Pakistan: China wont let India gain entry inton NSG

[ersakthivel]

India already had waiver for the NSG, even if we didnt get the membership, that does not mean that nuclear commerce with member states will be stop, we already had all the pleasures of membership without getting the membership, it is loss to China, as India will be more closer to uncle now, than before.

China is well aware about waivers and that we are not much to gain with membership of NSG, on its part a part from appeasing the Pakistanis, China too didnt gain much from it, on the contrary it has others members seeing the rigid attitude of China and its satellite state Pakistan making negative publicity about India, so that it will not get NSG membership.

Now India will not only be close to Uncle, but it too will be quite vocal against the China and it have some sort of presence in south China sea and arming Vietnam against China.

In the end it is China which has lost most.

Waiver is not equivalent to membership.

All decisions of NSG are by consensus, By being a member India gets a certain diplomatic clout,

Also India will be able to export items for N plants abroad in future if it has full membership, which is the prime reason china wants to ban us from NSG.

 

[ersakthivel]

Joining NPT a must for India’s entry to NSG

The NSG has hitherto not agreed any agenda on the participation of states which have not signed the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). And this plenary has no such item on its agenda either. So, there is no opposing or supporting India's membership. China, for its part, attaches great importance to the issue of how to handle the issue of non-NPT states' participation. Under the Argentina chairmanship, China has worked hard to push comprehensive discussions on the above issue. And so far, three rounds of discussions had been conducted in the format of the Friends of Chair meetings. Despite many differences in the course of discussion, the Chinese side nevertheless believes such discussions are useful and enhance mutual understanding of relevant parties. We, for our part, wish to continue this discussion. And in the meantime, we will also participate in the discussion in a constructive manner.

Implementing NPT is the criteria for india's NSG membership as per the latest news from the special Ambassador appointed to oversee inclusion of india in NSG.

It is not "adherence" as you claim.

In the past nations have joined NSG without signing NPT.

India is the world's leading implementor of NPT by not proliferating,

India got the waiver from NSG on the same qualifying criterion, Implementing NPT, not signing NPT

The whole world knows who is the world's leading prolifearator of N tech, even after being a member of NSG & NPT.

A special Ambassador to oversee india's membership to NSG is already appointed, If there was no discussion on india's inclusion in NSG, WHy this appointment?

 

[no smoking]

Implementing NPT is the criteria for india's NSG membership as per the latest news from the special Ambassador appointed to oversee inclusion of india in NSG.

It is not "adherence" as you claim.

You can go to argue against the rule of NSG.

In the past nations have joined NSG without signing NPT.

Such as......?

India is the world's leading implementor of NPT by not proliferating,

Without signing NPT, India bears no obligation to it.

India got the waiver from NSG on the same qualifying criterion, Implementing NPT, not signing NPT

No, it is the USA got the waiver from NSG allowing she selling the nuclear equipment to India.

The whole world knows who is the world's leading prolifearator of N tech, even after being a member of NSG & NPT.

Well, obviously, the whole world doesn't agree with you.

A special Ambassador to oversee india's membership to NSG is already appointed, If there was no discussion on india's inclusion in NSG, WHy this appointment?

Well, the discussion is always there, simply some countries want to see a better offer from India.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

You can go to argue against the rule of NSG.

Thanks, we're already doing.

Such as......?

France.

Without signing NPT, India bears no obligation to it.

NPT itself has no obligation for India. It limits nuclear power status to 5 countries only.
No problem Buddy, we will sign it, but after getting a wavier for nuke power status. We will get inside UNSC even more easily then.

No, it is the USA got the waiver from NSG allowing she selling the nuclear equipment to India.

Wrong, India got wavier for nuclear bilateral agreement with other countries. India has permission to make it's own, buying equipment from US, Russia or anyone and has bilateral agreements with a number of countries (even NSG members) over supply of nuclear material even after not being a member.

Well, obviously, the whole world doesn't agree with you.

China doesn't represent whole world.
That's why 44 out of 47 supported us for NSG. Now, even Turkey has taken U turn.
65 countries have been giving us unconditional support for permanent seat in UNSC and now we're in MTCR.
That's enough to say about proliferation record.

Well, the discussion is always there, simply some countries want to see a better offer from India.

As China is the leader of these irritants, tell us what do you want (must not be against our interests). We already had offered China a slice in our nuclear program which had received cheers from Chinese members in other forums.


I can send your suggestions to our Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj (really).

 

[salute]

Inside the comment section of some newspapers from our beloved (not honestly) and (not respected at all) terrorist neighbors.
View attachment 9998
National Power is determined at Olympics!
View attachment 9999
Now, a days more loyal to their masters.
View attachment 10000
Bunked from his history classes for sure.
View attachment 10001
Never knew that China is a Democracy.
@J20!
View attachment 10002
For per capita GDP we know, and let telecommunication, internet, innovation, education index etc. go apart otherwise terrorists will suicide (suicide bombing).
Though, they undoubtedly have more homicide, rapes, crimes, black money and terrorists per capita than us.

could pakis provide some official data about their per capita income at various sectors of economy to prove their claims ,
and that data should be from international agencies and not from paki govt ,
at diplomacy pakis are probably at worse than they ever were .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

could pakis provide some official data about their per capita income at various sectors of economy to prove their claims ,
and that data should be from international agencies and not from paki govt ,
at diplomacy pakis are probably at worse than they ever were .

Paki government has no record of 70 million pakistanis (which could add 35% more population of current) but they calculate GDP per capita, Poverty and HDI etc. over counted population. Still, well behind in most aspects.

They boast their poverty ratio (8.3%) is better than Indian (12.3%) but they forget tha they have no capability to even complete a successful census for counting the poor.:biggrin2:
They are still way behind in HDI, GDP per capita, hunger Index etc. and gap is still expanding.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1278149
You can imagine about living standards and system of a country which can't conduct a census, still pakis have no shame calling us poor (though lagging behind themselves even after this fudging).

 

[no smoking]

France.

Well, France was one of the founders of NSG, so, they were already a member even before the rule was written down. Too bad.

NPT itself has no obligation for India. It limits nuclear power status to 5 countries only.
No problem Buddy, we will sign it, but after getting a wavier for nuke power status. We will get inside UNSC even more easily then.

Then, good, you can come back after that.

Wrong, India got wavier for nuclear bilateral agreement with other countries. India has permission to make it's own, buying equipment from US, Russia or anyone and has bilateral agreements with a number of countries (even NSG members) over supply of nuclear material even after not being a member.

Because of Americans.......

China doesn't represent whole world.
That's why 44 out of 47 supported us for NSG. Now, even Turkey has taken U turn.

Then, good, you got only 3 more to go if there is no other way U-turn.

65 countries have been giving us unconditional support for permanent seat in UNSC and now we're in MTCR.
That's enough to say about proliferation record.

SO, by your logic, there are almost 140 countries don't support your permanent seat. That is enough to say how the whole world attitude is.

As China is the leader of these irritants, tell us what do you want (must not be against our interests). We already had offered China a slice in our nuclear program which had received cheers from Chinese members in other forums.

We already told you: sign the NPT. If you don't like the term of NPT, then work hard to make yourselves the sixth nuclear power acknowledged in NPT. Simple as that.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Well, France was one of the founders of NSG, so, they were already a member even before the rule was written down. Too bad.

Still, unable to demean my point.
We all know why NSG formed. So, the rule for even core idea was written much later, it wasn't India's fault.

Then, good, you can come back after that.

No, I won't even see your face after that.

Because of Americans.......

LOL :biggrin2:
US has only one vote out of 47 members you know. Plus they have been against Indian Nuclear Installations most of the time. (That's the reason our media hypes civil nuclear deal as turnover in diplomacy).
India got support from most of the members because of it's own national approach and policies.

Then, good, you got only 3 more to go if there is no other way U-turn.

Now, 2 because Turkey has taken U turn, go on 11th page. We will take care of rest of two also.

SO, by your logic, there are almost 140 countries don't support your permanent seat. That is enough to say how the whole world attitude is.

Logicless person, it gives me complete reference about your sense and knowledge level.

I said,
65 countries give us unconditional support.
This means they will be supporting India without any U turn or further condition.
Or these 65, are permanent members of club of India's supporters.
Among the G4, India has strongest bid for permanent seat in UNSC, be it political, military or strategic aspect.
Other 140, some of them oppose, some of them support or oppose as per their interests, some support conditionally or we will have to bribe them etc. etc..
Moreover, we have support of 65 today, not a decade ago and we will stretch the club further.

We already told you: sign the NPT. If you don't like the term of NPT, then work hard to make yourselves the sixth nuclear power acknowledged in NPT. Simple as that.

Sure, we have been, as I mentioned before.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Australia Backs India's Nuclear Club Membership Bid Ahead of G20 Meeting
Press Trust of India | Updated: Sep 04, 2016 15:19 IST

Australia backed India's bid for NSG membership ahead of the G20 meeting in China.

Hangzhou: Australia reiterated its commitment to India's bid for membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group today, when Australian Prime Minister Malcom Turnbull met with Prime Minister Narendra Modi ahead of the G20 meet in China.

"Prime Minister Turnbull assured that Australia will continue to support India's inclusion in the Nuclear Suppliers Group," External Affairs Ministry spokesperson Vikas Swarup said.

During their meeting, the two leaders also discussed emerging security threats in the region, and promised to deepen bilateral defense and security cooperation.

"The two leaders discussed defense and security cooperation. The issue of terrorism was also discussed during the meeting and Prime Minister Modi said that it is important for all the democratic forces to come together to counter this challenge," Mr Swarup said.

Apparently referring to Pakistan as the source of terror in India's neighbourhood, Prime Minister Modi told Mr Turnbull:
"Even Russia, China, Afghanistan are all facing terrorism threat emanating from our region and it is important for us to identify the suppliers, exporters and financiers of terrorism. Otherwise the world is going to face a huge challenge in coming weeks and months."

The two leaders also discussed ways of improving bilateral trade between the countries.

In the context of trade, both sides felt that much more can be done and if the comprehensive economic cooperation agreements between Australia and India could be speeded up that would certainly provide much more momentum to trade ties.

Prime Minister Modi also sought the support of Mr Turnbull in encouraging the Australian pension funds to invest in India.

"Because of India's clean energy targets, it is important for us to adopt as much clean coal technology as possible, and this is an area in which Australia has proven expertise. Whether it is underground mining or other form of mining, Australian companies can provide us technologies," Mr Modi said.

 

[no smoking]

Still, unable to demean my point.
We all know why NSG formed. So, the rule for even core idea was written much later, it wasn't India's fault.

Nobody is at fault here. The rule was written before you come. So, follow the rule.

No, I won't even see your face after that.

Don't worry, we will waiting inside.

LOL :biggrin2:

US has only one vote out of 47 members you know. Plus they have been against Indian Nuclear Installations most of the time. (That's the reason our media hypes civil nuclear deal as turnover in diplomacy).
India got support from most of the members because of it's own national approach and policies.

Really? Let's see what other says.

http://www.acronym.org.uk/old/archive/dd/dd88/88news04.htm

Quote: Acceding to pressure from the United States and in some cases from their own domestic nuclear manufacturers and suppliers who are eager to profit from the opening of India's potentially large nuclear market.

Looks like no one was supporting you because your own national approach and policies in 2008.

Now, 2 because Turkey has taken U turn, go on 11th page. We will take care of rest of two also.

Yes, Mexico and Switzerland also gave their support just weeks before the vote.....

Logicless person, it gives me complete reference about your sense and knowledge level.

I said,
65 countries give us unconditional support.
This means they will be supporting India without any U turn or further condition.
Or these 65, are permanent members of club of India's supporters.

So, basically you don't or I would say your government or your media don't know.

Among the G4, India has strongest bid for permanent seat in UNSC, be it political, military or strategic aspect.
Other 140, some of them oppose, some of them support or oppose as per their interests, some support conditionally or we will have to bribe them etc. etc..
Moreover, we have support of 65 today, not a decade ago and we will stretch the club further.

Sure, we have been, as I mentioned before.

Yes, that is the spirit.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Nobody is at fault here. The rule was written before you come. So, follow the rule.

We won't and we have been and can further survive violating rules. And we aren't alone, others are there too.
I hope you do know how disciplines PRC itself is.
Don't lecture us over rules unless you follow them.

SCS!

Don't worry, we will waiting inside.

LOL :biggrin2:

Okay, agreed here.

Nobody is at fault here. The rule was written before you come. So, follow the rule.

We won't and we have been and can further survive violating rules. And we aren't alone, others are there too.
I hope you do know how disciplines PRC itself is.
Don't lecture us over rules unless you follow them.

SCS!

Don't worry, we will waiting inside.

LOL :biggrin2:

Okay, agreed here.

Really? Let's see what other says.

http://www.acronym.org.uk/old/archive/dd/dd88/88news04.htm

Quote: Acceding to pressure from the United States and in some cases from their own domestic nuclear manufacturers and suppliers who are eager to profit from the opening of India's potentially large nuclear market.

Looks like no one was supporting you because your own national approach and policies in 2008.

Cuz we opened domestic nuclear market and attempted for NSG.
Yes, it was because of our policy again. Economic card.
And hey, approach has a reason. We have market. If you think that there would be some emotional relationship like pakis ready to die for China, wake up.

Yes, Mexico and Switzerland also gave their support just weeks before the vote.....

And that's your hope again. Hoping that they take U turn again.

So, basically you don't or I would say your government or your media don't know.

It wasn't from our media.

Yes, that is the spirit.

Thanks. LOL

 

[Indx TechStyle]

China says willing to discuss 'possibilities' with India on nuclear group

1/3
India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi is seen next to Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto (not pictured), at Los Pinos presidential residence in Mexico City, Mexico, June 8, 2016.
REUTERS/EDGARD GARRIDO+

2/3
U.S. President Barack Obama talks with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi (R) during a working dinner at the White House with heads of delegations attending the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington March 31, 2016.
REUTERS/KEVIN LAMARQUE+

3/3
Chinese President Xi Jinping shakes hands with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi during the G20 Summit in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province, China September 4, 2016.
REUTERS/DAMIR SAGOLJ+
By Ben Blanchard | BEIJING

China is willing to discuss "possibilities" with India on its bid to become a fully fledged member of the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), a senior Chinese diplomat said on Monday, holding out an olive branch ahead of a summit in India.

India last month said it had held "substantive" talks with China on its attempt to join the NSG, a 48-member grouping of countries that trades in civil nuclear technology.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is campaigning to join the NSG to back a multi-billion-dollar drive to build nuclear power plants in partnership with Russia, the United States and France, and reduce India's reliance on polluting fossil fuels.

Yet his bid to win accession to the group, founded in response to India's first atomic weapons test in 1974, has failed to win over strategic rival China, which enjoys a de facto veto because it operates by consensus.

Speaking to reporters ahead of a visit to India this week by Chinese President Xi Jinping for a summit of the BRICS group of emerging nations, Vice Foreign Minister Li Baodong said new NSG members needed to be agreed upon by all existing members.

"These rules were not set by China," Li said.

"On the issue of joining the NSG, China and India have all along had very good communications, and (China) is willing to have further communications with the Indian side, to increase consensus," he said.

"On this, China is willing to jointly explore all kinds of possibilities with India, but this must accord with the charter of the NSG, and certain rules need to be respected by all sides," Li said, without elaborating.

The nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) recognizes the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council - the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France - as nuclear weapons powers but not others.

India has ruled out signing the NPT but says its track record of non-proliferation should entitle it to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group. India was granted an NSG waiver in 2008 that allows it to engage in nuclear commerce, but deprives it of a vote in the organization's decision making.

Backers of India's NSG bid, who include the United States, hope a deal can be reached despite a setback at the group's annual meeting in Seoul in June.

Xi will also visit Bangladesh and Cambodia on his Asian trip.

The BRICS group of emerging nations include Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.

 

[Mikesingh]

The Chinese argument that India is a non signatory to the NPT and thus not eligible for membership of the NSG is tendentious. France for example was not a signatory to the NPT but got NSG membership anyway.

What does china have to say to this? Why the double standards?

 

[robo]

Nobody is at fault here. The rule was written before you come. So, follow the rule.



Don't worry, we will waiting inside.

LOL :biggrin2:



Really? Let's see what other says.

http://www.acronym.org.uk/old/archive/dd/dd88/88news04.htm

Quote: Acceding to pressure from the United States and in some cases from their own domestic nuclear manufacturers and suppliers who are eager to profit from the opening of India's potentially large nuclear market.

Looks like no one was supporting you because your own national approach and policies in 2008.



Yes, Mexico and Switzerland also gave their support just weeks before the vote.....



So, basically you don't or I would say your government or your media don't know.



Yes, that is the spirit.

The Rule allowing only 5 counties to keep the Nukes?

how fair is the rule?

 

[IndianHawk]

We should stop giving a damn about so called rules. We should stock as much uranium as we can . And we should too start signing nuclear cooperation deals with Vietnam , that ought to remind everyone we too can be as disruptive as the stupid Chinese

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

The Chinese argument that India is a non signatory to the NPT and thus not eligible for membership of the NSG is tendentious. France for example was not a signatory to the NPT but got NSG membership anyway.

What does china have to say to this? Why the double standards?

Leave France.Even Brazil got in without the NPT and signed NPT later.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Brazil may help with NSG entry

 

[curryman]

The Chinese argument that India is a non signatory to the NPT and thus not eligible for membership of the NSG is tendentious. France for example was not a signatory to the NPT but got NSG membership anyway.

What does china have to say to this? Why the double standards?

France is a member of the P-5 and help craft the NPT to keep others out. They are not a good example to follow.

We should stop giving a damn about so called rules. We should stock as much uranium as we can . And we should too start signing nuclear cooperation deals with Vietnam , that ought to remind everyone we too can be as disruptive as the stupid Chinese

Unless NSG members get off their high horse, this is what exactly is going to happen: a nuclear free for all. Let India and Pakistan in. Peaceful exchange of nuclear technology for all.

 

[no smoking]

The Rule allowing only 5 counties to keep the Nukes?

how fair is the rule?

No, the fact is only these 5 have showed the motivation and capability to bend the rules.
US, Russia were dominance power at the time;
UK, France were still major players in world;
China was chasing their nuclear weapon by risking the nuclear attack from US and Soviet.
So far, India hasn't prove that she will bend any rule that not fit her at any cost.

 

[no smoking]

We should stop giving a damn about so called rules. We should stock as much uranium as we can . And we should too start signing nuclear cooperation deals with Vietnam , that ought to remind everyone we too can be as disruptive as the stupid Chinese

Being disruptive as "stupid" Chinese is not an empty word, is India ready to pay the cost.
In order to be disruptive, "stupid" Chinese fought 2 wars with 2 superpower; they were threatened with nuclear retaliation by both superpowers publicly; their economy were dragged to the edge of collapse by 20 years isolation. Does Indian public want go through the same process?

One of major reason, Chinese can win this gamble was there was another war between 2 superpowers--cold war. The super 2 were locked against each other.