Pakistan cruise missiles pose key challenge to India

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by sayareakd, May 11, 2013.

  1. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    With Pakistan arming itself with nuclear capable cruise missiles with stealth capabilities, a new dimension has been added to India’s maritime security challenges, says leading Indian defence expert retired Commodore C. Uday Bhaskar.

    “Taking a leaf from China, Pakistan seems to be investing in cruise missiles,” he said, referring to Pakistan’s indigenously developed cruise missile Babur, which can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads.

    “This has lowered the index of stability in the region,” Bhaskar said at an Asia-Pacific security seminar on India’s Maritime Security Challenges at the East-West Centre Tuesday.

    But in dealing with issues ranging from low intensity conflict and piracy to major-power strategic contests, India’s key challenges were resource constraints, ship building capabilities, maritime infrastructure and the changing geo-political environment, he said.

    The rapidly changing strategic environment in South Asia and emergence of an “extended global common” posed another challenge, said Bhaskar, currently a distinguished fellow with the Society for Policy Studies and a visiting fellow at the National Maritime Foundation in New Delhi.

    Over the next decade, the US, China and India will form a critical strategic triangle and their individual relationships with the ASEAN, Iran and Pakistan will have significant regional and global implications, he said.

    Given its distinctive geography and the recent shift of global maritime focus from the Atlantic-Pacific combine to the Indo-Pacific continuum, the importance of the Indian Ocean Region in India’s national security calculus has greatly increased in the post-Cold War/post 9-11 era, Bhaskar said.

    Yet the Indian Navy mandated to address this wide spectrum security domain received about a sixth of an overall defence budget of less than $40 billion in fiscal 2012-13, he said.

    He noted that within the Indian military matrix, the navy was referred to as the “Cinderella service”.

    India’s ship building capabilities too were “not really flattering”, blighted as they were by time and cost overruns, Bhaskar said.

    He listed the ability to build credibly fight capable ships as another key challenge.

    The country’s maritime infrastructure too was “less than rudimentary”, he said. He added that that in terms of ports, India’s top port Mumbai was listed at the 30th spot in the world.

    However, Bhaskar said there was a growing awareness at the national level that over the next two decades India’s future aspirations and anxieties will be increasingly shaped by its ability to address the challenges and opportunities of the maritime domain.

    ‘Pakistan cruise missiles pose key challenge to India’ | idrw.org
     
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  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    We have all the tech to develop cruise missile defence as per this pic

    [​IMG]

    Aerostat radar (Indian made and Israeli made are already available)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    AWACs (Israeli is available and DRDO is under development)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    MFCR
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In addition to that we need space base assets to give info about launch of cruise missile from land from aircraft.
     
  4. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    With Pakistan arming itself with nuclear capable cruise missiles with stealth capabilities, a new dimension has been added to India’s maritime security challenges, says leading Indian defence expert retired Commodore C. Uday Bhaskar.

    “Taking a leaf from China, Pakistan seems to be investing in cruise missiles,” he said, referring to Pakistan’s indigenously developed cruise missile Babur, which can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads.


    “This has lowered the index of stability in the region,” Bhaskar said at an Asia-Pacific security seminar on India’s Maritime Security Challenges at the East-West Centre Tuesday.

    But in dealing with issues ranging from low intensity conflict and piracy to major-power strategic contests, India’s key challenges were resource constraints, ship building capabilities, maritime infrastructure and the changing geo-political environment, he said.

    The rapidly changing strategic environment in South Asia and emergence of an “extended global common” posed another challenge, said Bhaskar, currently a distinguished fellow with the Society for Policy Studies and a visiting fellow at the National Maritime Foundation in New Delhi.

    Over the next decade, the US, China and India will form a critical strategic triangle and their individual relationships with the ASEAN, Iran and Pakistan will have significant regional and global implications, he said.

    Given its distinctive geography and the recent shift of global maritime focus from the Atlantic-Pacific combine to the Indo-Pacific continuum, the importance of the Indian Ocean Region in India’s national security calculus has greatly increased in the post-Cold War/post 9-11 era, Bhaskar said.

    Yet the Indian Navy mandated to address this wide spectrum security domain received about a sixth of an overall defence budget of less than $40 billion in fiscal 2012-13, he said.

    He noted that within the Indian military matrix, the navy was referred to as the “Cinderella service”.

    India’s ship building capabilities too were “not really flattering”, blighted as they were by time and cost overruns, Bhaskar said.

    He listed the ability to build credibly fight capable ships as another key challenge.

    The country’s maritime infrastructure too was “less than rudimentary”, he said. He added that that in terms of ports, India’s top port Mumbai was listed at the 30th spot in the world.

    However, Bhaskar said there was a growing awareness at the national level that over the next two decades India’s future aspirations and anxieties will be increasingly shaped by its ability to address the challenges and opportunities of the maritime domain.

    ‘Pakistan cruise missiles pose key challenge to India’ | idrw.org
     
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    How many cruise missiles does Pakistan have? If India and Pakistan get into a cruise missile race, Pakistan will be bankrupt in to time, and will be in self-collapse mode, without any invasion from outside.

    Needless to say, cruise missiles need to be accurate, and thus they are expensive. If they are not accurate, their only utility would be to carry nuclear warheads. If they are used in that role, Pakistan will resemble the Indus Valley Civilization.
     
  6. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Threads merged.
     
  8. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    well india at the moment doesnt has any credible cruise missile that can be used to target land targets.

    Brahmos is more of an anti ship cruise missile like cm-400akg but with very less only 2.5mach speed.
     
  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, but I would still like to know, how many cruise missiles does Pakistan have, that it plans to use as cruise missiles, and not nuke delivery vehicles.
     
  10. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    types

    Babur and Raa'd for land targets

    C-802/03/harpoon/exocet and cm 400akg for antiship

    numbers?dont know
     
  11. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    India has an open policy of not attacking Pakistan. So what use are these missiles for Pakistan unless Pakistan wants to attack India ?

    Pakistan can not attack Iran, Saudi Arabia or China or USA?

    Why have missiles ??

    India needs those for China as China has never said they will not attack India !
     
  12. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

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    we never said cruise missile are to attack india
     
  13. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Brahmos anti ship is more difficult since the target is always on the move, plus ship sometimes have build in anti cruise missile defence. While land targets are stationary. Brahmos I land version accuracy has been shown in the video, Brahmos II version can taken out target from cluster of buildings or use of reflectors by enemy, Brahmos III has steep dive to be used on the other side of mountains which is on the shadow part to get natural defence against enemy attack, cant show you the pic, but it is so effective that IA has loved it.
     
  14. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    This picture is flawed, The AAD is designed as medium altitude BM interceptor, and not designed for use against a CM. Its speed of Mach 5 makes it impossible to manuevre and target a Cruise missile. Not to mention that CMs tend to have variable flight path to avoid interception by SAMs/AAMs.

    In any case even if it could be used, it would be an overkill.
     
  15. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    But I asserted that Pakistan can not attack any other country with cruise missiles but India.

    Indian cruise missiles are for China not Pakistan.

    India will not attack Pakistani Indians.
     
  16. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    yeah it is overkill, but they said it can be used for Cruise missiles. but it is highly maneuvering missile.

    Even Akash can intercept cruise missiles

    [​IMG]

    Hell even AAA can do the job if you can place the AAA near the target.
     
  17. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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  18. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Just to add to that.

    The Cruise missiles, especially the subsonic ones depend on avoiding detection to successfully target a site. Also the range of a CM is very much dependent on altitude.
    For all the talk of terrain hugging characteristics, a CM only goes into this mode when near the target to achieve max range. From launch to mid course they fly at high altitude.

    So long as they use they target the northern sites, that too launching from their northern zones i.e. In J&K, they have a fairly good possibility of hitting the target, with mountain ranges creating radar blind spots.
    If they attempt to launch missiles from the lower reaches, targetting Delhi/Jaipur/Ambala/Mumbai etc, the LRTR and the AWACS network would pick up the missile right after launch, even if they launch it from Balochistan. Hell the LRTR/Swodrfish would pick up a Iranian missile test inside Iran. As such the IA/IAF ADC would get as much as 30-45 mins window to intercept the CM, and with the LR-SAM or even the BVR AAM will be able to take it down inside Pak airspace.

    Talk about your nukes falling in your own house. This is the reason why CMs are not thought of as a reliable Nuclear delivery system. But then we are talking about Pak, who are the only ones to revive the battlefield nuke concept.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    My allegory of "Indus Valley Civilization" was to suggest an overwhelming Indian nuke retaliation. :)
     
  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    IAF Beefs up Network-Centric Operations, Installs New Radars along Gujarat

    Airfroce has its own network centric operations, it has got data from all the civilian radars in real time, plus its own radar are fused into one giving clear real time picture.
     
    DivineHeretic likes this.
  21. DivineHeretic

    DivineHeretic Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yup, any SAM or even AAM can be used to bring down a CM once it is detected. The biggest challenge is the detection. I think the loudmouth DRDO chief meant that a comprehensive radar network is being developed to detect a CM, with integrated SAMs to bring it down. Even Akash can be used for this role, and even the Sypder system, but they need to be fully integrated into a single enity for seamless defence.


    Cant say if AAD( basically a modified BM, that too a fairly heavy missile) can outmanuevre a CM, especially when it is travelling @ 5-7 times the speed of sound. The S-300 most certainly can, but neither are economic enough to be used on a CM.
     

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