Pakistan defers purchase of J10B Fighters

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by A.V., Feb 17, 2010.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    i just came across this interesting statement delivered onfeb 15 by top PAF official shows clearly

    1> that PAF is still to decide on the J-10B and they are unsure of their capabilities.

    2>the 36 order that they were talking about and already in pipeline was not j-10B but basic J-10A<FC-20> which is considered far inferior

    3> china would provide a cut down version of the fighter or refused to lend money

    ALL SANE MINDS TAKE YOUR PICK clap


    http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=158809

     
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  3. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    They have no other option, What else are they going to get
     
  4. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    They always have the option of going for some more F-16s.
     
  5. ISI

    ISI Regular Member

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    Other options are there for example F-16s ,Typphoon,rafayle or F-18 as all of them are offered to us.
    And we are looking for J10B or FC-20 not J-10 as if we needed the J10s we would have gotten then in 2005..
    There are also plans suggesting PAF may buy around 150 FC-20s with TOT as it was stated by Pak defence minister on the inaugration of JF-17s production facility.
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  7. ISI

    ISI Regular Member

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  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    What radar and Engine will be in these Chinese planes??
     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    You think France will offer you Rafale, EADS will offer you Eurofighter? Europe is trying to open Indian markets, not close them. There is a reason Russia won't directly sell anything to Pakistan, that is why they control 75% of Indian arms imports. Pak didn't want J-10 because it was an inferior specimen. They are waiting to see if J-10B will be all it is hoped, a true 4th gen fighter.
     
  10. ISI

    ISI Regular Member

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    @Armand:
    Rafale,typhoon and gripen were offered to Pakistan in the past.But due to 2005 we turned down our decesion.I hope u remmeber.
    French sold us Agostas and sold u scorpenes?and now they are offering us there 5th generation Marlene?they offered us radars for JF-17 MICA radars as well as sold u Mirage 2000s.
    Germans offering us U-214 Boats which are 95% completed according to german officials.
    Sweden sold us SAAB AWACS.
    I hope i answered ur queries
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Really? I hope you remember...

    Sweden won't sell Gripen fighter planes to Pakistan
    http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/07pak.htm

    Pakistan could never afford Rafale or Eurofighter to even ask for it.

    The JF-17 upgrade does not have government approval and is stalled because of our negotiations with India. The Germans are still stalling the U boats to Pakistan.

    It is not an offencive weapon.

    I hope you open your eyes and see that Europe is playing to India, not Pakistan.
     
  12. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    I know your reply was not for me, But i would like to offer my two cents as well

    Well for starters. Lets be honest, companies make these machines and will sell it to almost anyone that can help them make a profit.
    Currently that anyone is not Pakistan.

    If you are not aware your Country passed a law preventing the acquisition of any twin engine fighter aircraft into the PAF . This was done in an attempt to cut costs and make the current fleet size more affordable.

    That means the EF and French Rafael are out, full stop. And even if you managed to get the cash to buy a size able fleet. Its an affordable option.

    That leaves us with the SAAB Griphen. well is suppose you could get that, Sweden is a neutral country it does not take sides. But turns out you could not even find that affordable either.

    And my last point on this. All the machines offered to Pakistan were of a significantly less advanced to the one offered to India.

    EF to India comes with new A2G weapons, AESA , trust vectoring and almost full ToT

    Rafael to India comes with AESA and Full ToT including source codes for the radar, and Even assistance in installing the Kaveri Engine into the Rafael.

    SAAB is also upping the game to India by not just offering the Griphen but the Griphen NG, a significantly more advanced machine.

    In fact all the offers made to India for the MMRCA were planes that had to have their features improved through New R&D. Because as they are in their present form, They cant even qualify for the MMRCA deal.
    That's whats been offered to India

    State of the Art Tech, which is still undergoing Field testing


    So what are trying to prove, Scorpène class submarine are the much more advanced successors to the Agostas.

    In fact more countries have bought Scorpène class submarine's then they have Agostas

    Brazil in fact is so confident in its design that


    Give me a source about this offer, as far as i understand, it is the The Pakistan Navy that is currently evaluating the possibility of purchasing 3 Marlin class boats to replace its decommissioned Daphné class submarine.

    No offer has been made yet.

    Either way, India has much more leverage in France then Pakistan.


    Correction they may have offered you some radar for the JF17 upgrades.

    But India was offered.

    Also lets not forget They are also Upgrading the IAF Mirage Fleet for 2.1 billion dollars.

    No subs have been seen for years. Its been in Lingo years.

    Whilst Germany Makes statements like this.

    http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article97199.ece

    Germany seems very intent of furthering the relationship with India, I wonder why India has been so Unresponsive to Germany's overtures.

    Give Germany enough of a guaranteed Incentive and it will Dump the U-214 deal with Pakistan. If They felt differently they would have already sold you those submarines .

    From My POV Germany seems to be considering its options

    AWACS is a non offensive weapons system.

    and there is no ToT what so ever on the purchase.

    Also SAAB is involved in about 20 different defense projects India. The largest being the MMRCA. It is also looking to partner up with India firms.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=M8Vqh3ZAPwg&v=8VTMGoBGokg[/video]

    SAAB is looking to invest a lot in India, A few sales to Pakistan is not their top priority.

    But you dont get the joke of the whole deal do you.
    Your getting your Jet engines from your Arch Rivals Best friend.

    Off course Russia has its own Foreign policy and it can act as it see's fit.

    You are none the less getting an engine that India knows everything about.
    An engine that makes the JF-17 more underpowered then the Tejas.
    An engine bought from a company that does extensive work with India.

    Not only can India have an Approximate number of JF-17's and spares. through Info on sales of the RD-93

    During and after wartime. It reduces Pakistan's Ability to replace losses.

    Honestly, how can you site that as a positive, Russia is very Unreliable supplier to Pakistan and Huge security Leak with regards to India's relations with Russia.

    Its certainly not in their Interests to Upset their Largest importer of weapons and their Biggest Strategic Partner.

    We are not the boss of Russia, But Russia has a vested Interest in Good relations with India. They felt indirect sales of engines would not jeopardize those interests, then i guess there was a Punch line we all missed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  13. IBM

    IBM Regular Member

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    Everybody in this world have stopped giving money to Pakistan. Neither muslim world nor so called, friends of Pakistan, which includes EU,japan and China coming for aid. What ever AID is coming, is directly spend on development projects..these are called non military aid. USA and china have no option but to give there old,inferior birds to their parasite friend in order to continue their war on terror.
     
  14. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    dont troll,

    PAK is in fact still growing despite its whole mess of problems.
    Pak still receives foreign investment, i guess slick marketing.
    IMF and other organizations exist to Help countries like Pakistan

    I'm not usually the advocate or the defender of Pakistan. But i dont want people to just make stuff up like magical scenarios where Pak will just suffer economic collapse tomorrow.

    fact remains Pak less politically stable then economically. economically its their self inflicted slump, They have the means to recover if they made the right moves, Getting rid of terror camps and increasing trade with India for one . Politically its their continuing disaster they call democracy, but in reality is everything but.

    Bottom line dude, dont just make generalizations and take pot shots, try to be a little bit more subjective and on topic
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This talk reminds of the time pakistani President claimed french gave them a nuclear deal last year, it's all talk until you see it happen.
     
  16. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think that is a major setback for Pakistan. They no longer have confidence in the supposedly advanced J-10! Even for JF-17 they had to go for Western avionics and weapons package. A vote of no confidence in Chinese stuff?
     
  17. ISI

    ISI Regular Member

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  18. ISI

    ISI Regular Member

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    Friends the thing is tht happiness and sadness dont always remain.
    We were pretty wrecked thts to WOT but we are starting to show improvement.
    10% improve in economy and thanks to army this year not much terrorism.Just waiting for the tali scums die.
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Along with that the LeT and the likes too. Ameen.
     
  20. IBM

    IBM Regular Member

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    Iam not trolling. Iam giving you the real picture. Bottom line is Pak is in great econimic mess.There finance minister has resigned and country is runing without finance minister for 15 daysnow. IMF and WB are there. Because of them the taxes are higher in Pak and they monitor their money they lended. US wants its audit office in Pak( u know why, coz Pak has most beautiful locations). Now you will say iam trolling. Anyhow back to topic, iam saying Pak has no money to buy millitary stuff and countries like china,EU and saudis have stopped givivng them soft loans to buy millitary stuff.So, in order to continue their war on terror they have to compliment pak with some thing. DOYOU SERIOUSLY THINK PAK CAN COME OUT OF THIS ECONOMIC AND POLITCAL MESS ANYTIME SOON??????????????????????????????????????????????????
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  21. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    Dude i already gave you my opinion on your points. We all know the reason they are buying from China is because of price.

    Also China is still giving Pakistan Loans, And even credit on Arms sales.

    Hell Pak will literally end up owing China for 100 years, after this.
     

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