Pakistan, Caste and dilemma of quislings

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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This is continuation of my comment on Nehru Gandhi ancestry conspiracy thread.

I checked Delhi Police website. http://delhipolice.nic.in/history1.html
In their history it does mention about Gangadhar Nehru. So this family does have possible links going back to Mughals. This seems to be serious matter.

Let me clarify I wouldn't really mind if the Nehru family's ancestors were Muslims or anything else and they were open about it and clear about their allegiance.

However, even if they were Hindus but secretive about their links with Mughals, that is suspicious and a national security issue. Especially considering the unnatural fondness of mainstream Indian historians appointed by the dynasty have for Mughals and manipulation of history by almost wiping out entire 18th century.

Anyone can have their own opinions and their own version of history, it's a free country. But here the matter concerns national security because it is directly related to the enemy state with whom we are actively engaged in (covert and sometimes overt) war i.e. Pakistan.

It is not just about religion/ Muslims but specifically about certain class/caste group of Muslims:
Pakistan ideology and movement had almost nothing to do with the region that is now Pakistan. It is the (British sponsored) product of upper caste Muslim elites of Muslim dominant ghetto towns like Delhi and nearby areas of UP, Muslim towns in princely states like Bhopal and Hyderabad.
It seems this Allahabadi family related to this class. Whether their ancestor was Muslim or Hindu quisling is immaterial. Their apparent allegiance to and promotion of people of this class and their ideology is the problem.
Please ignore Nehru Gandhi conspiracy part. That is not the topic here. I created this thread to highlight something obvious about Pakistan problem that it seems everyone from mainstream historians, media to independent commentators and bloggers avoid talking, maybe it is conspiracy of silence among both Hindu and Muslim elites, maybe something else. But one thing everyone avoids is the caste/class aspect of creation of Pakistan which can give insights into why Pakistan is such a inherently racist, anti-Indian, criminal mentality state and a continuing mockery of human rights.

So continuing from above comment, this elite Muslim class is remnant of Pan India civil war that reached its peak in 18th century and ended with European Multinational companies taking advantage of the chaos and confusion in the end with ultimate dominance by the British.
What remained of Islamic i.e. Turkic/ Turko-mongol (and sometimes of Islamized Afghan mercinery tribes) rule was some princely states and Muslim ghetto towns that managed to survive by accepting subservience of (with occasional rebellions) of native Indian powers and later the British. The Muslim upper caste elites had social status and wealth so they could remain in their own bubble. Many times they migrate and marry across India in far away towns. Historians often trace origins of Pakistan movement to Sir Syed (highest Indian Muslim caste). They created their own myths and heroes and continued to mentally remain detached from reality and living in imaginary Islamic era. their history narrative also matched British narrative who could legitimize their occupation as legal transfer-of-power from one Mughal empire.

But when British had to leave India this class feared losing their their privileges and social status (ever noticed how Pakistanis all the time keep whining about ghairat and equal status with India?) that they somehow had managed to retain by adjusting to British rule.

But what exactly was so peculiar about these people that they so hated being part of India?

That may be the crux of the problem. This class derives its higher caste status by claiming origins to invaders from outside India, where India is an enemy i.e. from central asian turkic/mongol/Iranian tribes (and sometimes Islamized mercenary Afghan tribes). Sometimes the ancestry may be actually related (though mixed with natives over centuries), often times forged to get higher caste status. Many of Indian upper castes also converted ( e.g. Pakistan army and ruling class has large number of Muslim rajputs and Jaats) and as quislings would try to show off their loyalty and association to their master race. Pakistan is result of insecurities and identity crisis of this class. The ideologues and leaders of Pakistan movement came fro this class. With instructions/ guidance from British masters they forged Pakistan by hiring a lawyer Jinnah (converted Rajput family) from Anglicized elite family in Bombay.
They later found allies in nouveau riche Muslim landlords of North-west India (their land grants received from British) and after partition the Muslim families of British Indian army soldiers hailing from North-west India (who till date continue to be mercenaries of British empire and its successor American empire overtly and covertly) So in a way they are also quislings of bygone British empire along with being quislings of bygone Islamic era.

This is one reason why Pakistan is inherently racist and inherently anti-India.

(Off course here I have ignored inherent instability and violence in Islamic societies by virtue of them being Islamic societies. And larger number of native lower caste Muslims didn't really matter in these big political games. They are like sheep owned and harvested by masters)

In last century, class divisions were used on large scale for creating civil wars and toppling governments. But the conspiracy of silence in Pakistani, Indian and western intellectuals means that such possibility was never explored in case of Pakistan. This has allowed Pakistani state (which is synonymous with the ruling class in feudal Pakistani society) to continue unhindered its process of erasing native history and continue to impose its artificial narrative through brainwashing the generations of masses (slave class).

This is ironical because the class fault-lines in Pakistan's ideology (and among its sympathizers in India) are not just simple 'have' and 'have-nots', but it has an element of 'native' slave class versus master-class of 'outsiders' that does not owe or even pretend allegiance to the land.


@pmaitra @asingh10 @Zarvan @Neo @musalman @rizwan78 etc etc
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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I just got banned from a Pakistani forum for creating a thread titled 'Original Constitution of Pakistan?' with an opinion poll 'should fatwa-e-alamgiri be adopted as Constitution of Pakistan?'
This resulted in 3 months ban in less than 5 minutes. I don't know why it should be considered offensive and deserve ban. Perhaps it hit some nerve of some rich Ahmedi or upper caste Shia moderator ' s nerve.

Anyway this is fatwa e alamgiri

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa-e-Alamgiri
Fatawa-e-Alamgiri (also known as Fatawa-i-Hindiya and Fatawa-i Hindiyya) is a compilation of law created at instance of the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb (who was also known as Alamgir). This compilation is based on Sunni Hanafi Islam's Sharia law, and was the work of many scholars, principally from the Hanafi school.[2]

In order to compile Fatawa-e-Alamgiri, Aurangzeb gathered 500 experts in Islamic jurisprudence (Faqīh), 300 from the South Asia, 100 from Iraq and 100 from the Hejaz (Saudi Arabia). Their work over years, resulted in an Islamic code of law for South Asia, in late Mughal Era. It consists of legal code on personal, family, slaves, war, property, inter-religious relations, transaction, taxation, economic and other law for a range of possible situations and their juristic rulings by the Hanafi jurists of the time.

The Fatawa-e-Alamgiri is notable for several reasons:

It spanned 30 volumes
It served as the basis of law and doctrine imposed by Aurangzeb throughout his empire by early 18th century
It created a legal system that treated people differently based on their social class, economic status and religion[1][3]
 

pmaitra

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Interesting comment.

I think the word "quisling," which translates into "collaborators of foreign invaders" might have to be used loosely here.

The problem during the 18th century was the feudal mindset, that probably still exists in Pakistan today. A common phenomenon all over the world is that when one king confronts a more powerful king, he has two options: fight and be decimated, or become a vassal. Many Indian kings took the easy way out and became vassals. Some chose to fight.

Going far back in the past, Porus, for example, chose to fight. He was a brave warrior, but he lost. He lost because he never got along with his neighbours, and his neighbours became quislings, and collaborated with the Greeks. If we look at the dynamics of that era, there really wasn't the concept of India as we have today. The very first major empire was forged by Chandragupta Maurya, and he didn't do it by braun, but by brains, i.e. by making clever alliances.

Coming back to the 18 century, it probably wasn't particularly different. Taking the easy way out is sometimes the smarter option, than to get into a fight. Good military generals pick their fights wisely. They get into battles only when they are convinced they have a high chance of winning. Otherwise, they go for political settlement.

So, the Pakistani elite, probably are the remnants of those that preferred to be part of the winning team. Many people in those days chose to convert to avoid the Jiziya tax. Many people chose to convert because the Mughals were seen as superior, and it was easy to assume so, given they were the rulers or an Empire, the founder of which, Babur, had demonstrated his military finesse against the Lodhis. Come the British Empire, many such rulers simply because vassals of the British Empire. Even Nepal, albeit not formally part of the British Empire, pledged allegiance to the British, knowing fully well they'd be decimated if they did not.

So, the fundamental point is, we have had many quislings, but they look like quislings today because we see India as the Indian Union of today. Back in the day, it might not always have been like that. So, the term quisling has to be used loosely.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Interesting comment.

I think the word "quisling," which translates into "collaborators of foreign invaders" might have to be used loosely here.

The problem during the 18th century was the feudal mindset, that probably still exists in Pakistan today. A common phenomenon all over the world is that when one king confronts a more powerful king, he has two options: fight and be decimated, or become a vassal. Many Indian kings took the easy way out and became vassals. Some chose to fight.

Going far back in the past, Porus, for example, chose to fight. He was a brave warrior, but he lost. He lost because he never got along with his neighbours, and his neighbours became quislings, and collaborated with the Greeks. If we look at the dynamics of that era, there really wasn't the concept of India as we have today. The very first major empire was forged by Chandragupta Maurya, and he didn't do it by braun, but by brains, i.e. by making clever alliances.

Coming back to the 18 century, it probably wasn't particularly different. Taking the easy way out is sometimes the smarter option, than to get into a fight. Good military generals pick their fights wisely. They get into battles only when they are convinced they have a high chance of winning. Otherwise, they go for political settlement.

So, the Pakistani elite, probably are the remnants of those that preferred to be part of the winning team. Many people in those days chose to convert to avoid the Jiziya tax. Many people chose to convert because the Mughals were seen as superior, and it was easy to assume so, given they were the rulers or an Empire, the founder of which, Babur, had demonstrated his military finesse against the Lodhis. Come the British Empire, many such rulers simply because vassals of the British Empire. Even Nepal, albeit not formally part of the British Empire, pledged allegiance to the British, knowing fully well they'd be decimated if they did not.

So, the fundamental point is, we have had many quislings, but they look like quislings today because we see India as the Indian Union of today. Back in the day, it might not always have been like that. So, the term quisling has to be used loosely.
Yes I used the word Quisling in a loose sense, more close to a 'vassal'. Couldn't find correct word for it. Anyway Quisling word itself is not very old and derived from name of Norwegian general who collaborated with Nazis and has been used with various shades. Here I want to highlight certain under explored psychological phenomena expressed in Pakistan and its apologists (which includes indians and subconsciously even people like you and me at times) related to the Stockholm syndrome.
As they say 'Pakistan is a state of mind' : a zombified state of mind.


http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Quisling

Zombiepedia
Quisling

In Max Brooks's novel World War Z, "quisling" refers to a human that had broken down psychologically due to the presence of zombies (often referred as Z-Shock) and thus begun acting like a zombie. These humans attack other humans mindlessly but are still attacked by actual zombies who can tell the difference. Despite numerous attempts by government-funded doctors, the psychological trauma of a quisling is too far gone for any chance of success of rehabilitation.

The phenomena is reportedly akin to Stockholm Syndrome. The living human subject becomes so fearful of zombies that they try to "appease" them, or "switch sides", in an effort to become the object of their fear. They begin to act like zombies, moving slowly, moaning, attacking and consuming live creatures, even becoming oblivious to the pain from various wounds they might sustain.

Although similar at first, there are noticeable differences between a quisling and a zombie. First, quislings tend to smell worse than zombies, due to the fact that their sweat glands and other "bodily functions" still work, and the high number of bacteria present on their flesh (absent in Solanum-saturated zombies). Quislings also have a tendency to blink when a light is shone in their eyes, whereas zombies don't. Third, any wounds that they have on their bodies will either still be bleeding or heavily staph infected, again because bacteria and other microbes shy away from Solanum-infected flesh. Any animals in the vicinity of a quisling will generally not panic as they would in the presence of a zombie. Finally, when a quisling is in close proximity to a real zombie, the quisling will ignore the zombie, even when being eaten alive, while the zombie will turn, attack and devour the quisling.

Apart from being a further drain on resources, quislings actually helped spread the misinformation and rumors during the Great Panic that led to the deaths of many people. Initially, video taken of zombies attacking quislings was taken as evidence that zombies attack each other just as much as humans, and that the zombies might do half the work of destroying themselves for us. In reality, zombies only try to eat "warm bodies" - preferably humans, occasionally animals, but never zombies. Worse, the initial quislings which were captured and found to be alive led to the false assumption that the zombie plague could be "cured", when in fact they had never been infected in the first place. Finally, it led to false reports that supported the notion that Phalanx was an effective countermeasure against zombie infection, when in reality the accounts were given by those attacked by quislings, at a time when they were virtually unknown and indistinguishable from actual zombies.

Quislings are also like zombies in the fact that they can keep coming after sustaining a gunshot wound. Unlike zombies, quislings do not have a defense against Hydrostatic Shock, and will also die due to infection or blood loss.

Quislings are distinct from Ferals. Ferals are often children, who were abandoned in zombie-controlled areas at a young age but somehow managed to survive, but as little more than animals. Ferals, however, don't try to act like zombies as quislings do, and are obviously alive, running around, and doing what they can to avoid zombies.

The term "Quisling," originating with Norwegian politician Vidkun Quisling who assisted Nazi Germany to conquer his own country, describes traitors and collaborators. It was most commonly used for fascist political parties and military and paramilitary forces in occupied Allied countries which collaborated with Axis occupiers in World War II, as well as for their members and other collaborators

In contemporary usage, "Quisling" is synonymous with "traitor", and particularly applied to politicians who appear to favor the interests of other nations or cultures over their own. In American English, the term is less well known than the equivalent phrase "Benedict Arnold". Also, in Norwegian, when one removes the "q" and the "i" in "quisling" - the result is "(a) usling" which means "someone who is ignoble or iniquitous". This was used more or less humorously during WWII in Norway.
Zombies:


Quislings:

 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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http://www.dawn.com/news/1268839/tw...s-tarbela-dam-shuttering-collapses-in-haripur
Four people including two Chinese engineers and two Pakistani nationals were killed as the shuttering of the Tarbela Dam collapsed in Haripur, police said Sunday.
Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif conveyed his condolences to the families of the Chinese engineers who lost their lives,
...and ensure the well-being and safety of Chinese engineers working on the project.
What about safety of Pakistani nationals? No one cares for miskeens. Not even upper caste Mughlo-Turko-Persio-Arabo-Pakistanis.

Notice the quisling mentality, eventhough Chinese are not traditional masters.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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I just got banned from a Pakistani forum for creating a thread titled 'Original Constitution of Pakistan?' with an opinion poll 'should fatwa-e-alamgiri be adopted as Constitution of Pakistan?'
This resulted in 3 months ban in less than 5 minutes. I don't know why it should be considered offensive and deserve ban. Perhaps it hit some nerve of some rich Ahmedi or upper caste Shia moderator ' s nerve.

Anyway this is fatwa e alamgiri

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa-e-Alamgiri
Apparently there is no English translation of fatawa-e-alamgiri.
Here is Urdu translation if anyone interested:

https://archive.org/details/FatawaAalamgeeriUrduTranslationByShaykhSyedAmeerAlir.a

I wish I could read it.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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One should note that it's not just the Bakis, there are plenty amongst us who sneer at him and call him a chaiwaala with distaste. This is one category of people who'll be happy to join hands with Pakis because of their visceral hatred for the chaiwaala



Bak movement itself was a movement of elites, a group of nawabs, feudals and muslim "intelligentsia" got together to carve out some real estate for itself. They found it loathsome to share political space with the dirty unwashed Haris and Abduls. The very idea of being governed by those whom they always thought of as beneath them, was and remains an anathema to them. Their "rulers" have always been elites- military or civilian, a mango abdul cannot even dare to dream to reach the very top of the social ladder in Bakistan.

Narendra Modi is a manifestation of all their worst fears coming true at the same time and all their prejudices being brought crashing down to earth
- He's from a socio-economically backward background and by sheer hardwork and ingenuity rose to where he is today. He's not the only one, there are many others who have climbed the socio-political ladder while coming from humble backgrounds. This is simply not possible in Bakiland or for that matter any biraather mulk- you need to be born with a silver spoon or you need to shed immeasurable blood to get there.
- He was warmly received by Ummah biraathers in UAE (went to a mosque without skull cap, obtained investment concessions and addressed a huge public gathering and at the side obtained a concession for a new temple- this last one rankles the Bakis the most), Saudi Arabia (Highest civilian award, host of agreements and during his visit to TCS was mobbed by Ayeshas who couldn't stop gushing and taking selfies) and Iran (where he signed the death knell of their Gwadar wet dream) and Afghanistan (Their "man" Ghani tweeting "Welcome to your second home").
- He landed in Lahore, rode a helicopter to Shareef's palace, had NS's family and accompanying guests gushing at his presence and flew out with nary a scratch, leaving Bakis, especially the fauj shell-shocked. All it needed was one sniper, the man/woman would have been an eternal hero in Bakiland. Suddenly the balls went missing. Bakis reacted the only way they could by launching a terror attack on Pathankot and once again proving that Monkey trap is not just a proverb.
- Most importantly, Bakis fully realise that unlike their hukmaraan he's truly committed to taking his country forward.

Consequently, Bakis seethe with impotent rage at this. How dare their prejudices are being pricked one by one? How dare the Ummah that treats them with barely disguised contempt, fawns over this "butcher of Muslims", and how dare a "neech jaat shoodar" (actually saw something akin to this said in one of their "TV shows") show them their rightful place in the gutter?

Bakis loath assertive Indians, especially Hindus, especially "lower caste" Hindus, especially when it's directed at them. That in a nutshell is Baki schizophrenia when it comes to Narendra Modi.
In other words Pakistan was created not as a nation but it was just a piece of land granted as a Jagir

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/british-support-for-pakistan-partition-of-india.74768/


Pakistan is not a typical modern state. It is a Jagirhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagir awarded by colonial imperial power to the Indian Muslim Upper caste elites (mainly from north-central India and elite centres of princely states like Hyderabad Bhopal etc) and Landlords of North-west India.
Jagirdar are free to lord over their awarded lands and slave populace but at times they need to provide their services to the master.

Please note how even today Pakistani political leaders when they want to hold important meetings and negotiations, they prefer doing it in some hotel in London, sometimes they ask British ministsers to mediate in their fights. Sometimes entire political party is run by a 'leader' sitting in london.
Most Pakistani
elite families have second homes in london and even dual citizenship.FFew years back they even sent a British citizen to directly appoint as prime minister. And there are other things like how the 'spiritual leadership' i.e. cult leaders of sects nurtured during British Raj like ahmedis and bohras live in London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagir
A Jagir, also spelled as Jageer (Devanagari: जागीर, Persian: جاگیر, ja- meaning "place", -gir meaning "keeping, holding")[1] was a type of feudal land grant in South Asia bestowed by a monarch to a feudal superior in recognition of his administrative and/or military service. The word jagir is a distorted form of the more formal Sanskrit term jehagiri.[citation needed] The feudal owner/lord of the Jagir were called Jagirdar or Jageerdar and they also used various other titles e.g. Raja, Nawab, Chaudhary, Rao,Zaildar, Thakur, Sardar, Mankari, Bhomichar, etc. Sometimes they called their seat (primary place of residence and rule) Thikana, Garh or Gadh, etc

A jagir was technically a feudal life estate, as the grant lawfully reverted to the monarch upon the feudal superior's death. However, in practice, jagirs became hereditary by primogeniture. The recipient of the jagir (termed a jagirdar) was the de facto ruler of the territory and was able to earn income from tax revenues and had magisterial authority .




Times keep changing. Pakistan too had been evolving and now may appear as a regular nation state like others, but if we remember what Pakistan was originally supposed to be, we can better understand why Pakistanis behave all confused and Schizophrenic.

When we talk of Kings and Nawabs and Princely states, there is hierarchy to that. Most small Rajas and Nawabs, even though practically independent states still in some way owe their
allegiance to a larger Maharajas and Badshahs whom they serve or had once served but now memories faded away.

Note that Jagir of Pakistan always needed a Master to act as an anchor. For long time they found it difficult to see themselves as sovereign independent responsible state.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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That Jahil forum is ISI funded.

And many members there have connection with ISI. So beaware guys.

Most of the stories there are propaganda. It is a data collecting forum. They create pattern out of that, and may be using the ideas posted there by fools from our country. That's why never post there any thing productive except from bashing.

Zarvan ,Arish, blue marlin (he was here too) and the list goes on are some arses who are elite there as you mentioned. There may be few genuine elites but this term elite does not walk along with a Paki.
I remember some time back when they used to test nasr every fortnight, there was a news that India might be looking for iron dome system of israel. So I innocently asked a question in related thread there, 'can it be used against pakistan's nasr missile'. Some Indian members replied and discussed it for couple of pages.

After two days ISPR declared that Pakistan has 'successfully' tested nasr missile again (they had already done a 'successful' test in same week).
But this time the news report specifically mentioned that 'in a reply to a question the spokesperson said that nasr can not be stopped by anti-missile defence shield such as iron dome'!
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Of course this could just be coincidence but I have noted this pattern frequently. Often Pakistani government/ISPR statements and even the discussions they have on television every evening seem to be influenced by discussions in these few internet forums. I suspect some of the people we see in those funny clips of Pakistani evening talk shows might be members of these forums.

The reason for this is not difficult to understand if you know little bit about Pakistan's social stratification.

Pakistan has a thin crust of noisy affluent class made of upper caste Indian migrants, feudal extended families and army officers cartel and for all their internal bickering they are a small closely knit group often distantly related to each other.

Since military is the largest amongst few functioning institutions and largest business group, most of them are in some way related to military and their world revolved around these few defence forums obsessed with India, cpec, kashmir, evil amrica and such things. They are occupied with these things whole day like aunties in saas bahu serials are occupied with kitchen politics.

One peculiar thing about this Jagirdar class is that they are very conscious of what others especially Indians say about them. With little praise they will be flattered and some harsh words from India or America will break their hearts and they will cry rivers curse angrily, or feel embarrassed.

In the Aman ki asha days Aakar Patel and few others had made an interesting observation in their interactions with Pakistanis that Pakistani reporters were fascinated when they saw how indian English language newspapers are sold so cheap (in pakistan they cost something like 5-10 times the price with fewer pages) and have so many pages and so freely criticize government. That is because Indian english language newspapers have huge circulation and they get lot of advertisement from private companies. In Pakistan English language newspapers sell barely few thousand copies and were dependent on government for advertisements.

If you visit Pakistani news portals you will notice there are quite a few analysts with flourishing column section. They are like a part of a large family. They have some foreign degree or fake axact phd (half of them call themselves doctor). They all come from same class. Then there are some blogs and newbie columns full of heavy english words written by some college brats studying in UK or Canada or US. These kids are future from same class being groomed to become future analysts, experts, presstitutes and dalals/lobbyists. They are kids of rich parents who would not become engineers or doctors or army officers but take some fancy degree in humanities in some foreign college. Then these newspapers will get circulated in same closed society. In fact judging by the comments, perhaps their Indian readers outnumber Pakistani readers and sometimes they even try to appease Indians.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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One more thing to note. Indian elite class connects quite well with Pakistani elite class. They both will promptly blame all the things under the sun on lack of education, illiterate masses etc indirectly implying its all fault of the lowly slave class, despite the fact that in feudal societies all important decisions are taken by the small elite class and rest are just sheeple.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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from here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...sacrifices-and-rain.77378/page-5#post-1202892

Practicing any religion, including Islam, can be made illegal and punishable by death at the stroke of the President's pen.

All it takes is someone convincing the supreme court that it's not a religion but a mental illness with risk to public safety.

The constitution allows you to practice a religion, but not to have a disease that threatens public safety.
This is just rhetoric. Not really going to happen. Even I can type anything I want, take printout and sign it with the stroke of the pen. Anyway, why don't you ask president to do it then?

in secular-democratic western nations such as the US and EU member states. ...
West can not be compared to India in this matter. Islamism is not part of their civilization any more like it is in India. For them it is an external factor; a question of foreigners, refugees, migrants. For India it is an internal issue and most Indian Muslims are not foreigners, this is their own country.

Secondly dealing with Islamism is India's responsibility. Not of west, not any other major country/ civilization.
Not even of Muslims.

In fact it can be said Islamism thrives in the world because of India and caste system has had a significant role in that.

Yes, I said world; and mixed caste system, India, Islam all khichdi together. Try to make sense out of that if you can. I will sleep for now.
 
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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Something relevant Fromhere

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-attacked-army-camp-in-j-ks-uri.77403/page-15

Pakis won't mind if we do APS. Their ruling elites are same old feudal who treat their compatriots as slaves.

This is the only cuntry which encourage its citizens to become Jihadis and suicide bombers and die like pigs on LOC. Paki just call them shaheed and say Ina ilahi Rajoon.

This is the reason why there is official budgetary provisions to Madarsah, 100s of crore to world biggest terrorist university and Massod Azhar terror madarsah in Bahawalpur a big cantonment. Now comparable their Punjab with ours.


But if we target their elite and Military targets it would be a biggest pain in their ass.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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you may keep yawning even when they begin following some of their other 'religious' traditions & ways of life as well (like in waste bengal, where they steal cows of their Hindu neighbours to butcher on 'bakr'eid); others yes will keep disagreeing, protesting, hitting back.
Yes they will follow their other religious traditions too and they do follow it whenever they can.

So who's responsibility is it to find the solution for that? ; not evil west, or evil Christians or Chinese or Japanese.

Not 'them', because they are just following the religion they are born into, to their best ability, and it is not their fault. That is only way of life they know. That is why they are not hypocrites. Blaming them is like blaming the innocent host for being a zombie and arrogantly asking 'why dont you behave like normal people? You jahil awam are paying for your past life sins'.
 
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OneGrimPilgrim

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Yes they will follow their other religious traditions too and they do follow it whenever they can.

So who's responsibility is it to find the solution for that? ; not evil west, or evil Christians or Chinese or Japanese.

Not 'them', because they are just following the religion they are born into, to their best ability, and it is not their fault. That is only way of life they know. That is why they are not hypocrites. Blaming them is like blaming the innocent host for being a zombie and arrogantly asking 'why dont you behave like normal people? You jahil awam are paying for your past life sins'.
though you are correct in that, but just because something or some practice(s) that's not compatible with changed dynamics and evolved sensibilities & is steeped in tradition/religion, it doesn't grant an automatic excuse for the status quo to remain. it was a similar simile used by the SC in its observation & judgement on Jallikattu.

while it may not be any other evil ones' 'responsibility' to seek a reform in such things, but the biggest point of contention here is, that in the matters of this 'evil middle-eastern' ideology, even those from its own fold are desisted from seeking reforms ('desist' is a mild term)! a parallel? the 'triple talaq' case in point. should that also be treated with the 'religion' gloves? for a clueless SC is doing exactly that (asking another clueless entity, the Centre, on what to do). this all conundrum is the outcome of a traditionally yielding & dhimmitudal attitude towards a belligerent entity (@Science Singh). you give them a personal law board that routinely asserts its imperviousness from the law of the land with an islamic middle finger, you keep pampering communities like a child you suddenly found decades after losing, you'll obviously get what comes at you. the beating & backlash that the suraiyas & the irfans & the fatehs & the banos & numerous others receive, is no coincidence, but the direct consequence of letting things remain 'as they are' for fear of offending an entity to whom you have historically habituated yourself in doing assalam-aalekum bending over backwards with eyes shut, an entity that has thrived on preaching & practicing 'my way or the hellway', so yes, I agree with you that they wont know any better than what they are wont to do. when there's no space for or propounding of the virtue of introspection in an ideology &/but there's a book that's touted to supposedly tell everything, answer everything, then where's any quarter for self-inspection left? but this should be gladdening that more than a few people have begun rising up to put to practice what Ray sir used to say, "status quo wont go unchallenged", and this should be welcomed. this is the pragmatic way ahead, whether it takes some years or some decades. what (peeved) people from other communities have got to do with this is matter of another discussion, for this already is posted in an unrelated thread I think.
 

Tshering22

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though you are correct in that, but just because something or some practice(s) that's not compatible with changed dynamics and evolved sensibilities & is steeped in tradition/religion, it doesn't grant an automatic excuse for the status quo to remain. it was a similar simile used by the SC in its observation & judgement on Jallikattu.

while it may not be any other evil ones' 'responsibility' to seek a reform in such things, but the biggest point of contention here is, that in the matters of this 'evil middle-eastern' ideology, even those from its own fold are desisted from seeking reforms ('desist' is a mild term)! a parallel? the 'triple talaq' case in point. should that also be treated with the 'religion' gloves? for a clueless SC is doing exactly that (asking another clueless entity, the Centre, on what to do). this all conundrum is the outcome of a traditionally yielding & dhimmitudal attitude towards a belligerent entity (@Science Singh). you give them a personal law board that routinely asserts its imperviousness from the law of the land with an islamic middle finger, you keep pampering communities like a child you suddenly found decades after losing, you'll obviously get what comes at you. the beating & backlash that the suraiyas & the irfans & the fatehs & the banos & numerous others receive, is no coincidence, but the direct consequence of letting things remain 'as they are' for fear of offending an entity to whom you have historically habituated yourself in doing assalam-aalekum bending over backwards with eyes shut, an entity that has thrived on preaching & practicing 'my way or the hellway', so yes, I agree with you that they wont know any better than what they are wont to do. when there's no space for or propounding of the virtue of introspection in an ideology &/but there's a book that's touted to supposedly tell everything, answer everything, then where's any quarter for self-inspection left? but this should be gladdening that more than a few people have begun rising up to put to practice what Ray sir used to say, "status quo wont go unchallenged", and this should be welcomed. this is the pragmatic way ahead, whether it takes some years or some decades. what (peeved) people from other communities have got to do with this is matter of another discussion, for this already is posted in an unrelated thread I think.
The biggest problem is you Hindus despite facing all this do not unite and threaten the law the way other foreign religions do.

I am only telling you what I see as a third person. Your refusal to remind law that we are not in colonial or mughal era is what makes the judges and law authorities so bold.

The other day i was seeing a video where Owaisi and his chamchas were pushing a police officer abusing him and he couldn't do anything.

That, is missing from you Hindus.

And that is what everyone takes for granted.

Show a united middle finger to the Supreme Court, push a few legal staff around and unite together and see hwo they fear you.
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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The biggest problem is you Hindus despite facing all this do not unite and threaten the law the way other foreign religions do.

I am only telling you what I see as a third person. Your refusal to remind law that we are not in colonial or mughal era is what makes the judges and law authorities so bold.

The other day i was seeing a video where Owaisi and his chamchas were pushing a police officer abusing him and he couldn't do anything.

That, is missing from you Hindus.

And that is what everyone takes for granted.

Show a united middle finger to the Supreme Court, push a few legal staff around and unite together and see hwo they fear you.
in my view, the reasons being:

- 'Hinduism' lacks congregational characteristics
- its now like an overly 'open source' system, allowing as many approaches as people, as well as hostile entities or their moles 'uploading' virus & malware-infected 'thoughts/ideologies', thereby infected others in the system.

I think I don't have to write beyond this.

the villagers near Tso Moriri left fishing from the lake when once Dalai Lama visited the place & said that killing animals is a sin. imagine a population of Hindus there instead of Buddhists & what would've been the reaction, esp. of the outside ones to it.
one major reason why the Hindu community alongwith those from the Muslims themselves are giving a backlash on the particular subject I wrote on earlier, is exactly due to that persistent, consistent lopsided reaction I hinted at!
 

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