forces; forces that have no name or identity officially but strike fear in the minds of terrorists rather than commoners feeling nervous and terrorists manipulating the minds of local youths.
     
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  6. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    That is secondary too since Kashmir was not an Islamic state and rather forced to become one. The only reason first and foremost Pakistan wants J&K is because of one vital point: Rivers.

    While our idiotic scamming politicians have not realized, they with their twisted minds have realized how we can make these rivers into weapons and use it against them without even firing a single bullet. That's why J&K interests them.


    If religion alone was an argument, then Balochistan (a Muslim province with few Hindu Balochis) would have been the pride of the nation and been as developed as Karachi city at the least. Not hunted down like foxes.
     
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  7. mehwish92

    mehwish92 Founding Member

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    1) India will do everything it can to prevent a plebiscite in Kashmir. There is still a large percentage of the population of the Valley that is pro-Pakistan. Despite all that is happening in Pakistan, these people still wish to be a part of Pakistan, because they, like Pakistanis, believe that all the mess in that country is being caused by America/India/Israel. These people still have a soft spot for Pakistan, and it will take a few more generations, in my opinion, to get a Pro-India majority in Kashmir (as long as long as India continues to grow and Pakistan continues to self-destruct).

    I think its really hard to say in whose favor the plebiscite would go. Though it is quite clear that if the option of Independence from both nations were to be provided as well, then majority of Kashmiris would choose that option.

    2) The Kashmiris (atleast the hardliners) believe that NC is being targeted by the Indian Army, because they are getting desperate and know that India will lose Kashmir if the army leaves.
     
  8. illusion8

    illusion8 Regular Member

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    Too much credit being given to Pakistanis, I spent a few months in PDF to gauge pakistani's in general and found most of them dumb, disillusioned and emotionally foolish, I wouldn't rate a PK's brain much to strategize vis a vis Kashmir, They can do infiltrations and terrorist attacks, but actual planned strategy for Kashmir by Pk's - they are too dumb to think or pull it off.
     
  9. Rahul M

    Rahul M Regular Member

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    not sure IA can pull out troops from the state even if pakistan wanted, given that it is surrounded by two adversaries on 3 sides and has a number of vital points that need to be guarded.

    right now army has anyway given up most COIN duties to CPO's and RR, which operates under MHA.
     
  10. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Indian Army in Kashmir.

    Yes they are in Kashmir but 99% of the Army is in the LoC not in civilian areas. This is one of the biggest myths being peddled by the Pakis and also by the self declared human right champions that presence of Army alienates the Kashmiris.

    This myth needs to be broken down..but sadly I don't see it happening and seeing some human rights activists spew their venom on the TV without an iota of ground knowledge makes me cringe as to what they eat in the place of food.
     
  11. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Media nowadays is not about reporting facts, but distorting information to create certain perceptions among the audience.
     
  12. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    The state of J&K is more than the valley. The folks in Jammu and Ladakh (which include a significant number of Muslims) have no wish to be a part of Pakistan or even an independent nation. Pro-Pak feelings are confined to the valley, albeit with a substantial population.

    Regarding the plebiscite, the UN resolutions called for Pakistan to withdraw all its forces from the state. The plebiscite was dependent on the situation in the entire state of J&K being what it existed before 1948, which is an impossibility. The demographic changes in the Pak occupied Kashmir and the ethnic cleansing of Pandits from the valley, render any chances of plebiscite moot.

    Of course they'll believe this. They have to peddle their nonsense don't they. The separatists are the ones getting desperate because they find thmselves losing much of the support and sympathy they had in the 90s.
     
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  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Without Kashmir, there is no bogeyman to fight for the 'safety' of Pakistan against the 'horrid' India!

    It will be the end of the Pakistani dream!

    And the end of the raison d’être of the Pakistan Army!
     
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  14. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Karthic, that is because most of these human rights activists fund and support terrorism in India. It should be amply evident if you run a search through Google as to how much these shadow terrorists supported Jihad against India in 1990s in J&K. If we get a semi-authoritarian non-oh-my-god-democratic government under someone like Modi, the first objective would be to hunt and cull these scum.

    50% of terror threats in India will automatically stop.
     
  15. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    These human rights bugs are always crying ignoring the bigger picture.......if these bugs had their day then insurgency in Punjab would have never solved.
     
  16. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    thrice peace offer came from pakistan to permanently settle kashmir. but what happened? either the regime was ousted in paksitan or some bullshit thin happens completely derailing settlement deal.

    they too know that with indian forces out they too have to vacate kashmir and then the gilgit, which now is their fifth province will go away or will be at stake and given the economic resources of India, anything can happen, Indian intel may succeed in changing the output of result of resolution
     
  17. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What can one do for a country that takes water for granted and wastes and then banks on Allah and India to save them from their stupidity!
     

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