Pak negotiating 36 advanced China's J-10B fighter jets

[SATISH]

36 J-10's noting infront of Su-30MKI.
as Sukhoi are Frontline fighters of IAF.

Can we please keep the Sukhoi out of this. Sukhoi is not unbeatable.

 

[Koji]

"Pressure was mounting within both Israel and the US to cancel the program. In Israel, critics included members of the army and the air force who saw huge segments of the defense budget being eaten away by a plane that was years away from development (after seven years, only two prototypes had been produced) and millions of dollars over cost.17 US critics projected that by 1990 spiralling Lavi costs would consume nearly half of all military assistance funds to Israel. Even worse, the Lavi would compete against US aircraft in world markets."

Doesn't this mean that it was cancelled because of external pressure and not because of design flaws? I believe I'm correct.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

AESA is suggested with the J-10B with its downward sloping nose cone, but yes, it is speculation right now. What is known is that the J-10B is intended for an AESA radar, but I don't know if the Chinese have one ready for production/import.

I think the delivery may be expected by 2015 and the engine has to prove a safe and good performance.

It's not worthy to set up facility of tot for 36 planes.

I think the only reason I can speculate is China might have agreed to sell the planes in soft loans which might be easy on Pakistan's economy. Also the fighter spare parts will be immune to sanctions.

 

[qilaotou]

I think the only reason I can speculate is China might have agreed to sell the planes in soft loans which might be easy on Pakistan's economy. Also the fighter spare parts will be immune to sanctions.

To be immune from sanctions is the first consideration of PAF. Cost effective performance might be the second reason for PAF to go for Chinese fighters. Money is no problem for China to export the planes.

may be pakistan is banking on chinese to prove the WS-10 engine by 2015, so they can take delivery.

Engine is a major issue. On the other hand Chinese aviation industry is hands tight and their production lines are 24 hours on drift. PAF will not have cash pressure to procure J-10s as they have budgeted these several years ago.

 

[Rahul Singh]

\ Money is no problem for China to export the planes.

But it's a problem for Paks. Wonder, from where they will shift money from? Obama administration had already spoken about tightening the screw. PRC may have to forget about payments of the dues.

 

[Koji]

But it's a problem for Paks. Wonder, from where they will shift money from? Obama administration had already spoken about tightening the screw. PRC may have to forget about payments of the dues.

Soft loans=gifts. Like those new frigates, I suspect these will be given as a gesture of good will.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Soft loans=gifts. Like those new frigates, I suspect these will be given as a gesture of good will.

I suspect it to part of that $ 5 billion beg, which beijing promised to visiting pakistani PM(or something).

 

[tarunraju]

So that's where the humanitarian aid (money that feeds poor) is headed.

 

[Rahul Singh]

So that's where the humanitarian aid (money that feeds poor) is headed.

Frankly, Pak administration doesn't care about their peoples. When they saw change in american attitude they went to PRC for meeting their defence need to keep their big mouth boasting. How typical can it be?

 

[blade]

Can we please keep the Sukhoi out of this. Sukhoi is not unbeatable.

Sir i appriciate your attempt to keep the blog focused and clean but we should also remember even F-22 raptor is not unbeatable either but the tendency of always comparing everything with sukhoi is a waste of time and injustice to this mighty mechine.

 

[Rage]

Aiite guys, let's not be hatin' on Pakistani's military purchase. The article only confirms what we've known for a long time: that the Pakistani Air Force is interested in the J-10B instead of the standard J-10 variant currently in service with the PLAAF.

If the October 30th article on Flight Global is any indication, negotiations for the purchase of 36 J-10's began "several years ago". The article also suggests a 2014-15 delivery timeframe, to begin deliveries.

To assess what this means for us: a focus on the distinctions between the J-10A (their initial, proposed purchase) and J-10B (their now, proposed purchase) is prudent: enhancements include a modified vertical stabiliser and ventral fins, redesigned engine inlets, an enlarged dorsal spine and single-piece bubble canopy, a new radar [Aktiv/Passiv spekulated], DSI 'stealth' intakes and an infrared search and track sensor. Some other rumours such as conformal fuel tanks for longer range and internal weapons bay have been dispelled as bogeys. I propose a 'conservative' assessment (from our point of view) and will assume that DSI intakes (because it is both within the technological inventory of the PLAAF and the 'pictures' of the J-10B displayed so far reveal visible bumps, notwithstanding that these could very likely also be photoshopped, in keeping with frequent practice) and AESA radar (because of the back-leaning angle of the radome attachment bulkhead, visible in this picture below-although the structural feature could imply either an active or passive electronically scanned array) is plausible.

What is of immediate significance to us however, is the news that the J-10B will be equipped with "PL-9C within-visual-range and PL-12 beyond-visual-range air combat missiles built by the Luoyang Opto-Electro Technology Development Centre" [During the Zuhai Air Show 1996, the China Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute/No 607 Research Institute exhibited a newly-developed active radar seeker, the AMR-1. This seeker was, in turn, believed to have been mated with a new air- to-air missile design, derived from the LY-60 surface-to-air missile, and dubbed the 'PL-12'. This active radar missile, and the earlier semi-active radar homing PL-11, seemed to have a common design heritage with the Italian 'Aspide' missile, supplied to China in the late 1980s. The status of the PL-11 and 'LY-60/PL-12' development programmes is unclear, but sources within CATIC say these earlier programmes have all been abandoned in favor of the PL-12]. If this is true, then it would give the PLA, and the PAF, a potent airborne weapon on par with mainstream Western Airforces around the world, with a range of 80 km, and erode into our mammoth BVR advantage in 2015.


P.S.: I'd like someone with the skills to investigate whether these pictures are PS'ed or not. They are from "Chinese web pages", supposedly panned onto Asian Defence. I certainly don't have the skillz. But I know some of you do.

I'd also like opinions on these categorical postulates, particularly from the MP's.

 

[K Factor]

China set to take on Obama by selling advanced jets to Pakistan

Saibal Dasgupta, TNN 11 November 2009, 08:02pm IST

BEIJING: China has sent out an interesting signal ahead of US president Barack Obama's scheduled visit to Beijing by offering a set of advanced fighter jets to Pakistan. It has agreed to sell $1.4 billion worth of jets to Islamabad days ahead of the planned visit of the US president Barack Obama to Shanghai and Beijing on November 15-18.

China set to take on Obama by selling advanced jets to Pakistan - China - World - The Times of India

I am missing something? China has offered to a set of advanced fighters. It has agreed to sell them.

Has the deal been inked? There is no evidence yet to confirm it. Even the US has offered to sell us the F-18 or F-16, France has offered to sell Rafale. These mean squat.

I think the journos may be jumping the gun.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This article's title needs to be Changed, China is not selling (gifting) and the Jets are not advanced.

 

[proud_hindustani]

Good for Pakistan. How many J-10B pakistan wants in its PAF?
Nothing is free and none of any country would give their high numbers of military toys to other country for free.

 

[SATISH]

Sir i appriciate your attempt to keep the blog focused and clean but we should also remember even F-22 raptor is not unbeatable either but the tendency of always comparing everything with sukhoi is a waste of time and injustice to this mighty mechine.

That is what I meant exactly....

 

[bengalraider]

Good for Pakistan. How many J-10B pakistan wants in its PAF?
Nothing is free and none of any country would give their high numbers of military toys to other country for free.

You have to keep your client states in good humor by giving them free stuff once in a while ,if it serves your foreign policy.The J-10'S, JF-17's ,F-22's etc have more to do with chinese policy vis a vis india than anything to do with pakistan directly.

 

[ZOOM]

Selection of J-10 was long overdue and much needed one as well, as PAF has drastically need a kind of a fighter machine that can give a true BVR capability as well as some standoff launching of Air to ground weapons for high value target across the border. There is no denying to the fact that, J-10 complemented by Erieye will be a good mix of offensive platform. But all in all, PAF will do everything it can to equipped this aircraft with all round BVR and WVR capability by datalinking the same with upcoming Erieye AEW. Although, despite having good friendship between this two nations, J-10 are slightly costly as compared all other supply of fighter jet by china and hence we can see low number in the meanwhile. J-10 will give PAF a true fighter platform for effective use during conflict.
In the meanwhile, J-10 seems to have using Isreali EL type radar, will it be going to be a same radar for PAF version as well or any other type?

 

[nitesh]

^^

Zoom I think all the Chinese planes will be controlled by Chinese AWACS not from Erieye. Correct me if I am wrong

 

[ZOOM]

^^

Zoom I think all the Chinese planes will be controlled by Chinese AWACS not from Erieye. Correct me if I am wrong

Yes, Chinese Awacs is on card, but it is highly unlikely to be delivered anytime soon and same is the case with J-10. But one thing for sure, J-10 will join first and by the time delivery begin for J-10, PAF will not only induct Erieye but also will gain institutional knowledge about this particuler platform around which they will going to design their doctrine. Under such circumstances, it would be highly discounting to say that J-10 will not be datalinked with Erieye, as both this platform will be regarded as highly high-tech in inventory.

 

[ZOOM]

For a price tag of $40 million a piece, uncertain engines, uncertain avionics and no ToT?

Pak should rather buy JAS Gripen which will come for the same price with ToT and is proven with AESA too. Also, Pak also has an option to opt for more F-16 block 52.

Mushy somewhere in 2003-04 approch swedish government for the purchase of Gripen, but he god kick in the butt as Swedish Govt made clear that they don't want to sell offensive platform to Pak as it will rather create imbalance in the region and overall peace, but approved Erieye as it is a defence platform.

It's an engine that still has flaws in design and quality problem in production. But it's usable with care. It's why PLAF started induction of the engines on twin engine J-11s. You may see more problem reports in the future but the use and further development of the engine will continue.

Gentleman, please always back your claims with some tangible technical back up as if there were flaws in engine then Pak may never signed for it.