Pakistan: China wont let India gain entry inton NSG

[Kshatriya87]

Sartaj seeks Austria, Turkey’s help for NSG bid

ISLAMABAD: Adviser to Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz on Tuesday telephoned Foreign Ministers of Austria and Turkey to seediplomatic support for Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) membership.

Sartaj Aziz, made telephone calls to Austria’s Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz and his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu.

The Adviser underscored Pakistan’s credentials for NSG membership and emphasised the importance of non-discriminatory approach on NSG expansion to non-NPT states.

The Adviser thanked the Turkish Foreign Minister H.E. Mevlut Cavusoglu for the principled position adopted by Turkey at the Vienna meeting that the membership applications of both India and Pakistan be considered together.

@Blackwater Apparently, phone diplomacy is the new HIP thing in pakistan as they don't have enough money to actually travel to these countries even in economy class.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

LOL...some idiot enjoy Shouting slogans and became some kind of laughing stock of this forum...it's a pity for some Indian rich family's education...

but...more deals needed and more price could be paid...

From when CCPians started jumping over other's stances?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Eye on NSG: India hopeful of winning over Turkey, South Africa

 

[harsh]

Don't drag religion into this. It's all politics and nothing else.

You can say this matter is not relatedto rreligion.
But the typical mentality of islam is go backwards. They find jannat in isis barbaric deeds. They swear to kill every non islamic man and rape non islamic woman.
and they want nuclear technology just for war not for electricity.
That is typical islamic rant they don't want to grow up and also want to kill who is working for it

 

[roma]

India and Pakistan are adversaries and have a history of mistrust. Where ever India gets first, she will try to block our entry hence it's important for both China and Pakistan to oppose India. Again, religion has nothing to do with it.

If, as you have admitted , it is not about religion , then that is an added reason as to why Pakistan should seriously consider giving up its costly preoccupation with opposing india on almost every matter

and believe me you'll save lots of money which should be going to those who really deserve and need it and that might apply to india too especially if we can get china to also go along

and regarding , NSG, that indeed seems to be happening ....china is making a number of sounds which are quite reconciliatory towards india's entry

we may not make it this time around but on the next try i think Modi would have had enough to have gotten china to go along with us

so why not you too pakistan ? it's better for both of us , the region and perhaps even beyond ..

@PrashantAzazel
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[Neo]

If, as you have admitted , it is not about religion , then that is an added reason as to why Pakistan should seriously consider giving up its costly preoccupation with opposing india on almost every matter

and believe me you'll save lots of money which should be going to those who really deserve and need it and that might apply to india too especially if we can get china to also go along

and regarding , NSG, that indeed seems to be happening ....china is making a number of sounds which are quite reconciliatory towards india's entry

we may not make it this time around but on the next try i think Modi would have had enough to have gotten china to go along with us

so why not you too pakistan ? it's better for both of us , the region and perhaps even beyond ..

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
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@cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
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Madam ji, a pure hypothetical question. What if Pakistan somehow was given a civil nuclear deal and a possibility to join NSG before India. Would you be giving the same lecture?

The question is pure hypothetical so please respond.

 

[smestarz]

Not many countries have the confidence to get Pakistan into NSG also there is question of credit where pakistan has none. For Pakistan there would be lot of countries that might not support it except maybe China. USA presently might prefer to sit on the fence as that might push Pakistan to comply. Pakistan does not have much to offer also the security of its nuclear arsenal is questionable.

China would oppose india to start but then China's oppsition might not have many takers India on other hand is big market and also big producer which might benefit many countries purely in terms of business and credit Rating is better. For Chinese products there is no bigger and "red tape free" market like india

If, as you have admitted , it is not about religion , then that is an added reason as to why Pakistan should seriously consider giving up its costly preoccupation with opposing india on almost every matter

and believe me you'll save lots of money which should be going to those who really deserve and need it and that might apply to india too especially if we can get china to also go along

and regarding , NSG, that indeed seems to be happening ....china is making a number of sounds which are quite reconciliatory towards india's entry

we may not make it this time around but on the next try i think Modi would have had enough to have gotten china to go along with us

so why not you too pakistan ? it's better for both of us , the region and perhaps even beyond ..

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
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[Indx TechStyle]

Madam ji, a pure hypothetical question. What if Pakistan somehow was given a civil nuclear deal and a possibility to join NSG before India. Would you be giving the same lecture?

The question is pure hypothetical so please respond.

Given the diplomacy of Pakistan, it won't possible at first place.
Because only sensible people can make your country under such advantages and they aren't enough stupid to divide the country on the basis of religion and then, pretending as if you are arch rival of the mainland (meanwhile they don't even notice most of the time).

 

[roma]

Madam ji, a pure hypothetical question. What if Pakistan somehow was given a civil nuclear deal and a possibility to join NSG before India. Would you be giving the same lecture?
The question is pure hypothetical so please respond.

HI Bro ,

1. this is the very first moment i am seeing your post so i am responding as soon as possible ok.

2. discussing probabilities is fine , in fact scenario -planing is a major part of this forum being a major part of defence planning ...but when we get into the absurd, and preposterous ..... well it's like asking what if India were more powerful than China ? not to put my own people down but frankly at this point in time it is an equally preposterous idea ,..... we have a lot of streamlining of the system to do before we can contemplate such a possibility .....that's all im saying , .... and in saying so im not putting pakistan down either

3. Thirdly it is not a lecture ..... it was an invitation to work together for MUTUAL benefit but if you see it as a lecture then go ahead - to commit economic suicide is a right everyone has as an option on the table - for all time - and if pakistan wasn't to exercise that right , well can we stop them ?

4. So let's harken back to the prophetic statements of Mr ZA Bhutto - yes you CAN achieve your so-called parity with India ( whatever that is supposed to mean ) ........

............ just be prepared, to take the other part of HIS ADVICE equally seriously ....yes indeed, be prepared ....... to eat grass .
regards,
R
ps: same words for ourselves if we had tried some sort of silly notion of military "parity" with China ....so we dont pretend to be china, militarily .

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
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[Neo]

HI Bro ,

1. this is the very first moment i am seeing your post so i am responding as soon as possible ok.

2. discussing probabilities is fine , in fact scenario -planing is a major part of this forum being a major part of defence planning ...but when we get into the absurd, and preposterous ..... well it's like asking what if India were more powerful than China ? not to put my own people down but frankly at this point in time it is an equally preposterous idea ,..... we have a lot of streamlining of the system to do before we can contemplate such a possibility .....that's all im saying , .... and in saying so im not putting pakistan down either

3. Thirdly it is not a lecture ..... it was an invitation to work together for MUTUAL benefit but if you see it as a lecture then go ahead - to commit economic suicide is a right everyone has as an option on the table - for all time - and if pakistan wasn't to exercise that right , well can we stop them ?

4. So let's harken back to the prophetic statements of Mr ZA Bhutto - yes you CAN achieve your so-called parity with India ( whatever that is supposed to mean ) ........

............ just be prepared, to take the other part of HIS ADVICE equally seriously ....yes indeed, be prepared ....... to eat grass .
regards,
R
ps: same words for ourselves if we had tried some sort of silly notion of military "parity" with China ....so we dont pretend to be china, militarily .

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
@aditya g @asianobserve @Bahamut @BATTLE FIELD @bose @Bornubus @brational @blueblood @Blackwater @Blood+ @bhai-117 @Bangalorean @bengalraider @Bengal_Tiger @biswas_k11
@cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
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There's nothing absurd about my post. One can use illustrations, hand gestures or hypothesis to make a point. And the point is when ever two adversaries are tied together in a strategic gain, who ever get a there first will naturally block the other for gaining the same privileges and the other will complain.

India too has a bad habit of complaining. Be it weapons, aid or membership of an forum, India has opposed it. Why do you get hurt when we endorse the courtesy?

India brought nukes to South Asia hence we had to built it. Prior to the Indo-US nuclear agreement, we both were nuclear pariahs and criticised the nuclear clubs and policies of the west together. You got the agreement, we are still trying and we will get it. Do you blame us for not giving up?

Our drive to join NSG is as old as yours, there's nothing like 'me too syndrome' like many DFI'ns are callimg it.

Pakiatan like any country has the right to follow and join any regime if it suits our interest. The quest doesn't depend on what India does or does not.

 

[Bornubus]

@roma

India won't get NSG membership, at least this time around at Seoul.

But we appreciate the US and other members who supported our Bid.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

@roma

India won't get NSG membership, at least this time around at Seoul.

But we appreciate the US and other members who supported our Bid.

It was not Pakistan alone half dozen nations blocked it. Pakistan is not in NSG . This is all Chinese actions



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bose]

Madam ji, a pure hypothetical question. What if Pakistan somehow was given a civil nuclear deal and a possibility to join NSG before India. Would you be giving the same lecture?

The question is pure hypothetical so please respond.

Bhai Jaan,

The track record of Pakistani nuclear proliferation v/s Indian record is unmatched...

The story ends their...

 

[bose]

@roma

My assessment is India will have to wait for some more time to join NSG, it will not harm India's business to build nuclear power plant or getting uranium in any way...

What it will happen is that China will now be more and more exposed to the world that it does not like India's economic growth, prosperity and as a competitor in the making... China till now is hiding behind façade of NSG rules [non NPT signatories, when there are instances where non NPT countries are within NSG] and China are only country worried of India's inclusion [ off course along with its lackey Pakistan]...

China now finds herself between its own national interests on one hand and supporting its friend Pakistan on the other hand... China was exposed with its veto very recently by supporting terrorists from within Pakistan that was directed towards India.

The more China stand with terrorist supporting Pakistanis the more it will be exposed as the one against Indian interest and economic growth... I will not be surprised to see China been kept out of the 1 trillion infrastructure development business in India in next 5 years...

It will also make easy for India for a more direct alignment with USA, JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, SOUTH KOREA, VIETNAM in the South China Sea more often than you see now...

All those friends supporting India's interest must get a pie of Indian economic development ... LSA agreement with USA is very vital step forward ...

What Modi is doing is to systematically expose Chinese hypocrisy to the world ...

 

[roma]

There's nothing absurd about my post. One can use illustrations, hand gestures or hypothesis to make a point. And the point is when ever two adversaries are tied together in a strategic gain, who ever get a there first will naturally block the other for gaining the same privileges and the other will complain.

India too has a bad habit of complaining. Be it weapons, aid or membership of an forum, India has opposed it. Why do you get hurt when we endorse the courtesy?

India brought nukes to South Asia hence we had to built it. Prior to the Indo-US nuclear agreement, we both were nuclear pariahs and criticised the nuclear clubs and policies of the west together. You got the agreement, we are still trying and we will get it. Do you blame us for not giving up?

Our drive to join NSG is as old as yours, there's nothing like 'me too syndrome' like many DFI'ns are callimg it.

Pakiatan like any country has the right to follow and join any regime if it suits our interest. The quest doesn't depend on what India does or does not.

Hello Neo;

I think i would say a small " sorry" for considering your point to have been "absurd" .....that was a wee bit "over" , so i acknowledge that ..... but try to accept that i did attempt to take it in the context that pakistan is not india , just as india is not china in terms of acceptance and image in the world community when it comes to being a part of the global bodies of governance especially in global groupings like NSG and others .which have military implications .

when you say that your need to have nukes was because of India , then aren't you quite conveniently forgetting that India had to have nukes only because china brought them into the region ? aren't you forgetting that china did their first test only 2 years after a war with india ? and aren't you also conveniently forgetting that after china's easy win over india in '62 pakistan was encouraged to try to do likewise in 1965 ?

so India's need for nukes was because of the obvious china-pak alliance that was fast building up the region and one of them already had nukes , so india was forced to have the same .

Further point is that if not for the obvious military coordination between china and pakistan , which the whole world knows about, india may have actually taken more seriously Gandhi's idea to disband the army !

now that is a broader picture of the actual situation

to attempt to discuss india - pak relations without including the influence of china , is to try to build a picture based on a particularly partisan point of view, a one-sided point of view ,and cannot represent a fair picture of the truth .of the situation

btw i accept the other points you made in the post quoted above regardless of what ( as you wrote ) "other DFI's are saying" , ( as i didnt get a chance to read the whole thread )

Best Regards,
R

@PrashantAzazel
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[ezsasa]

Update :

Sushma Swaraj said today that China is not against india's entry into NSG, resistance is on procedural issues. This statement is interesting because foreign secretary Jaishankar is in China today on a unscheduled visit.

In the same press conference, she said india has no objection to Pakistan's entry because india is still not part of NSG.

Either way we will know by Wednesday.

Best outcome should be same as 2008 waiver, China abstained from voting.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

China is not opposed to India's NSG bid, we will convince Beijing: Sushma Swaraj

NEW DELHI: China is not opposed to India's entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj has clarified. She said Beijing is only focussed on criteria procedure to India's membership to the elite nuclear club.

Swaraj's comments came at a news conference to outline the foreign policy achievements of the Narendra Modi government over the past two years, as well as about recent developments. Her comments also came just days after External Affairs Secretary S Jaishankar visited Beijing to discuss India's NSG bid.

China has been seen globally as the sole impediment to India's entry into the global nuclear trade regime. While some sources have attributed China's decision to put the brakes on India's bid to concerns over the strategic balance in its own neighbourhood, other have said Beijing is insisting on similar waivers to be extended to its all-weather ally, Pakistan.

Swaraj also fielded questions on the India's attempt to join the NSG in relation to Pakistan's own bid. "As far as our stand on Pakistan's NSG membership is concerned, India is not opposed to the entry of any nation into the NSG. We would want any application to be considered on its own merits," said Swaraj.

She added that she was hopeful of moving India's membership process forward. "We are hopeful. We will be able to convince China as well. We are in touch with 23 nations on this issue. One or two of them had raised concerns, but I think a general consensus is there," she said.

The Modi government would attempt to ensure that India's NSG membership becomes a reality by the end of this year, the External Affairs Minister stressed. "The NSG membership has assumed importance this year in light of the leadership role that India projected on the global stage at the Paris climate talks," she said.

 

[roma]

Update :

Sushma Swaraj said today that China is not against india's entry into NSG, resistance is on procedural issues. This statement is interesting because foreign secretary Jaishankar is in China today on a unscheduled visit.

In the same press conference, she said india has no objection to Pakistan's entry because india is still not part of NSG.

Either way we will know by Wednesday.

Best outcome should be same as 2008 waiver, China abstained from voting.

i think the philosophy is that India per se will not object to Pakistan's later application ( assuming they do so )

that position of India's does not preclude other nations including the usa from forming their own opinions on the matter , whatever those may be .... but India per se will not stand in the way of pakistan .......

so india is saying it's up to pakistan to make their own case and not try to parasite onto india's coat-tails by beating their usual and pathetic "parity" drum-beat

and that's a jolly smart route of the modi administration to take

So i hope India succeeds this month.....chances are improving every passing hour

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
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[Indx TechStyle]

i think the philosophy is that India per se will not object to Pakistan's later application ( assuming they do so )

that position of India's does not preclude other nations including the usa from forming their own opinions on the matter , whatever those may be .... but India per se will not stand in the way of pakistan .......

so india is saying it's up to pakistan to make their own case and not try to parasite onto india's coat-tails by beating their usual and pathetic "parity" drum-beat

and that's a jolly smart route of the modi administration to take

So i hope India succeeds this month.....chances are improving every passing hour

@PrashantAzazel
@angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @angeldude13 @Abhijat @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10
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@cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy @Cadian @DingDong @dhananjay1 @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @garg_bharat @guru-dutt @Hari Sud @hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @laughingbuddha @mhk99
@MetsaMan @Mark Antony @manutdfan
@maomao @Navneet Kundu @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @parijataka @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy @Razor @Rashna @rock127 @R.parida @shade @sasum @smestarz
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India is offering a piece of nuclear pie to China.
If China takes, and takes steps back from it's stance to block India suddenly, I wanna see face of Sartaj Aziz.

 

[3deffect]

FOREIGN SECRETARY S. JAISHANKAR VISITS BEIJING TO DRUM UP NSG SUPPORT

NEW DELHI: Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar made an unannounced visit to Beijing on June 16-17 to enlist support for India's bid for membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group which is being opposed by China.
Jaishankar's visit came a week ahead of the plenary meeting of the 48-nation atomic trading bloc scheduled to be held in Seoul on June 24 where India's membership is likely to be discussed.
"Yes, I can confirm Foreign Secretary visited Beijing on June 16-17 for bilateral consultations with his Chinese counterpart. All major issues, including India's NSG membership, were discussed," External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Vikas Swarup said today.
China has been strongly opposing India's membership at the premier club arguing that it was not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).
Earlier this week, China's official media said India's NSG membership would "jeopardise" China's national interests besides touching a "raw nerve" in Pakistan. The Chinese Foreign Ministry had said a week back that members of the NSG "remain divided" on the issue of non-NPT countries joining it and called for "full discussions".
India has been reaching out to NSG member countries seeking support for its membership of the bloc whose members are allowed to trade in and export nuclear technology.
The us has backed India and asked various NSG members to support NEW DELHI's bid.
It is understood that a number of countries including Turkey, South Africa, Ireland and New Zealand were not in favour of India's entry into the NSG.
India had managed to secure support of NSG members Switzerland and Mexico during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to these two countries as part of a five-nation tour. Mexico and Switzerland were known to have strong nuclear proliferation concerns and were not in favour of allowing NSG membership to countries which were not signatory to NPT.
The NSG works under the principle of unanimity and even one country's vote against India will scuttle its bid.
India's access to the NSG, a body that regulates the global trade of nuclear technology, is expected to open up the international market for India's domestic nuclear energy program. India has been campaigning for membership of the bloc for last few years and had formally moved its application on May 12.
The NSG had granted an exclusive waiver to India in 2008 to access civil nuclear technology after China reluctantly backed India's case based on the Indo-US nuclear deal.