Pakistan as US enemy not in India's interest: M J Akbar

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by SHASH2K2, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India
    Pakistan as US enemy not in India's interest: M J Akbar
    Experts on Tuesday described the Indo-US strategic dialogue as "healthy" after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna enumerated the goals and aspirations at a joint conference in New Delhi."I think the sale of defence tech was an important announcement by the US. Hillary managed to lubricate that block," senior journalist M.J. Akbar told Headlines Today.Reacting to US' stern message to Pakistan telling it to "act on terror on its own behalf first and foremost" in the wake of 13/7, Akbar, the editorial director of India Today, said, "Hillary said what was expected of her. It would not be in India's interest for Hillary to declare Pakistan as its enemy." Describing the strategic dialogue as good, Akbar added, "I think you can see from the baby's face that it's a healthy partnership."Echoing his views, former Indian ambassador to US Ronen Sen said, "I think both the visa and nuclear co-operation issues can be resolved now - there are reports that US visas are being misused. On the Indo-US nuclear co-operation, despite its support, America has always spoken some kind of restrictions."Strategic affairs analyst Sushant Sarin said the "Indo-US meeting lived up to expectations". "Though there were no big-bang announcements, what I can make out is on nuclear co-operation, India got some assurance from the US," he told Headlines Today."Responding to US' stand on terrorism vis-a-vis Pakistan, Sarin also agreed with Akbar, saying, we will have to "wait and see". "On transactional issues, India and the US seemed to have made further progress," he said. This is a big takeaway, he added.​
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
    pankaj nema likes this.
  2.  
  3. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,454
    Likes Received:
    1,410
    I just do not agree with M J akbar US Pakistan enimity is definitely good for India

    The US pakistan relationship will hence forth have two " ERAS " like we have BC And AD

    Pre May 2 2011 and post may 2 2011

    Pakistan BARELY "escaped a Whipping " after May 2 2011

    Pakistan and USA have become enemies .It is just a question of how much nonsense will USA tolerate

    The US stopped aid of 800 million and Gen Pasha went running to Washington DC and CIA was BACK in Pakistan

    Pakistan will be "sanctioned" into submission There is no need for Military action

    US will never forget and forgive the Pakistani perfidy of Hiding Al qaeda especially OBL

    Pakistani ego has been badly bruised but they just dont have any choice but to cooperate with US in hunting out Al qaeda
     
  4. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    5,718
    Location:
    irrelevant
    I kinda agree.

    US has always acted as a kind of 'check' on Pakistan.

    But if Pakistan leaves US ambit and goes towards China, we loose that check and the Chinis will go all the way in placating them to make sure they (Pakistan) act as a resource drainer for India.
     
    Virendra likes this.
  5. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    467
    Perhaps, MJ Akbar wants a strong, vibrant and flourishing Pakistan and obviously he considers US support critical. But how is that going to help India, I just cannot understand. Pakistan has been hostile to India from the moment of its inception(infact, its very inception is based on hostility). So, any change in Pakistan's behaviour vis-a-vis India is nothing short of a miracle(a monstrous miracle). And realpolitik is not based on hopes of miracles, it is based on hard facts on ground. The hard fact for all pakistan apologists is that pakistan has unleashed a frankestien monster named Islamic terrorism. This monster is bound to gobble up Pakistan sooner than later. All the billions poured into Pakistan by US over the decades is proving to be a masssive wastage of public money especially in these hard financial times.
    India must realise that Pakistan is lost cause and must prepare for that eventuality. Pakistan nukes are already pointed towards India and their leaders(egged on by the radical society) have very low threshold. Nukes have become first line of defence for Pakistan. And secure under the nuclear umbrella, islamic pakistani terrorists have assaulted India with impunity while India govt has been rendered impotent audience moaning complaints(or dispatching dossiers).
    If US stops supporting Pakistan, then Pakistan is much defanged and can be handled by India by the assitance of US. Only the greatest india-hater would want India to pray for US-pakistan friendship. Such an action from India, would be nothing short of digging its grave or setting its pyre on fire...
     
    Virendra likes this.
  6. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Location:
    Delhi, India, India
    Can't disagree with both the arguments :( What a fix !!
     
  7. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    467
    It is a myth that Pakistan was checked by US. On the contrary, Pakistan was armed and maintained by US. Without US, Pakistan is impotent. Without the billions of dollars donated by US; without the latest gadgets provided by US free of cost; without the international support rendered by US to Pakistan; Pakistan is nothing more than another failed state. But Pakistan has been transformed into international migraine because of critical support of US from the time of Pakistan's inception.

    As and when, US stops supporting Pakistan, it is countdown for Pakistan. China could never play the same role as US. China can neither be as 'generous' or as powerful as US has been in its support to Pakistan. And if Pakistan becomes China's satellite, US will turn against it. If US turns against Pakistan, then Pakistan is gone. China can do nothing about that.

    Pakistan has throughout its history bitten off the hand that has fed it. US has ignored this behaviour for it considered Pakistan's existance critical to its own role in Asia. China cannot ignore this kind of behaviour.

    Lastly, Pakistan provides no gains for any investment. The business minded chinese would not venture into such a losing proposition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  8. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Location:
    Delhi, India, India
    China may not keep Pakistan floating as US has but it can surely keep Pakistan dangerous enough to be a resource draining threat for India.
    That is till where China will feed Pakistan and it can feed them that much.
    Meaning Pakistan itself goes into spiral fall but continues to be a disease. An even worse disease, more motivated/addicted than ever to be so because the ones holding their umbilical cord would ask them to cut India thousand places.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
    ganesh177 likes this.
  9. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,474
    Likes Received:
    467
    China has been able to arm pakistan largely because US has covered all other bases. If US quits and Pakistan depends on China for its survival, then China would called upon by Pakistan to provide billions of aid, to protect the 'honour and diginity' of Pakistan(when state-terror nexus is exposed by US based media), to donate all the gadgets and consistently bridge the growing gap between India and pakistan, to ignore all the foolish acts of pakistan and its leaders...and so on.

    And there will be sermons by Pakistanis to Chinese on how pakistan's friendship is critical for China's impending super-powerdom.

    Can China tolerate all that? Would China want to tolerate all that? It is a losing proposition. China has been very clever in dealing with pakistan, so far. While all the critical work was done by US; China gave only the specific support it wanted to lend. But without US in the picture(or worse, with a hostile US in the equation), China would have to play a far bigger role. A role that would drain China without giving any major gains.

    US support is most critical, therefore, to the survival of Pakistan. Without, this support, Pakistan would soon dismember into zones ruled by war-lords. The only point is denuclearise it before that happens. US is stopping this process actively, hoping that Pakistan would see common-sense and rectify itself. But Pakistan is past that time. Now, it cannot be redeemed...

    Today, the war is already being fought within the borders of Pakistan. US, is tackling, small chunks of the problem. Hopefully, India can take advantage from this prevailing environment and instead of being a silent spectator.
     
  10. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Stopping of US assistance and if at all they become enemies, the only way India can benefit is if both India and the US work towards a break up of Pakistan. An intact Pakistan under Chinese control, like an extension of China itsel,f is not good news.
     
    ganesh177 likes this.
  11. Vyom

    Vyom Seeker Elite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    328
    Pakistan needs continuous aids for sustenance, and China, unlike US has shown no intent for freebies to Pakistan for Pakistan's sake. China could not make use of failed state or as good as that.
     
    johnee likes this.
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    They can change the policy once they know the US is completely out of the picture and is now Paks enemy. Right now China pays nothing but enjoys massive goodwill in Pak and the US pays everything to keep that country alive but are cursed day in day out. China can start sustaining Pak when US leaves. 2-3 billion is loose change for it. It gets direct access to Arabian sea and gulf.
     
  13. Vyom

    Vyom Seeker Elite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    328
    I doubt that when the US becomes Pakistan's enemy, as in enemy for real, there will be any safe and sanitized means to access Arabian sea and gulf. And no matter how much goodwill China enjoys in Pakistan, when it comes to giving access to strategic locations to another country, even Pakistan would face terrible resistance from within.

    However, the thought that US and Pakistan would become born enemies is a far flung idea right now. The US would continue to use Pakistan against WoT until and only unless Pakistan stops cooperating at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  14. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    760
    Pakistan is in a position where it has nothing to lose, that combined with the nuclear trump card makes it very easy to create a perfect hostage situation. All the bravado aside truth of the matter is no one can afford an anarchic Pakistan. Unfortunately the situation is so bizarre that it is hard to construct (realistic) workable solutions. The two major fallacies by the US and India respectively are that genuine change Pakistan can be bought, and that Pakistan can be broken up to facilitate some Akhand Bharat nonsense. Neither one of these imaginary scenarios are going to work out.

    For the time being the best way forward is to maintain some contact to prevent a total collapse, keep hitting the safe havens and limit the inevitable terrorist activities to Pakistan. The one important area that is being neglected IMO is the soft power approach to positively influence the young educated Pakistani elite and the fledgling middle class.

    In the long term one can only hope for the sake of the civilized world that the Pakistanis finally wake up, smell the roses and get their own house in. However such an endeavor is most probably going to take a generation which is why I think it's so important to court the young educated Pakistanis. Unfortunately the dangerous cycle of ignorance, delusional ideas, misplaced hatred and confusion of the self identity is being perpetuated by clowns like Zaid Hamid, Ahmed Quaraishi et. al. who have managed to tap into this highly vulnerable cohort.

    I don't know why there's so much concern about Pakistan tilting toward China. Problem is that everyone want's to perceive everything from an India vs. Pakistan view. Truth is that the world is a much, much bigger place and there are many other things going on. If there is one thing we know it's that the Chinese aren't stupid. Right now they are very happy keep the Pakistanis content by feeding into the nonsensical "strategic" obsession and provide inconsequential military hardware. But that is only because they know that the American tax payer is picking up the tab to keep the Pakistani society solvent right now. However the Chinese are clever enough to realize that if Pakistan collapses the metastatic effect would reach China as well, particularly the restive Xinjiang province. Which means if they are to become the new benefactors they would have to pick up the Pakistani bill, and let's see how that works out. If you look into the history of modern China's foreign policy you will see that they have never actually empowered their client states, and Pakistan will be no exception. Too bad the Pakistanis can't see this themselves in spite of the never ending musical chairs played by various benefactors.

    But like I said, the best way forward right now is to maintain a strong defense.
     
    Virendra likes this.
  15. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    Calcutta, India, India
    lets stop giving aid to pakistan and see how china respond ,than it will have the critical task of feading and maintaining pakistan law and order besides china have its own problem with its muslim population ,so they will experiance a simmilar situation what now america facing,so why do the dirty work? now master have to take care their proxis in s asea.
     
  16. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,674
    Likes Received:
    2,923
    Location:
    Delhi, India, India
    Not in our hands. Americans are the ones who have to write such lines in their policy documents.
     

Share This Page