Pak may give nukes to 'surrogate Taliban' for use against India: U.S.

BunBunCake

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3)We don't need it, it will be a simple waste of money, it will be better to go for more U-214s
clap clap
Wrong.
You do need it. But you cannot get it.

Simple as that.
You really think the PN wouldn't NEED a nuclear submarine? or WANT it?

When you have a nuclear sub, you can keep it anywhere. Equip it with long range SLBM's. You don't think that's needed?
You think PN can match the IN, based on your fleet size or the tech?
 
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nrj

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So in this whole process; Indian Intelligence, RAW will be sleeping??

If so is the game, why cant so called Talibanis or so called Pak sponsored Terrorist organizations hiding in Afgan get their toy bomb from PRC? Just like PRC helped Pak..

Indian security is all level tight at this moment. What makes US fat a** think such fantasy will take place??

Whateve f**k happens outside in the world be nuclear proliferation, Pak getting Nuke deal, Iran problem, Al-Queda or Alien invasion, nobody is messing with India this grand way!

India will retaliate that be obvious thing but apart from India (left or destroyed); US, Russia will jump in Asia to mark their next century.

No such thing is happening. Indian BMD is good enough to counter such threat (Unless they are sh*tting 40+ something nukes at a time on India). And i don't think anyone's head will be left if they try to bring the baby on the mainland & trigger it.

US administration (OBAMA) should better stop underestimating India & realize situation of South Asia or millions of lives will be lost for a fool's *ss itch...

Really what a bunch of clowns sitting with power in this time ....
 
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3)We don't need it, it will be a simple waste of money, it will be better to go for more U-214s
EG in a previous post you were thrilled that HR said chinese maybe helping you with this, now you say you do not need it, which one is it??
 

DaRk WaVe

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clap clap
Wrong.
You do need it. But you cannot get it.

Simple as that.
You really think the PN wouldn't NEED a nuclear submarine? or WANT it?

When you have a nuclear sub, you can keep it anywhere. Equip it with long range SLBM's. You don't think that's needed?
You think PN can match the IN, based on your fleet size or the tech?
I am sure you are talking about 'second strike capability' despite of the fact that Pakistan has 'First Use Policy' :p

I am not talking about 'matching' we need only a force that can deter IN without any problem, Right now I dont see Nuclear Submarine coming to PN, there is no God Damn way can get it(or atleast its not coming into my mind), we dont have a capacity nor money, Pakistan Making Nuclear Submarine will be Miracle but i wont mind PN having it

now you say you do not need it, which one is it??
I wont mind having it but seeing our economic situation we cannnot add a Nuclear Submarine, Nuclear Submarine ain't a JOKE, if PN is just looking for 'deterrence' with cost effectiveness, we can always go for more U-214s or may be it seems Pakistan is seriously thinking about 'Second Strike Capability'
 
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I am sure you are talking about 'second strike capability' despite of the fact that Pakistan has 'First Use Policy'

I am not talking about Matching we need only a force that can deter IN without any problem, Right now I dont see Nuclear Submarine coming to PN, there is no God Damn way can get it, we dont have a capacity nor money, Pakistan Making Nuclear Submarine will be Miracle of the Century but i wont mind PN having it
what second strike capability do you have you cannot launch SLBM's or produce them?
 

DaRk WaVe

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what second strike capability do you have you cannot launch SLBM's or produce them?
I agree we literally have ZERO second Strike Capability, Nuclear Submarine in present situation only means we are serious about Second Strike Capability, lets wait & see but to be honest I am stunned to hear about Pakistani Nuclear Submarine, our Navy is the most 'outgunned' force out of three forces, Nuclear Submarine, awwww Seriously PN with Nuclear Submarine, where's my inhaler, lolzzz
 
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DaRk WaVe

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lolzzz seems i missed this news, but I will be waiting for a confirmation from Hit&Run

Former Pakistani officials have claimed that Pakistan is in the process of developing its own nuclear submarine and, as a stop gap measure it could lease a nuclear submarine from a friendly power, i.e., China; deploy nuclear-armed cruise missiles on its diesel submarines; and continue fissile material production for the "foreseeable future." Another reason for a larger fissile material stockpile is Bharat's pursuit of ballistic missile defenses. (China has raised the same point with regard to U.S. strategic missile defenses.) In 2004 the military officer who serves as director of arms control and disarmament affairs at the Strategic Plans Division argued that Bharat's missile defense program is likely to "trigger an arms race" and that Pakistan could build more missiles and more warheads, requiring more fissile material; develop decoys and multiple warhead missiles; and move to an alert deployment posture. In 2009, India carried out its third test of a missile interceptor.
http://www.pakistanpatriot.com/?p=340
 
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I agree we literally have ZERO second Strike Capability, Nuclear Submarine in present situation only means we are serious about Second Strike Capability, lets wait & see but to be honest I am stunned to hear about Pakistani Nuclear Submarine, our Navy is the most 'outgunned' force out of three forces, Nuclear Submarine, awwww Seriously PN with Nuclear Submarine, where's my inhaler, lolzzz
The navy is ok your diesel sub program is ok and for a country pakistan's size and economy no one else has this many diesel electric subs, but nuclear subs are a whole different ball game I posted a link above where countries cannot work together to make nuclear subs even Brazil and France have not advanced on this, so I doubt Pakistan will reach this stage any time soon , with a nuclear sub program will come a whole new set of costs and challenges, the bigger powers would also have to accept Pakistan becoming a blue water navy.

http://kuku.sawf.org/Articles/59935.aspx

Brazil's nuclear submarine deal with France has lessons for India

September 08, 2009, (Sawf News) - Brazil and France signed a strategic defense cooperation agreement on September 3 under which France will assist Brazil in the construction of state-of-the-art conventional and nuclear submarines.

The agreement covers the construction of four conventional submarines and a comprehensive technology transfer program to assist Brazil in the construction of the non-nuclear portion of its first nuclear-powered submarine.

The conventional submarines will feature some of the most advanced technology available in the world.

"These vessels will feature advanced technologies and innovations developed in recent years for French Navy programs, particularly with regard to hydrodynamics, acoustic discretion, automation and combat systems," said Admiral Júlio Soares de Moura Neto, Commander in Chief of the Brazilian Navy.

"They will also be designed for ease of maintenance, the key to improved operational availability."

The submarines will be built by Itaguaí Construções Navais, a joint venture set up by DCNS and Brazilian partner Odebrecht in late August. The joint venture has an initial capital of 10 million reals and will be responsible for management control. Odebrecht has a 59% interest and DCNS the remaining 41%. Through Itaguaí Construções Navais, the program will provide employment for over 700 people in Brazil over a period of 15 years.

The agreement between France and Brazil has lessons for India whose past pursuit of advanced defense technology has been characterized by a perplexing mix of secrecy, visions of grandeur and misplaced sense of national pride. After years of fitful progress and heavy expenses such projects have usually ended with an outright purchase of foreign technology.

Many such quixotic pursuits have left the defense forces enfeebled over the years, though DRDO, which has executed these projects, has burgeoned in size and clout.

So far DRDO has managed to easily get funding for its projects by stoking national pride and hyping the caliber of its scientists, equating intelligence to technology. However, as its size has grown, DRDO's incompetence has become increasingly evident. The nation now realizes that advanced technology can only emerges from an advanced technological base that is grounded on commercial viability. Defense projects cannot be equated with class room projects to encourage ideas and innovations. They must make the nation stronger, not weaker.

Thankfully, new hi-tech defense projects are increasingly being implemented as commercial collaborative ventures in India.

In the Brazilian deal, it is interesting how France's DCNS will retain 41% ownership of the joint venture with the Brazilian entity.

DCNS will act as design authority and prime contractor for the construction of the four conventional-propulsion submarines to be built by Itaguaí Construções Navais. DCNS plants and shipyards will supply a range of advanced-technology items.

Had an Indian entity entered into a similar arrangement with DCNS for the manufacture of Scorpene submarines at Mazagaon Docks Limited (MDL) under Project 75, it is unlikely the project would have seen the two year delay that it is now confronted with because of teething problems, delays in absorption of technology, delays in augmentation of industrial infrastructure and procurement of MDL purchased materials (MPM).

Perhaps India should have similarly set up joint commercial entities to implement the Admiral Gorshkov / INS Vikramaditya refit and the construction of its Indian Aircraft Carrier (IAC).

Had Svemash shipyard in Severodvinsk been part of the commercial entity charged with refurbishing Gorshkov it is unlikely an exorbitant and incomprehensible cost escalation would have occurred. Similarly by making Italy's Fincantieri a stake holder in the constructing of IAC would have been a good way to preclude delays in the project.

Back to topic no more off topic discussion
 
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DaRk WaVe

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The navy is ok your diesel sub program is ok and for a country pakistan's size and economy no one else has this many diesel electric subs, but nuclear subs are a whole different ball game I posted a link above where countries cannot work together to make nuclear subs even Brazil and France have no advanced on this, so I doubt Pakistan will reach this stage any time soon , with a nuclear sub program will come a whole new set of costs and challenges, the bigger powers would also accept Pakistan becoming a blue water navy.
I agree,
Nuclear Submarine with Pakistan ufff, PN had no aspiration to become a Blue Water Navy, If this fuss about Nuclear Submarine is True Pakistan is entering a new RACE & Naval Doctrine will change because if PN was just looking for a defensive posture more U-214s ( or may be Merlins) will be enough
 

Vinod2070

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Lolz the most funniest headline and false assumption i have heard and read so far.

Some vital questions

Q 1. Who will be benefited by any such "nuke" attack on India?

Answer: None other than US and India.
This is called primitive thinking. How would Indians dying in large number benefit India!

By the same token, is Pakistan getting benefited by the large scale killings of the Pushtun tribals and hundreds of thousands of IDPs? It is reaping diplomatic gains for sure.

Q 2. Who will be harmed the most by any such assumed attack ?

Answer: None other than Pakistan.
You are also harmed by sponsoring the terror organizations like LET and JEM, still you keep on sponsoring them.

Q 3. Who can stage any such attack and provide any dirty bomb to militants?

Answer: India or US or both jointly.
Pakistan is the only source of nuclear material for the Islamic terrorists. OBL made that decision long ago. Its just a matter of time.

Q 4. Why would India, US stage any such attack?

Answer: Because thats the easiest way to implicate Pakistan for disarming her of her nukes and nuclear program after US and India failed to do that through other means.
Preemptive conspiracy theories! But they don't work. If a nuke in the hands of the terrorists kills innocents anywhere, the world will fall on Pakistan like a tonne of bricks. None of these spurious arguments will help.

There will be no telephone call the next time!
 

DaRk WaVe

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Pakistan is the only source of nuclear material for the Islamic terrorists. OBL made that decision long ago. Its just a matter of time.
there is no point for Pakistan to give these weapons to AQ, when it has more reliable delivery system(you people are over estimating your ABMs) & for 'loose nukes' you need to understand that minimizing a Nuclear a Weapon is not a Joke & AQ has no Nuclear Scientists & Enginners
 
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there is no point for Pakistan to give these weapons to AQ, when it has more reliable delivery system(you people are over estimating your ABMs) & for 'loose nukes' you need to understand that minimizing a Nuclear a Weapon is not a Joke & AQ has no Nuclear Scientists & Enginners
where is the overestimation in the ABM?? It is a layered system which layer specifically??
 

Agantrope

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there is no point for Pakistan to give these weapons to AQ, when it has more reliable delivery system(you people are over estimating your ABMs) & for 'loose nukes' you need to understand that minimizing a Nuclear a Weapon is not a Joke & AQ has no Nuclear Scientists & Enginners
Qui9te Funny, But who knows how the chinese missiles works well or what??
 

Vinod2070

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You are already violating the treaty and using the water issue anyway thats another debate.

if there is no parity then why India is sleepless and coming up with BS conspiracy theories.
Your only parity is with the Afghans on the other side of Durand. India and Pakistan share nothing and there is no question of any parity.
 

DaRk WaVe

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where is the overestimation in the ABM?? It is a layered system which layer specifically??
well..............

The BMD program also has a lot to do with the shift to conventional weapons if Pakistan's Ballistic missiles are neutralized then they have to go back to other options like cruise missiles or fiddling with Harpoon missiles, but even in the conventional sense there is no parity but a defensive posture. Why India has not used the water issue as leverage is puzzling to me why continue with a treaty with a nation that hates you so much it is ready to self destruct?
I am not saying tht Indian ABMs are just 'crap' but what makes you think Pakistan will not go for ways to neutralize this thing, but still i have to say that recent excerses are showing that Pakistan is shifting more towards the conventional side, i still dont see why we need some 'non state actors' to press the button when we can do it ourselves

Qui9te Funny, But who knows how the chinese missiles works well or what??
& who knows about the Indian ABMs :p
 
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Vinod2070

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there is no point for Pakistan to give these weapons to AQ, when it has more reliable delivery system(you people are over estimating your ABMs) & for 'loose nukes' you need to understand that minimizing a Nuclear a Weapon is not a Joke & AQ has no Nuclear Scientists & Enginners
It will be because Pakistan may think that it can get away with plausible deniability. At least some people in responsible positions may believe that.
 

Agantrope

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& who knows about the Indian ABMs :p
It is a well known fact that India had help/assistance of the Israelis. We are ready to accept the fact over it. How abt your so called missile delivery systems??

With this im coming back to the topic and no more OTs

Loose nukes if available that will be of the Paks only. Also pak doesnt want to spoil its proliferation when they are seeking a Nuclear deal on the lines of India. This is quite un-imaginable.
 

DaRk WaVe

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It will be because Pakistan may think that it can get away with plausible deniability. At least some people in responsible positions may believe that.
what 'deniability', from where on God's Green Earth will OBL get people to make a suitcase Nuke & moreover we don't need any 'non state actor' to push the button for a Nuclear Weapon
 

ajtr

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The point is after india's experience with usa in David headley aka daud gilani case no nody knows the true demarcation between the people workig for CIA,ISI and various terrorist groups.One thing to remember is that all these terror groups were fathered by cia/isi way back in 1980s and till 2001 one they had healthy relations between all the three and still they are having contacts with in. Instead of mouthing platitiudes and self congratulations in fooling India with the "plea bargain" it might be useful to look up the Indian Counter Measure Doctrine about those who assist the enemies in carrying out nuke attacks on India.
 

Vinod2070

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what 'deniability', from where on God's Green Earth will OBL get people to make a suitcase Nuke & moreover we don't need any 'non state actor' to push the button for a Nuclear Weapon
It could be a dirty bomb!

You also have a 600,000 strong army but they chose to send the likes of LET and JEM to bomb market places and trains rather than fight it out. This would be for the same reason.
 

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