Pakistan begs for more helicopters

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by nandu, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. nandu

    nandu Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan wants combat copters

    Pakistan wants combat copters
    U.S. asked to supply arms for 'silent surge' against terrorists


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    A U.S. military Apache helicopter releases an anti-missile decoy flair. Pakistan is seeking $2.5 billion in U.S. helicopters and other arms for battling insurgents.

    Pakistan is seeking advanced U.S. attack helicopters and other weapons as part of a comprehensive arms package to bolster preparations for what its military is calling a "silent surge" of more than 100,000 troops into the mountain lairs of al Qaeda's senior leadership in the country's Northwest Frontier Province.

    "I have been ambassador here for two years, and all I have to show for it is eight secondhand Mi-17 transport helicopters for a war that requires helicopters to root out al Qaeda and the Taliban," Pakistan's ambassador to Washington, Husain Haqqani, said in an interview with The Washington Times.

    The ambassador said, "Military operations would have been quicker and much easier to plan and execute if we had the equipment. We have had tremendous attrition and a lot of loss of lives because of not having the right equipment."

    The $2.5 billion in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, including AH-1W and the Apache-64-D; armed helicopters, such as the AH-6 and MD-530 Little Bird; and utility and cargo helicopters, such as the UH-60 Black Hawk, the CH-47 D Chinook and the UH-1Y Huey.

    Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said the U.S. government is aware of its ally's military wish list.

    "The Pakistani military's interest in additional lift is well-known, and we have tried to help meet their needs by providing several Mi-17s. We will continue to try to help them acquire the helicopters and other equipment they require to defeat the insurgents and terrorists in their midst," Mr. Morrell said.

    Pakistan's military last year reversed its policy of signing cease-fire agreements with local tribal governors as it did in 2007 and 2008 in the regions thought to be hiding places for senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.

    The new "silent surge," however, also has cost the lives of thousands of Pakistani soldiers, including generals. The ambassador said Pakistan has lost more than 600 officers affiliated with the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), its powerful and influential military intelligence arm.

    Pakistan also has lost three one-star generals and one three-star general in combat. Five other generals have been killed in terrorist attacks.

    Pakistani military officials have said their forces have a total of just 26 combat and transport helicopters for a counterinsurgency war in a mountainous region where helicopters provide a critical advantage.

    But the Pakistani wish list also includes equipment that is not traditionally associated with counterinsurgency or mountain warfare. The Pakistanis are also requesting M1A1 tanks and M113A3 armored personnel carriers, as well as air-defense missiles, such as the Stinger, the Javelin and the Hawk.

    The list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

    The CIA operates UAVs in Pakistan for missile strikes against al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. The CIA operations, which are not publicly acknowledged by either government, have caused tensions in the past with Pakistan's military, which argues that it should take the lead in overseeing the drone war in the remote, largely ungoverned tribal provinces.

    Sen. Carl Levin, Michigan Democrat and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told The Washington Times that he was waiting for an assessment from the State Department and the Pentagon before commenting on the Pakistani arms request.

    "We have provided a lot of equipment to Pakistan," he said. "We have seen some progress from them in some areas of the country, and we have seen less willingness in other areas."

    Pakistan has declined to send its troops into North Waziristan. Pakistani officials say they lack the helicopters to fight in the region. Some U.S. officials have pointed out political considerations for Islamabad if an offensive is launched in that region.

    Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican and ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, said in an interview that "we ought to at least consider this request." But he also added that the U.S. should provide "better training and maintenance for Pakistan's military."

    The senator added, "There are continued concerns about this relationship between the ISI and the Taliban."

    But he also noted that a year ago, no one would have predicted that Pakistan's military would take on the Taliban and al Qaeda redoubts in the Northwest Frontier Province. "There is a good argument to provide the equipment they need," he said.

    Retired Army Lt. Gen. David W. Barno, who commanded coalition forces in Afghanistan from 2003 to 2005, said the helicopters Pakistan wants would be useful to counterinsurgency operations.

    "My sense is that all of those helicopters are useful in counterinsurgency operations, given the rugged terrain of western Pakistan. It is less clear that is the case with M1 tanks and air-defense missiles."

    Gen. Barno, who is now a senior adviser and fellow at the Center for a New American Security, said, "We tend to favorably view requests for equipment that are for counterinsurgency and view less favorably requests for equipment that would have a primary purpose for conventional warfare."

    Washington in the past has quietly attempted to dial back tensions between Pakistan and India, two U.S. allies that have fought four wars in the past 60 years. A sale of battle tanks to Pakistan likely would set off alarms in India.

    "Anything on that list would upset the Indians," said Teresita C. Schaffer, director of the South Asia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "That by itself is not really a criterion, though, for these arms sales. Of that list of things, the one that would be most incendiary for the Indians would be the UAVs."

    Ms. Schaffer said that UAVs "are relevant to the terrorism agenda, but the Indians would see that as a way to do deniable attacks against India."

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/15/pakistan-wants-combat-copters/?page=3
     
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  3. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    This is amazing figures admitted by the ambassador

    What were officers associated with the spy agency doing in the front line in such large numbers. Me thinks this list includes the ISI officers actively fighting along with the Afghan Taliban.

    The Pakistanis look like kids let loose in a toy shop. They want everything that meets their eyes.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2010
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  4. Bad kid

    Bad kid New Member

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    The Abrams and M114A3 and stinger seems over exegeration to me..
    We already make many types of A.P.Cs and stingers, Abrams? we have 2 new tanks and a third one(heavy class tank) under development.
     
  5. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Javelin and Stinger Air Defence Missiles!!!!!!!11
    are the terrorist operating Fighter planes!!!
    M113a3 APC made in Pak may be inferior to US made?

    hi @ BK What is the Heavy Class Tank Under development???
    i never heard of it, could u get more info please!!!
     
  6. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Point that you people seem to be missing is that Pakistan Wants(payback). This anti-insurgency operation is seen as a golden opportunity by pakistan to westernize its military by beg(more) and borrow(less) policy. They know with their worsening reputation they may no longer be able to buy western arms so easily once(if) this anti-taliban operation ends.
     
  7. Bad kid

    Bad kid New Member

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    I dont know about javelin... but we already make stingers and have our own ANZA missile series.We have more then 2200 M113a3 and we make several apcs and export them... SAAD,TALHA,etc etc..and their vairants.And i can tell u tht they r not inferior coz saad was based on M113A3.

    Not much is know... except tht it would be 50 ton and most weaponized and armoured tank in the world... it will be the backbone of Pak armoured corps and is to enter service till 2013,,, an upgraded alkhalid-I is already in service.
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Pakistan asks U.S. for advanced attack helicopters
    English.news.cn 2010-06-17 18:32:18

    ISLAMABAD, June 17 (Xinhua) -- Pakistan has asked the United States to provide it with attack helicopters to help improve ongoing operations against Taliban militants in the tribal areas, local media reported Thursday.

    The 2.5 billion U.S. dollars in arms that Pakistan has requested includes new helicopter gunships, armed helicopters, and utility and cargo helicopters, according to the local newspaper Daily Times.

    The Pakistani Military list also includes a request for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), among the newest and deadliest high-tech arms.

    Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said that the U.S. government was aware of its ally's military equipment list, the report said.

    Senator John McCain, a top ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and a former U.S. commander in Afghanistan, also view Pakistan's request favourably, according to a report that appeared in The Washington Times on Wednesday.

    According to media reports, during the last three years, U.S. civilian and security assistance to Pakistan has totaled more than 4 billion dollars. Specific security assistance includes 14 F-16 fighter aircraft, 10 Mi-17 helicopters, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan's Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles and so on.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-06/17/c_13355316.htm
     
  9. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    What are they fighting? An invincible enemy? They are modernizing their arsenal to be used against India by inventing newer methods of begging, which is their oldest profession. But they are doing a damn good job at that.
     
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  10. rizwan78

    rizwan78 Regular Member

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    Yaar oracle think twice before posting such a rude comments, did you ever thought why the USA, & NATO are using modern helicopters, jets, tanks to fight with Taliban in Afghanistan ? it has been clear mentioned on the above post that this deal is worth of 2.5 billion dollars which Pakistan is purchasing not begging, and can you tell me why India is purchasing 126 MRCA, is not that they will be use against Pakistan ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2010
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Well just like China doesnt like any sale of weapons to Taiwan, Indians to dont like weapsons sale to Pak, though not the right comparison between two countries as India doesnt lay claim to Pak territory. But yes, India will cry hoarse as it wants less things to fight against Pak in a war.

    People keep emotions under control.
     
  12. rizwan78

    rizwan78 Regular Member

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    Well , first of all India is not China , and we are not Taiwan, we know how to deal with our enemy, we know how to milk USA, we also now how to keep India on its bay, i have never remember a single deal of Pak defense purchases has been cancelled by any country on behalf of Indian request , which i personally think ashamed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  13. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    What Arms deal was really worth Blocking by India? India cries everytime you guys get an AK47, true, thats just for public consumption, but when India wanted something cancelled, they have done it, the recent case being the Avionic Package for the F17 from France!!!

    BTW, what have you guys got from the USA worth asking for? I mean a couple of F16s??? What has China given you guys worth Asking? F7s???
     
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  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Yes Pakistan is not Taiwan in any which way we can think of and my post prior to this makes it clear.

    Yes it erks India that Pakistan gets these freebies which will eventually be used against India and so it tries to resist it.

    Let me think of a recent thing, yes France decided not to sell avionics to Pak for the JF-17 as it cherishes 126 combat planes more than avionics.
    Ditto with the US who can re think their F-16 sales in future to the prospect of having sales to India.
     
  15. rizwan78

    rizwan78 Regular Member

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    here you go ..........o yar France has not cancel this deal due to Rafale deal it has been cancelled due to France concern technology might be fall in to the hands of chines. let me clear you if it is true after the Indian selection of MRCA it will be easy for Pakistan to get it hands on rafale if India select F-18, F-16, and might get F-18, F-16 , if India select Rafale
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I doubt F-18 would be offered considering the Billions in deals Boeing has with India.
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Right, thats why india is cushioning that up with upgrades of mirage, buying hercules and P8s etc. It will buy from all and keep them happy and try to use that as a leverage.
     
  18. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

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    Pakistan is not purchasing them. Its supposed to be reparations to the mercenary pak army (aid) for fighting US war. Oh and there are tons of instances where Russia has denied arms sales to Pak because of its arms sales to India. Moreover, France is selling stuff to China, why would they worry if avionics changes hands?
     
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  19. rizwan78

    rizwan78 Regular Member

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    and what you think, you will capture Pakistan with all these mighty weapons purchase ? No, No never it has been going on on & on , world will keep earning to keep balance in the region.
     
  20. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Who the heck told we will Capture Pakistan? You are now Trolling, because you couldnt stand on the points you raised, and got thrashed! Act Sane, dont be a suicide poster!
     
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  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Rizwan this has already happened a few times in the past no need to do the same thing over and over again.
     
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