Pakistan, Caste and dilemma of quislings

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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I lived in a country called Tajikistan for 3 years, where India has been helping them out with many different projects such as opening up factories, and IT centers. We are also reported to have a military base there. To give a background of Tajikistan, it is almost identical to Iran culturally and linguistically. It is a former soviet republic, so they never had any Islamic rule of any sorts for the past hundred years. They were thoroughly secularized by the Russians during soviet rule. As a result, it is called a "liberal" muslim country. One day, I was having a conversation with a Tajik student in one of their libraries, where I was tutoring him English. We both happened to be the same age. The conversation somehow veered towards the concept of evolution. It became quite heated, with me giving him all the scientific evidence and proof of evolution, with his only retort being "my ancestors were not monkeys". I went over and got a biology book, opened up the chapter on evolution, and tried to explain it to him again. His faced turned red, and in one sudden movement, he tore off that page from the book, and threw the book on the floor. He then shouted "non believers like you will not understand. All your science books cannot convince me to go against the Quran. Better you also rid yourself of this belief, or it is the hellfires for you in your afterlife!". This was all in broken English of course.

The librarian, upon hearing the commotion, came up to us and asked what the whole ruckus was all about. She then had a look of absolute shock when she saw the torn up book on the floor. I immediately told her that it was of his doing, and I was about to apologize to her on his behalf. But he suddenly started saying something in Tajik to her, and she stood there silently listening. After a few minutes of his rant, she gestured for him to leave. She looked at me and said " You cannot talk of these subjects here". I was shcoked. I had the impression that this was some progressive liberal country. She and many others later, tell a very similar narrative. The youth are far more religious and radical than their previous generations, and are starting to come under wahhabi infuence.

If this is the state of a so called liberal muslim country, I shudder to think of what these fundamentalist Islamic republics are like.
That is because they did not undergo ritual of conversion ; just counter political model is not enough for de-Islamization, it only temporarily addresses half of the problem. Apart from being a political ideology, Islam is also a religion (even though the ideology is purely political; there is hardly any spiritual aspect, it uses religious rituals and passes on to future generation as religion) and hence part of his identity. Most people need some strong identity and sense of belonging to a group at some point in life, especially the young adults.

To make good soldiers also you need to start training in same age group.

Basic structure of Islam is just a primitive military syllabus Prophet Mohammed used to create a loyal army to serve him and his guidelines on all random matters to his band . It worked for him in his time and it works now. Due credit to him for understanding and exploiting the psychology of this age group.

So in a rigid religion like Islam where the breaking down of this basic structure is not allowed at any cost, any reform or political brainwashing will only have temporary effect and the next generation is always at risk of going back to the roots, especially at the age when one needs identity and sense of belonging to a group. Because religious identity is mostly acquired by birth not chosen like a purely political ideology.

Even if parents are non-religious, the child will be identified with the religious identity his parents were born into.

Religion needs rituals. Rituals have strong effect on people's psyche since the very primitive human beings. So complete de-islamization needs an alternative religious identity and a ritual of religious conversion. (even if a person is non-religious, it is needed for the sake of future generation).

Replace the Tajik with a Pakistani or Indian Muslim in the above example.

India and Indian religions have so far failed in this regard. To great extent this is because of Caste system and exclusionist nature of Brahminical religion. Especially with respect to North-west and East Bengal. To be fair Sikhs didn't get enough time in north-west and half of Punjab is indeed de-Islamized. Nonetheless it is still partial failure and Islamism thrives in world to such large scale because of this (partial) failure.

So if India has failed so far, who will help Pakistan and in general the Muslim masses of the continent of India? Who will offer them redemption?

Can Jesus save them?

8d95aff6b7c20f008c8c5d1fe949eb62.jpg
 

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meh
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India and Indian religions have so far failed in this regard. To great extent this is because of Caste system and exclusionist nature of Brahminical religion. Especially with respect to North-west and East Bengal. To be fair Sikhs didn't get enough time in north-west and half of Punjab is indeed de-Islamized. Nonetheless it is still partial failure and Islamism thrives in world to such large scale because of this (partial) failure.
In the case of Sikhism, I believe it is because picking up arms is considered a last resort and when all other means to address injustice have failed.

Chu kar az hama heelt e dar guzshat,
Halal ast burdan ba shamsheer dast.

"All modes of redressing the wrong having failed,
raising of sword is pious and just."

This is a stark contrast to the Mohammadan ideology of war against the kafir and attempts to convert the whole world to their religion.
 

Mikesingh

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Let's face the reality. Pakistan came into being on religious/ideological lines and its survival as a nation feeds on manufactured Muslim - Hindu 'enemity' - the raison d'être for the birth of the illegitimate state of Pakistan and the two nation theory.

So those who think that this divide can be bridged are barking up the wrong tree. The so called 'Aman ki Asha', CBMs and track two discussions are a complete farce.

The twain shall never meet. Period!
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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from here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/next-army-chief-of-pakistan.77794/


Does anyone know how many of the generals above are/are not Punjabi and Syed caste Mohajirs?
I think despite their differences, under both Sharifs, most top positions in Civil and Military establishments have been filled with Punjabis. @Neo @Zarvan @Zulfiqar Khan
You're very wrong. I don't get where Indians get this notion or information of Pakistan being 'Punjabi dominated'. First off, there is really no such thing as a Punjabi. Punjabi to us is only a language. Punjab itself is VERY diverse:You have Kashmiris to the North, Hill Tribes to the Western North, Pashtuns to the East, Saraikis to the South and a melting pot in the center. There are 25-30 Million Pashtuns (Pathans of Punjab) and 20 Million Saraikis alone in Punjab.

Having said there; there have been:
4 Pashtuns
4 Punjabis (Including 2 Rajputs)
2 Baloch (Including one Hazara Baloch)
2 British
2 Mohajir (Including one Mughal)
1 Sindhi

As army chiefs. However they never really identified themselves by their 'ethnicity' or 'caste'. One major segment of Pakistani education or military indoctrination is letting go of your ethnic identity.
The term Muslaman Rajput is an oxymoron especially from a Paki Muslaman who have zero connection with Rajput heritage and History.

It's only after the British rule when Paki Muslaman claiming fake Rajput Musalman ancestry. Tell me how many Rajput mentioned in history which belong to the land now called Pakistan ?


Did Mughal record mentioned any thing like Muslim Rajputs ?


Try selling this snake oil to Sisodiyas, Dogras, Katoch, Hada, Rathore and Chauhans :lol:
Oh man :lol: so much inferiority complex !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Aslam_Beg


You mean Mughal by this Black Negro who claimed Balras Turk ancestry and that his ancestors migrated from central Asia even though his Mohajir Ass migrated from a piss poor village from East UP ?


______________________________________________

Here is the difference between real Turks and a House ****** claiming the central Asian origin because he is too ashamed of his Hindu ancestry

View attachment 11745









Real Turkish people





View attachment 11746


View attachment 11747
I asked about those in contention for army chief position right now. I suspect under both Sharifs, despite their differences, most top positions in civil as well as military structure are grabbed by Punjabis through nepotism.

.
.
.

As for previous chiefs,
Are you sure about 4 Pashtuns? Just attaching the title 'Khan' does not make one Pashtun. According to Tarek Fatah some of these Khans are Punjabis.

[Anyway Pathan is officially considered upper caste because as they were oldest converts and accompanied Turkic Mughal armies as mercenaries, so they could claim/mistaken as central Asians and in Islamic caste system that automatically means claim to higher caste status. Most people are not aware Pashtuns are a heterogeneous group. There is this elite Punjabised class among Pashtuns who, along with rich upper caste Urdu speaking elites are part of Pakistani oligarchy since beginning.
Most Pashtuns in reality however are poor and even historically majority were lowly mercenary tribes.]

Among Punjabis, yes I have noticed there is a small but strong Rajput Muslim lobby.

2 Mohajirs : I suppose you mean Musharraf (Syed caste, born in Delhi) and some Baig (upper caste born in UP. Baig surname means claim to Turko-mongoloid ancestry).

Who is Baloch? I hope you don't mean Kayani. It is like saying some White Britisher's son born in British Occupied India is ethnic Indian.

2 British: I can understand. Even Jinnah was officially representative of British queen till death.

Who is the Sindhi guy? What is his caste? How long did he serve?

Can you answer on this thread:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/pakistan-caste-and-dilemma-of-quislings.76044/

Pardon my shallow knowledge. I don't have much information on the issue and there is not much available on internet, because of conspiracy of silence on this topic by both Hindu and Muslim upper caste scholars, as well as white imperial historians.
 
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Zulfiqar Khan

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I asked about those in contention for army chief position right now. I suspect under both Sharifs, despite their differences, most top positions in civil as well as military structure are grabbed by Punjabis through nepotism.
There is no 'power struggle' based on caste or ethnicity at all. Like I said; both in the military and at school you are indoctrinated to drop your caste/ethnic identity. Castes are becomming more and more of a taboo especially in urban cities.

In KPK, GB, AJK and Balochistan; the caste system is almost non-existent. In North Punjab people associate themselves with clans called 'baradaris' who don't look down upon other clans. The Caste System only holds relevant influence in South/Rural Punjab and Sindh.

To get top positions here; you have to be popular, noticed and capable. It doesn't matter if your Punjabi, Pashtun or Martian.

As for previous chiefs,
Are you sure about 4 Pashtuns? Just attaching the title 'Khan' does not make one Pashtun. According to Tarek Fatah some of these Khans are Punjabis.
Yes, 2 were born in NWFP and the other 2 were born in Punjab but in Pashtun majority areas. Like I said; Punjab itself is diverse. In West (our west, not punjab overall) Punjab; Pashtuns make up the majority.

Tarek Fatah hasn't been to the country for decades and whatever information he has on Pakistan is his own mere speculations. Although he may sound convincing and thinks he knows what hes talking about, you should refrain from getting your information about Pakistan from Tarek Fatah. What he says is over exaggerated and far from the truth/reality. Tarek Fatah specifically gets his fame just from 'exposing' (not really) Pakistan to gullible media.


Honestly, you can never really understand Pakistan unless you visit it and see for yourself, it'll be very contrasting to what people (like Tarek Fatah) say about it.

[Anyway Pathan is officially considered upper caste because as they were oldest converts and accompanied Turkic Mughal armies as mercenaries, so they could claim/mistaken as central Asians and in Islamic caste system that automatically means claim to higher caste status. Most people are not aware Pashtuns are a heterogeneous group. There is this elite Punjabised class among Pashtuns who, along with rich upper caste Urdu speaking elites are part of Pakistani oligarchy since beginning.
Most Pashtuns in reality however are poor and even historically majority were lowly mercenary tribes.]
Pathan/Pashtun aren't a caste nor are we considered 'upper (superior or anything)'. Especially after the Afghan migrations, our image was severely damaged although it's recovering now. People here are judged by piety or wealth. Pashtuns/Pathans here are slightly below average in terms of wealth although we're respected for being religious and contributing a lot to the military & defence of Pakistan.

Among Punjabis, yes I have noticed there is a small but strong Rajput Muslim lobby.
I wouldn't say small; considering there are around 17 Million Rajputs in Pakistan. Their positions were elevated during the reign of Rajput Samma & Soomra dynasties in which many of them retain to this day; whether it's in the military or politics.

2 Mohajirs : I suppose you mean Musharraf (Syed caste, born in Delhi) and some Baig (upper caste born in UP. Baig surname means claim to Turko-mongoloid ancestry).
Yes.

Who is Baloch? I hope you don't mean Kayani. It is like saying some White Britisher's son born in British Occupied India is ethnic Indian.
Muhammad Musa and Gul Hassan, however Gul Hassan has Pashtun descent.

Who is the Sindhi guy? What is his caste? How long did he serve?
Jehangir Karamat, not sure about his caste but I think on his father's side he was a Punjabi. He served for a year before dying from a heart attack. Also many of the Rajput Chief of Army Staff are descended from Sindh.
 
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meh
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In KPK, GB, AJK and Balochistan; the caste system is almost non-existent. In North Punjab people associate themselves with clans called 'baradaris' who don't look down upon other clans. The Caste System only holds relevant influence in South/Rural Punjab and Sindh.
Except that Jatt, Gujjar, Arain are not castes but tribes, you are mixing the two.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/next-army-chief-of-pakistan.77794/page-2

Really shocked by your lack of knowledge and insultive tone. The fact that you don't know the difference between 'Turkish' and 'Turkic' highlights just how much you know.

He traced his lineage to the Mughal Royal Family.

This was one of the last pictures of the Mughal Royal Family when they held power.


and this is Sultana Begum - one of the last known Mughal Royal Family descendant


People change, especially after generates of open marriage. Mughals were known to marry people not of their ethnicity.
:lol:


The first line in wiki article start that their Rajput claim is subjected to debate.


Like i said any mallecha of unknown origin claiming a Rajput origin is suffering from inferiority complex.


The only Rajput found in Pakistan are Hindus living in border areas of Rajasthan/ Sindh whose family Akabr was born when Humayun was exiled after loosing against Sher Shah Suri.
I want to see historic source even musalman sources are accepted which substantiate that Paki were Rajputs not fanboy wiki.


The thing is that their no such thing mentioned Mughal record mention anything like Musalman Rajput
So this makes them more Indian than a Turk both Racially and culturally.



Lol and what is Balras Turk that Negro Claiming as a Mughal.


Mughals were Turko Mongols claimed themselves and the official term used for them is "Timurids" not some Barlas Turk.



As far as these stupid paintings are concerned none of them are Real Turk like the Timurids but rather the Local converts or born out of the marriage of concubines.


_____________________________


I remember how shamelesaly Paki Qawaals Sabri Brothers claimed the lineage from Hindu Tansen who converted during Akbar reign.


But His real descendant wazir Khan from his daughter Saraswati Devi lineage debunked their stupid claim :lol:


You can search this on google.
@Zulfiqar Khan

And one more thing i forgot to tell ya about Rajputs. No self respecting Rajput ever bow in front of your Arab Prophet Muhammad.


No Rajput will ever bow his head in front of a Arab who are culturally, intellectually and Militarily inferior to us.



We have our superior Hindu religion, history and culture for thousands of years.


___________________________

Essentially Rajputs are integral part of Hindu social system and require to follow the duties prescribed by Hinduism and bow only infornt of your Gods, Teachers and Elders.


If you are a Rajput then you must be Hindu. If one converted to Islam then he is not a Rajput.


He can claim whatever he like just like many Rajputs who converted had Khan or Khanjada surnames.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Pathan/Pashtun aren't a caste nor are we considered 'upper (superior or anything)'.
On mainland Pathans were classified as upper caste. Even other central asians were barbarian tribals but mainland Indian Muslims created legends about them as if they were some advanced civilization who brought higher civilization to primitive India. Those Pashtuns who came earlier with Turkic armies got benefits of being associated with ruling class. However, Pashtuns have been migrating to mainland for jobs and mercenaries continuously even after that and large number are poor.

When these mainland Indian elite Muslims created Pakistan in collaboration with British, those Pakistanis (north-west Indians) who got quick entry into elite class because of their large number in British Indian army (army was the only well organized structure in newly created Pakistan) and large land holdings quickly traded their original Indian identity for this membership upper caste club. However their ethnic identity is strong, connected to the land they live on and well known; so as a result they go into Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde mode.

Pashtuns are in funny situation because of Pakistan's dual personality disorder. Pakistanis have adopted ideology of Urdu speaking class of North-central India and even made north-central Indian language Urdu their national language yet they try to prove how they are separate and superior from small black Indians. In the mythology of Urdu speaking ghettos of mainland India, the turko-mongol and Afghan looters are some superior race heroes who came from far away mystic land riding on horses to bring higher civilization to the plains. So Pakistanis also teach same mythology to their children.

However in reality West Punjabis are geographically close to these lands and they see these mythical knights in shining armour in reality as poor migrants and refugees. So Pakistanis name their missiles after Turkic and Afghan heroes and at the same time make Pathan jokes and treat them as dirt.
 

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meh
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However in reality West Punjabis are geographically close to these lands and they see these mythical knights in shining armour in reality as poor migrants and refugees. So Pakistanis name their missiles after Turkic and Afghan heroes and at the same time make Pathan jokes and treat them as dirt.
You are correct that Pashtuns were regarded as upper caste by early British colonial sources but in reality all the tribes of Punjab and Afghanistan have legends about themselves and they each consider themselves as superior to any other. Ask a Jatt or a Gujjar about Pathans and they will scoff and claim they are stronger and Pathans will say the same thing about them in return. However, Zulfiqar is correct that Pashtuns are somewhat economically impoverished compared to the others in modern times, somewhat because Punjabis settled in areas with fertile lands and away from conflict zones and had time to progress.
 

vinuzap

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http://tribune.com.pk/story/317619/arab-origins/

The writer is author, most recently of, “The Apricot Road to Yarkand” (Sang-e-Meel, 2011) and a member of the Royal Geographical Society [email protected]

Every single Muslim in the subcontinent believes s/he is of Arab descent. If not direct Arab descent, then the illustrious ancestor had come from either Iran or Bukhara. Interestingly, the ancestor is always a great general or a saint. Never ever have we heard anyone boasting of an intellectual for a forebear. We hear of the progeny of savage robber kings, but there is no one who claims Abu Rehan Al-Beruni or Ibn Rushd as a distant sire.

Arab origin is the favourite fiction of all subcontinental Muslims. Most claim their ancestor arrived in Sindh with the army under Mohammad bin Qasim (MbQ). But, I have heard of lineages reaching back to Old Testament prophets as well. An elderly Janjua (Rajput), from the Salt Range told me of a forefather named Ar, a son of the Prophet Isaac. Ar, he said, was the ancestor of the races that spoke the Aryan tongue!

Touted as a local intellectual, this worthy was unmindful of the fact that Aryan was not a tribal name but a linguistic classification. Neither could he tell me how the name Ar, not being in the Old Testament, had reached him. He insisted this name headed his family tree and was, therefore true. The chart, written on a piece of rather newish paper had been, the Janjua insisted, copied from an old original. The original was of course destroyed after the copy was made.

The Arains flaunt Salim al Raee as their father — the clan being called after his surname. A great and valiant general in the army of MbQ, this man was from an agricultural family of Syria, so the Tarikh-e-Araiantells us. Closer to our times, the Arains are indeed acclaimed for their green thumb for which reason Shah Jehan relocated a large bunch of them to mind the newly laid out Shalimar Garden of Lahore. Today, they are a very rich clan in Baghbanpura.

The Tarikh expounds on this fictional ancestor’s noble background and courage in battle to the extent that he almost outshines MbQ. But it does not give us any source or reference for the rubbish that sullies its pages. There are two authentic histories of the Arab conquest of Sindh. Ahmad Al Biladhuri’s Futuh ul Buladan (written circa 860) and Hamid bin Ali Kufi’s Tarikh-e-Hind wa Sindh, translated first into the Persian asFatehnama Sindh and then into Sindhi as the Chachnama (written circa 1200).

There are dozens of names sprinkled across the pages of both works, but no mention is made of a blue-blooded warrior called Salim al Raee. There are other histories besides these two works which also disregard this name for the only reason that such a man never existed.

The Awans, similarly, have a fictional ancestor called Qutb Shah from the line of the last caliph of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs. My friend Kaiser Tufail, an Arain, has had himself genetically tested from the US. He has no trace of Arab blood. His line comes from what is now Uzbekistan and has lived from early historic times in the subcontinent. The rest of us of this clan will see similar results should we go through this exercise. Kaiser had his son-in-law, an Awan, also tested. He, too, is singularly clean of Arab genes.

Most of us are the progeny of converts. In their need to escape the discrimination of the so-called higher castes, our ancestors converted to a religion that in theory claimed to profess human equality regardless of colour or caste. I use the words ‘in theory’ because even as the Arabs converted our ancestors to Islam, they discriminated against them for being “Hindis” as we learn this from Ibn Batuta’s own prejudices. And he is not alone.

Consequently, even after conversion, my ancestors, poor agriculturists, were looked down upon by the Arabs and even those who had converted earlier the same way as they were by the Brahmans when they professed their Vedic belief. Within a generation or two, those early converts began the great lie of Arab ancestry to be equal to other converts and the Arabs. This became universal with time.

The challenge then is for all those, Baloch, Pathan, Punjabi et al, who have invented illegitimate fathers for ourselves to get ourselves tested and know the bitter truth.
 

vinuzap

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joshua project sounds more like jews

Cheema, Khokhar, Gujjar, title even in pakistani punjab is similar to ours(converts)
 

vinuzap

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http://www.oocities.org/pak_history/punjabis.html


Before the advent of Islam, but after the Aryan migrations, several invasions and mass migrations of the Central Asian tribes named as the Sakas, Parthians, Kushans, Huns and Gujjars took place in the Punjab (and other parts of Pakistan). The last two tribes i.e. the Huns (White Huns/ Epthalites) and Gujjars arrived in the 5th century AD when Hinduism had revived under the Gupta Empire but had not fully succeeded in crushing the influence of Buddhism. As the Gupta Empire collapsed under the impact of Hun invasions, it caused deep consternation among Brahmins in view of their failure to eliminate Buddhism while the Gupta power supporting them in this task had disappeared. Therefore, they began to make overtures to the new arrivals who were valiant, vigorous and warlike. They were offered the rank of Kshatryas in the Hindu fold, a position only next to that of the Brahmins and confers the responsiblity of rulership.

In the course of time the leading groups of Huns were absorbed in the Hindu fold as Kshatryas while Jats, who were the descendants of the remaining groups of Huns, occupied a lower strata of society. But the present day Jats and Rajputs also include the descendants of the previous invaders..... the Sakas and the Kushans and even of earlier races. Sakas, Parthians, Kushans, White Huns, and Gujjars were ethnically Iranian. In fact, Huns (White Huns/Hepthalites) are also called Iranian Huns to differentiate them from the other Mongoloid Huns who invaded Europe. The word Gujjar is derived from Khazar and Jat from Gatae who inhabited around the Caspian Sea and migrated towards northwest South Asia.

Todd assigns Scythian origin to the Rajputs. Scythians came to be known as Sakas in South Asia, and were absorbed in the Hindu fold as Kshatriyas. Sakas, Yavannas (Greco-Bactrians), Pallavas (Parthians) ultimately became Kshatriyas. The Huns are known to have been regarded as one of the 36 clans of Rajputs. However, except for the Huns, all others had mostly adopted Buddhism mixed with their religions (like Saka sun-worship).

Almost 60% of the population of the Punjab comprises of Rajputs and Jats and the various branches of their race such as Awans, Khokhars, Ghakkars, Khattars, Janjuas, Arains, Gujjars, etc. though the Awans, Khokhars and Khattars claim common ancestry from Qutb Shah who is said to have come from Ghazni with Mahmud Ghaznavi, scholars hold the view that they were most probably converted by Qutb Shah during Mahmud Ghaznavi's reign and were not his descendents. This tendancy of claiming foreign origin by some of the local tribes is not uncommon. Even admittedly Rajput tribes of famous ancestry such as the Khokhar, have begun to follow the example of claiming connection with the Mughal conquerors of India or the Qureshi cousins of the Prophet.

A branch of the Wattu Rajputs of the Sutlej by an affection of peculiar sanctity, have in the course of a few generations become Bodeas and now deny their Rajput and claim Qureshi origin. There is a Kharral family lately settled in Bahawalpur who have begun to affect peculiar holiness and to marry only with each other and their next step will certainly be to claim Arab descent.

However, a significant number of Punjabi tribes are indeed descended from Afghan, Turkic, Arab, Mughal and Iranian Muslim invaders/migrants. Even those who are of local origins but claim foreign Muslim ancestory, might have partial ancestory derived from them. But all in all, the foreign Muslim ancestory element among Punjabis does not exceed more than 20% of their population.

According to Thomson, Awans are a Jat race and were converted to Islam by Mahmud Ghaznavi. In several districts of the Punjab they are registered as Jats. Mr. Thomson in his Jehlum Settlement report adduces many strong reasons in support of his conclusion that the Awans are a Jat race who came from passes west of D.I.Khan. Griffin also agrees to the local Muslim origin of Awans while Cunningham holds that Janjuas and Awans are descended from Anu and calls them Anwan. Another scholar Wilson is of the view that Awans are of indigenous Hindu/Buddhist/Pagan/Animist origin. In the genealogical tree of the Nawabs of Kalabagh, who are regarded heads of the Awans, there are found several native names such as Rai, Harkaran, etc.

As regards Gujjars, the well known scholar Cunningham thinks that they are descended from Scythian (Saka) and Yue-Chi (Kushan) tribes who invaded Pakistan in the first century BC and in the first century AD respectively. Other scholars believe that they are descended from a Central Asian Turkic people called Kazars. Since the tribe migrated from Caspian Sea which is called Bahr-e-Khizar it was named Khizar, Guzar, Gurjar, Gurjara or Gujjar. The name Hazara was given to the district by these Guzara tribes. The name Gujjar, according to another version, is derived from the words 'Gau' and 'Char' meaning cattle grazers.

Though Arains claim Iranian descent, they too are generally considered of Rajput origin, but Rajputs having Scythian-Kushan-Hun origins are indeed related to Iranians. According to the Punjab Gazetteer, the Arains of sahiwal District themselves pointed out that they are Surajbansi Rajputs originally settled around Delhi. Arains of Ghaggar Valley say that they were Rajputs living on the Panjnad near Multan. Mr. Pursr writes that they are usually supposed to be Muslim Kambohs. the Jullander Arains themselves say that they are descended from Rai Chajju of Ujjain. Kambohs claim descent from Raja Keran who was related to him.

Similarly, Ranghars and Meos are described to be of Rajput/Jat origin who were converted to Islam during the time of Qutbuddin Aibak. Kahutas are a mixed Mughal and Rajput tribe. Khattars are related to Awans and Jats.

Khokhars are sometimes returned as Jats and sometimes as Rajputs. Col. Davis notes that many of the social customs of the Khokhars of Shahpur denote Hindu origin. Eastern Punjab Khokhars themselves claim Jat-Rajput origin. Only some of the West Punjab Khokhars claim Arab origin.

Gen. Cunningham identifies the Ghakkars with Gangaridae of Dionysius and holds them to be descendents of Yueti or Tokhari Scythians (sakas).

In Pakistan, Rajput and Jat tribes are so mixed up that it is difficult to distinguish one from the other at many places and in several cases. Some of the Rajput tribes are probably of Jat origin and vice versa. In southwest Punjab the name Jat includes a most miscellaneous congries of tribes of all sorts. Its significance tends to be occupational: to denote a body of cultivators or agriculturists. Even tribes which bear well-known Rajput names are often classified as Jats in the Punjab. Anyway, the origin of both is the same as stated earlier.

Gen. Cunningham and Maj. Todd agree in considering the Jats of Indo-Scythian stock. Maj. Todd classifies Jats as one of the great Rajput tribes. They belong to one and thesame stock.... they have been, for many centuries, so blended and so intermingled into one people that it is practically impossible to distinguish them as separate wholes. At present distinction is social rather ethnic. The same tribe Rajput in one district and Jat in another according to the position in local tribes... During census many of the Jats entered, as third heading, the name of the Rajput tribe from which they claim to have sprung.

The Jats in ancient times inhabited the whole valley of the Indus down to Sind.... They now form a most numerous as well as the most important section of the agricultural population of Punjab.

Beyond the Punjab, Jats are chiefly found in Sind where they form mass of the population.

The main (Muslim) Rajput tribes of the Punjab are: Bhatti, Punwar, Chauhan, Minhas, Tiwana, Noon, Chib, Gheba, Jodhra, Janjua, Sial and Wattu etc. While the important (Muslim) Jat tribes are: Bajwa, Chatta, Cheema, Randhawa, Ghammon, Buta, Kahlon, Gil, Sehota, Taror, Waraich, Summa, Wahla, Bhutta, Malhi, Sukhera, Alpials, Dahas, Langah, Ranghar, Meo, Awan, Khokhar, Ghakkar, etc. But some of these Rajput tribes are classified are Jats and vice versa.

Punjab has had its periods of prosperity and poverty in a regular cycle. Before the arrival of Muslims, Punjab along with the other regions/provinces of present day Pakistan was leading a separate existance from that of India, and kingdoms based in its territories or in the NWFP often ruled over most of northern India. Kushan, Saka, Bactrian and Hun Kingdoms with their capitals at Peshawar, Taxila and Sialkot respectively, ruled over large parts of northern India for centuries.
 

vinuzap

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gujjars in india are more in haryana

a state with second highest per capita in india but in terms of education much is left to be desired
 

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meh
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How are the Gujjars in India? I grew up with them in Pakistan.
In Punjab, it is considered a derogatory term by many to be called a Gujjar. In other parts like some parts of Haryana or UP, they are prominent. So go figure, it proves my point above more strongly.
 

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