Pakistan Considering Russian, French Aircraft To Replace 190 Fighter Planes

[garg_bharat]

@Gessler is just a [edited] person.

I have told 100 times already the basic fact that the information used for making a decision on MMRCA IS NOT PUBLIC.

You cannot question government decisions since you simply do not know.

 

[garg_bharat]

wasn't France helping DRDO with the Kaveri with ToT, and hence they went for Rafale as 4.5 gen. also providing the naval version.

Plus greater combat radius, payload cap and TtW ratio, shorter length take off. But I do not know, if this really adds to the cost of 1 unit of rafale.

Is there a great advantage in making wild claims. Aero engines are the most well guarded industrial secret.
It is more sensitive than missile technology.

 

[garg_bharat]

Technology changes quickly, but the platforms do not. I'd say, we actually make a sound decision in choosing the Rafale, which is good for another 30 years at the least as far as implementation of new technology trends goes.

PEA Incas - GaN upgrade for the AESA radar
TRAGEDAC - Offboard sensor-fusion for passive targeting solutions (Spectra upgrade)
MELBAA - Conformal radar arrays
DEDIRA - a VLO version of Rafale. Achieved through airframe-shaping as well as much-improved Active Cancellation of incoming radar waves

And others that are still in very early planning stages.

Wow! Goddam WIKI warrior. This is how people like you operate.
Did you pass your exams??

 

[Gessler]

Wow! Goddam WIKI warrior. This is how people like you operate.
Did you pass your exams??

Lol, show me which WIKI article mentions the stuff I wrote in that detail? You should just shut the hell up and stop wasting people's time if you have nothing to contribute.

 

[maomao]

Trust me, pakistan will end up with some Chinchin or Xohomi or Jingchung sounding 3rd gen aircraft from China, whom they will rename as AL-Babbar, Al-Abdali, Al-Kasim or something (mind you it will named after a historical rapist of pakistanis)!! paki fanboys will go goo goo gaga over it for a week or so, and then they will start obsessing about converting this piece shyt into a stealth a/c!!

 

[sasum]

Now tell me how kickback and corruption come into the picture in a GOVT-GOVT deal as this current deal is?

What do you mean by govt-to-govt deal. French Govt refused to formally incorporate liability clauses pertaining to timely delivery & performance of Rafael in the contract, leave alone furnishing bank guarantee as is the norm. Our MoD has to directly deal with Dassault officials for all the terms where French Govt. is not a party. Dassault officials are all over here, influencing bureaucrats, Defense Experts, Journos, top brass of IAF and even on SM & bulletin boards. Where does French Govt. Come into all this?

In the Augusta Westland, copter deal, Italian Govt furnished bank guarantee, still bribe amount was included in the invoice. Air Chief Marshal, S.P. Tyagi intervened at every stage and acted more like a representative of Finmeccanica.

this was a selection procefinancial at ALL parties agreed was fair, transparent and credible- even losing bidders.

Selection process involves technical evaluation (easier ) and financial justification w.r.t. reference points in tech evaluation (tougher). Here, in the absence of precedence and prevalence of some proprietary technologies in Rafael, whose usefulness is largely unknown under battlefield conditions, the vendor gets an unfair advantage over price negotiations. UUltimately, thereis a limit upto which you can take the vendor at face-value. As for losing bidders being satisfied, how do you know? These days no defense supplier openly challenges in Court for fear of being black-listed. Still Mig & Boeing executives expressed dissatisfaction over selection process.

 

[Bornubus]

@Screambowl


Any source of your claim regarding Kaveri ?

 

[Screambowl]

Is there a great advantage in making wild claims. Aero engines are the most well guarded industrial secret.
It is more sensitive than missile technology.

i am not making claims.. I am asking.

They were not ready to share the crystal blade tech or was that some other reason, as 13 billions were already spent and by 2012 it would have not been installed, so it was scrapped.

Then I am not sure, what happened with prat & whitn

 

[Screambowl]

Is India building any high altitude test facility?

 

[Tactical Frog]

Generated by Sipri :

Data from Sipri shows that if France has still been supplying weapons to Pakistan from 1998 til now numbers are shrinking after 2008 . Can' t help seeing a connection with MMRCA !
Seriously, what is Pakistan on the geopolitical map compared with India ? India sending probes on Mars .. it is the only win-win partnership for France.

 

[Rowdy]

First of all I cannot understand why Pakistan has to figure in OUR Procurement debate. We are well past that phase ... Chinese Capabilities I can understand.

Now I like the Rafael or is it Rafale . Good compact plane that our boys like. Good to fill the gap between MKI & LCA.

Now on paki needs I can guarantee they will get 36 EFT financed by Saudi. Brits love pakistan and so do 'Muricans and germans.

 

[Screambowl]

First of all I cannot understand why Pakistan has to figure in OUR Procurement debate. We are well past that phase ... Chinese Capabilities I can understand.

Now I like the Rafael or is it Rafale . Good compact plane that our boys like. Good to fill the gap between MKI & LCA.

Now on paki needs I can guarantee they will get 36 EFT financed by Saudi. Brits love pakistan and so do 'Muricans and germans.

they mostly go for second hand maal .. may be they will get it directly from what arabis are using. Because pakis don't like delays.

 

[Rowdy]

they mostly go for second hand maal .. may be they will get it directly from what arabis are using. Because pakis don't like delays.

I disagree .... I think this new wahhabi army by Saudi will rope in pakistan (at substantial payment I may add) and pakis will deploy Junk Fighter - Blunder for the air wing of the army while using the EFT2000 for anti-India purposes. Again britshits will have no moral qualms selling to pakis (they betrayed US too by saying Taiwan is not a "country") and Germany doesn't care and hates hindus anyway.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Generated by Sipri :

Data from Sipri shows that if France has still been supplying weapons to Pakistan from 1998 til now numbers are shrinking after 2008 . Can' t help seeing a connection with MMRCA !
Seriously, what is Pakistan on the geopolitical map compared with India ? India sending probes on Mars .. it is the only win-win partnership for France.

Big numbers in the Sipri Data are associated with the entry in service of the three Agosta class subs. Can' t track anything else significant.

 

[Rowdy]

Big numbers in the Sipri Data are associated with the entry in service of the three Agosta class subs. Can' t track anything else significant.

Relax ... the Rafael/Rafael will be bought. All that remains is the price and how much France can help us in our own Industry. FanBoi and uber-nationalists aside(They just want 100% made in India for 100% items, and lose track of pragmatism.)

France is one of the few true partners of India and probably the only one on that continent. It won't sell to Pak and if it did well I'd be surprised.

 

[garg_bharat]

Relax ... the Rafael/Rafael will be bought. All that remains is the price and how much France can help us in our own Industry. FanBoi and uber-nationalists aside(They just want 100% made in India for 100% items, and lose track of pragmatism.)

France is one of the few true partners of India and probably the only one on that continent. It won't sell to Pak and if it did well I'd be surprised.

Oh really! I do not think so.
France represents very high risk in future. Defence cooperation in the past is not a pointer to the future.

Most programs with France are struggling, specially where collaboration on tech is involved.

 

[garg_bharat]

I understand why France or any other country would be resistant to give tech to India.
Defence is an area where industrial secrets are jealously guarded.

However despite what posters say, India will always suffer from a mismatch between financial resources and needs. The population is big and land resources are small. People need to be given jobs as well. Defence is a big expenditure, and this money cannot be sent overseas.

The question is not jingoism or "uber-nationalists". It is realism. India has a large industrial base and scientific base is growing by the day.

Of course 2nd class pass posters of this forum do not know this. They can only read fancy articles on the Net and get influenced.

 

[Screambowl]

I understand why France or any other country would be resistant to give tech to India.
Defence is an area where industrial secrets are jealously guarded.

However despite what posters say, India will always suffer from a mismatch between financial resources and needs. The population is big and land resources are small. People need to be given jobs as well. Defence is a big expenditure, and this money cannot be sent overseas.

The question is not jingoism or "uber-nationalists". It is realism. India has a large industrial base and scientific base is growing by the day.

Of course 2nd class pass posters of this forum do not know this. They can only read fancy articles on the Net and get influenced.

Tactics of industrial espionage and using money to brain drain minds and work for India. Thats how it is done. But India does not have money to lure professionals. Nor they like the work environment in India.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

It's you people who are becoming American puppy now a days

No being a puppy is your exclusive right. You are such a pet puppy who allow their country to be bombed by your masters.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Well we would go for at third 4.5th Generation platform before going for 5th Generation.

Which are other 2? JF 17 and F 16?