Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain
TAIPEI AND ISLAMABAD — Tough International Monetary Fund conditions on Pakistan and concerns about untested technology likely will delay Islamabad's plan to buy 36 J-10B Vigorous Dragon multirole fighters from China under a $1.4 billion deal signed in 2009, analysts said.

Current economic conditions "preclude any possibility of acquiring new weapon systems in the next two to three years, at least," said retired Pakistani Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, a veteran fighter and test pilot who is now an independent military analyst in Lahore.

Under IMF loan terms, the government faces harsh conditions on raising revenue and controlling spending, including on military equipment.

A Chinese defense delegation visited Pakistan the last week of September to discuss the status of stalled defense deals. Whether this included the J-10 order is unclear.

The J-10B Super-10 is an advanced variant of the J-10A, first fielded in late 2003 with China's Air Force. The new Super-10 will reportedly be powered by the Chinese-designed WS-10A turbofan engine, which will replace the J-10A's Russian Saturn AL-31FN. Built by Chengdu Aircraft Industries, the jet is based on Israel's Lavi indigenous fighter program by Israel Aerospace Industries that was canceled in 1987.

Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable, "rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat."

Tufail questioned the wisdom of buying one squadron of J-10s.

To be cost effective "at least three to four squadrons would justify the additional wherewithal and maintenance facilities that would be needed," he said.

Over-reliance on US high-technology equipment like fighters worries Pakistani officials, and while Tufail said diversification "be explored fully, with China and Russia as suitable sources," in the case of the fighter, the government may not have another option.

Should a deal occur, however, Tufail foresees no problems with directly or indirectly acquiring Russian equipment such as the J-10's AL-31FN engine.

The J-10B was first revealed to the public in early 2009. Images appearing on Chinese-language military websites indicate the J-10B had a new nose configuration with an infrared search and tracking system and a "new Diverterless Supersonic Intake configured engine air intake," also seen on the Chengdu FC-1 Xiaolong (Fierce Dragon), which is co-produced in Pakistan as the JF-17 Thunder, said Richard Fisher, a senior fellow of Asian military affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center.

At least one prototype J-10B has featured the indigenous Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan engine, but it remains to be seen whether all production J-10Bs will feature the WS-10A or the Russian Saturn AL-31F turbofan," Fisher said.

"I think the JF-17 arrangement has been a workable one so far, and future weapon systems with core Russian and Chinese components can be acquired by the Pakistan Air Force on a similar basis, without difficulty," Tufail said.

Russia allowed China to supply Pakistan the JF-17s Klimov RD-93 engine despite Indian opposition, and prospects have since improved.

"The thawing of Pak-Russo relations over the past few years is certainly a welcome development, and should help override Indian objections to any military cooperation between Pakistan and Russia," Tufail said.

Technological advances may also scrap the J-10 deal.

Tufail believes the air force may be turning to the stealthy Chengdu J-20 though this is not presently "anything beyond a mere statement of intent."

"It is a futuristic aircraft, not yet fully operational, and its capabilities are hardly known, so reading too much into this may be rather premature," Tufail said.

The J-10B would offer Pakistan some advanced fourth generation capabilities.

"The canted nose cone immediately led to speculation that the J-10B also featured a new fixed antennae phased array radar and this was confirmed in 2011," Fisher said. "There remains some speculation that this radar may be a 'passive' versus an 'active' electronically scanned array [AESA], but the key point is that the J-10B is clearly a 4+ generation fighter that also included upgraded cockpit systems and electronic warfare systems."

But if Pakistan chooses not to become the first customer for an export configured J-10B, at $50-60 million per aircraft it will become attractive to countries like Venezuela, Argentina, Peru, Malaysia and Indonesia, who are looking for an affordable multi-role fighter, Fisher said.
Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain | Defense News | defensenews.com
 

Decklander

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
2,654
Likes
4,111
PAF had big dreams of inducting 250 JF-17s and our Pak frnds on this forum wanted us to believe that a stealth version of JF-17 is under development.
The truth is that JF-17 airframe supply might stop at just about 75 as Pak does not have money to pay for more. Now this is a situation that they do not have money to buy peanuts and they are negotiating for cake.
 

ladder

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,255
Likes
12,207
Country flag
Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable,
Still dreaming that Arab countries would finance them.
To be seen with begging bowl out is their national identity.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,876
Likes
48,557
Country flag
When this deal was first signed pakistan claimed each plane would cost 7 million completed,
Most modern warplane radars alone cost 4-7 million depending on the plane. How much
Warplane would 7 million buy?
 

drkrn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,455
Likes
902
PAF had big dreams of inducting 250 JF-17s and our Pak frnds on this forum wanted us to believe that a stealth version of JF-17 is under development.
The truth is that JF-17 airframe supply might stop at just about 75 as Pak does not have money to pay for more. Now this is a situation that they do not have money to buy peanuts and they are negotiating for cake.
where did you get this number from?
 

Abhijeet Dey

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
1,727
Likes
2,443
Country flag
I thought China was going to export J-31 stealth fighter to Pakistan.:rolleyes:
 

Vishwarupa

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
2,438
Likes
3,600
Country flag
bro, no one feeds a dog for nothing. The free oil from Kuwait and Saudia has dried up long back. That is why they are selling themselves to china. The dollars from WOT & ISAF are also drying up.
Last resort for them is prostitution (which they are good at). Let us see how they will use this for their survival.
 

drkrn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
2,455
Likes
902
the original deal was for 150+100 JF-17s.
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

PAF wanted to replace all its fleet of F-7s, Q-5s and old Mirages with this aircraft.
few months back i hsaw that pak cut down jf-17 aircrafts to 225(dont remember it much)
now you said that they will stop at 75.thats what i asked.

stopping at 75 doesn't make this project economical to both pak and china.
 

Decklander

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
2,654
Likes
4,111
Last resort for them is prostitution (which they are good at). Let us see how they will use this for their survival.
they are already doing it, first they sold their motherland to USA and now they are selling it to China. Infact they have allowed their motherland to be used as a keep by chinese.
 

Decklander

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
2,654
Likes
4,111
few months back i hsaw that pak cut down jf-17 aircrafts to 225(dont remember it much)
now you said that they will stop at 75.thats what i asked.

stopping at 75 doesn't make this project economical to both pak and china.
The whole deal was to be financed by China thru soft loans but PAF was to make small upfront payments which they cud not due to financial problems so the deal fell apart. Chinese not fools like saudis or US who will give out anything for free even to an all whether frnd/whore like pakistan.
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
The whole deal was to be financed by China thru soft loans but PAF was to make small upfront payments which they cud not due to financial problems so the deal fell apart. Chinese not fools like saudis or US who will give out anything for free even to an all whether frnd/whore like pakistan.
I think Chinese are; after helping Pakistan with nukes and literally controlling their nuclear doctrine it has become imperative/ a monkey trap for China to help and keep Pakistan viable in any case.

All these excuses of having no funds etc. could be a deliberate move of PAF because they might have been looking for western platforms for that class of fighter aircraft than going for that junk Chinese jet of no use for a air force who is been operating F-16s. Pakistan's eternal love for western weapons and western countries is bigger than anything, even China, regardless of what they rant against them. One must see faces full of charm their journalists and politicians display when any western country supports them; the same people who where abusing them day before.
 

Decklander

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2012
Messages
2,654
Likes
4,111
I think Chinese are; after helping Pakistan with nukes and literally controlling their nuclear doctrine it has become imperative/ a monkey trap for China to help and keep Pakistan viable in any case.

All these excuses of having no funds etc. could be a deliberate move of PAF because they might have been looking for western platforms for that class of fighter aircraft than going for that junk Chinese jet of no use for a air force who is been operating F-16s. Pakistan's eternal love for western weapons and western countries is bigger than anything, even China, regardless of what they rant against them. One must see faces full of charm their journalists and politicians display when any western country supports them; the same people who where abusing them day before.
In 2008, the US had kept the funds blocked for new F-16s which were paid by Pak. So Pak went for more JF-17s, but US pulled a fast one on China by releasing F-16s in 2010 which resulted in lack of funds for PAF to buy JF-17. Also US allowed them to upgrade old F-16s with help from Turkey. So the net result is that PAF now has about 80 F-16s, 50 JF-17s and rest all junk.
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
In 2008, the US had kept the funds blocked for new F-16s which were paid by Pak. So Pak went for more JF-17s, but US pulled a fast one on China by releasing F-16s in 2010 which resulted in lack of funds for PAF to buy JF-17. Also US allowed them to upgrade old F-16s with help from Turkey. So the net result is that PAF now has about 80 F-16s, 50 JF-17s and rest all junk.
Point One: The fighter plane in discussion is of different class. Purchase of JF-17 by PAF still can be justified even with technological compromises it has/may have, but for higher class of jets, If I am a policy maker with PAF I would be a fussy shopper.

Point two: I am just giving this discussion another twist; one can comprehend form what I have posted :wink:

Regards
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top