'Pak army no match for India's so we want more nukes'

[Yusuf]

Dark Sorrow,
Hiroshima and Nagasaki stand where there were before the A-bomb. Those cities were also built. Cities are built by its people. If the people suffer, who will build the cities? Epidemics of epic proportions will make sure no one will be there to build and inhabit the cities. Anyways, the cities too will be damaged while the sewage system is damaged and so is the water supply. I would rather do this than blow up some glass and concrete buildings which can be rebuilt. Epidemics are more difficult to handle. Imagine the resources required to control that and that too when you have just fought a devastating war and then just suffered a nuke strike. Guys think!!!! We dont have to show muscle and blow everything away when a carefully planned twist of an organ can do the job.

Tshering, if India does not go to Lahore, Pak will not have a reason to use its nukes. So no question of the nukes coming into the picture.

 

[pmaitra]

Tsar Bomba yield is 50MT. The standard strategic warhead of US is 1MT, China about 250-500KT. Test yield of Indian nuke 45KT. How are we to jump to 25MT?? Shash it does not work that way mate. The super powers made huge bombs to compensate for their inaccurate missiles. With better guided missiles, we dont need huge bombs. Agni series has one of the best CEP in the world.

If Pak uses nukes, it would mean it has lost a lot of territory. That means Indian army controls vast swathes of land in Pakistan. Are you going to nuke your own army? Think mate. The day Pak uses nukes it means India has broken pak up and also substantially degraded its army.

There is yet another possibility in this scenario. If India already controls large swathes of Pakistani territory, the US and other concerned foreign powers will definitely try to collaborate with India to carry out missions in Pakistan to secure their nukes. Hence, there will be a small window of time between when Pakistan has almost collapsed and when the remnants of the Pakistani state decides to use its nukes. If that window is used successfully, India wins the war and also does not get nuked.

 

[SHASH2K2]

More than use of nukes by pakistani army its proliferation of those nukes thats biggest concern for us . What if one of nuke or some fissile material is passed on to some terrorist organizations? A dirtynuclear bomb is far more dangerous that an actual nuke. but problem is that its very very difficult to monitor these kind of activity. What will be Indias response in case we have a confirmed report about terrorists having nukes in their possession? should we go for preemptive strike in this case?

 

[Yusuf]

Tshering,

India does not have the capability of taking out all of Pak nukes. We dont have the intel on it and also just as India and China does, Pak too keeps its nukes in component forms kept all over the place to increase its survivability. Warheads are in component form and also not mated with the missiles. So you have to hunt down all the locations of all the components and then all the missiles as well. Pretty much think that IAF would not be able to guarantee that it will completely incapacitate Pak nukes and also it does not have that kind of capability as well. All it can do is bomb the Kahuta and the Chashma centers but that is not going to do any good as all their nuke components are not stocked there.

 

[Yusuf]

More than use of nukes its proliferation of those nukes thats biggest concern for us . What if one of nuke or some fissile material is passed on to some terrorist organizations? A dirtynuclear bomb is far more dangerous that an actual nuke. but problem is that its very very difficult to monitor these kind of activity. What will be Indias response in case we have a confirmed report about terrorists having nukes in their possession? should we go for preemptive strike in this case?

If you have confirmed news of a terror org having nukes, against who will you launch a preemptive strike?
The solution to this problem is to hold Pakistan accountable for all its fissile material and that if anything leaks they will bear the consequences.

 

[Yusuf]

There is yet another possibility in this scenario. If India already controls large swathes of Pakistani territory, the US and other concerned foreign powers will definitely try to collaborate with India to carry out missions in Pakistan to secure their nukes. Hence, there will be a small window of time between when Pakistan has almost collapsed and when the remnants of the Pakistani state decides to use its nukes. If that window is used successfully, India wins the war and also does not get nuked.

Yup that is a scenario as well, but that depends on how well the US collaborates with India. The doctrine of Pak nuke launch is pretty clear they launch as soon as they lose land or are in the process of losing it and also its forces have suffered substantial losses.

 

[SHASH2K2]

If you have confirmed news of a terror org having nukes, against who will you launch a preemptive strike?
The solution to this problem is to hold Pakistan accountable for all its fissile material and that if anything leaks they will bear the consequences.

I am not sure if its included in our nuclear doctrine or not but situation like this should be definitely be included in that. If any nukes of Pakistan or China is used against us even by Non state actors they will have to pay the price.

 

[Yusuf]

I am not sure if its included in our nuclear doctrine or not but situation like this should be definitely be included in that. If any nukes of Pakistan or China is used against us even by Non state actors they will have to pay the price.

The US would do it as it has the power to do it. Hillary Clinton made it clear that the next terror attack on US soil will lead to consequences for pakistan so what would happen if a dirty bomb from Kahuta reaches New York.
But as far as India is concerned apart from a full scale war with the exchange of nukes always hanging, there is no other choice. That is if we don't start to exchange dossiers on this as well.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

More than use of nukes by pakistani army its proliferation of those nukes thats biggest concern for us . What if one of nuke or some fissile material is passed on to some terrorist organizations? A dirtynuclear bomb is far more dangerous that an actual nuke. but problem is that its very very difficult to monitor these kind of activity. What will be Indias response in case we have a confirmed report about terrorists having nukes in their possession? should we go for preemptive strike in this case?

Since terrorists do not have the technology to process and store fissile material the government needs to make a clear statement that a dirty bomb will get the same response as a nuke used against India,without proper intelligence how can preemptive strikes be conducted??

 

[Rahul Singh]

'Pak army no match for India's so we want more nukes'

Whenever i read or see something by Pakistanis on their nukes i get a feeling like Pakistanis believing they are USA and this 1945. Do Pakistanis think it is only they who have nukes? I understand 'mind-washing' but what kind of mind-washing is this that make them believe(by fooling themselves) that any nuke attack by Pakistan will not get response from Bharat. I wonder, what they feel when we launch weapons like ATV, submarine launched medium range balletic missiles etc?........ Even with these defensive arrangements --which are for only one purpose that is to "Hit Back-Wipe Them"-- i feel our nuke arsenals are well protected under hardened bunkers and deep storages against those 50kt yield nukes of China not counting those 12KT yield nukes of Pakistan.

 

[Patriot]

Tshering, if India does not go to Lahore, Pak will not have a reason to use its nukes. So no question of the nukes coming into the picture.

Once PAk is cornered by diplomacy or other means , PAK may use nukes against India through it's pet terrorist outfits which are nothings but headed by ex PAK army officers.

We should not follow the line that nukes can be used only in case of full fleged war scenario only.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Pak envoy defends nuke programme​

Pakistan's envoy in London lashed out on Wednesday at the recent WikiLeaks revelations about his country's nuclear programme, assuring it was safeguarded and slamming Western powers as hypocrites for saying otherwise. The fact that Western powers could not prevent the WikiLeaks release - which Kayani mulled toppling Zardari who had named successor
consisted of more than 200,000 US diplomatic cables containing diplomatic opinions on a variety of issues - would have negative consequences, Wajid Shamsul Hasan told BBC in an interview.
In particular, he rejected US and British concerns, laid out in the cables, that Pakistan's political situation was too unstable to guarantee safeguarding of its nuclear arsenal.

"We have every credential to safeguard our own nuclear arsenal," Hasan said, adding that Pakistan would not allow "interference" with its programmes.

The leaked US documents also questioned whether the Pakistani government was doing enough to effectively fight militants and Taliban agents operating in its territory, according to excerpts printed in the The Guardian newspaper.

 

[The Messiah]

Nuke wont always be the ultimate weapon. In time even they will be easily countered.

pakistan will always lose whether it uses nuke or not....that much is certain.

we have to make our air defense so strong that every pak missile shot down in air before reaching target then pak will have lost its most imp weapon.

 

[chex3009]

Pakistanis will resort to using Nukes only if a strategically important city, military unit or their nuclear facilities are threatened.

For fulfilling these scenarios a major part of IA will be inside the pakistani territory.

So in this case pakistan could go for strategic low yield tactical nukes of wiping off the armored cores or IA units. But before carrying out such thing, they would think twice to use nukes on their own land, as IA would be well inside their territory to hold those key positions where pakistanis might feel they are threatened.

So if they use tactical nukes, it would give India the green signal for the second and decisive strike. (But i doubt even here our political leaders have such courage to take such BIG decisions, like breaking pakistan into three or wipe them off) This would imply MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction), But if before such a scenario taking place, a well-planned special forces operation with Israel, U.S could save the day for India.

 

[utubekhiladi]

pakistan army or GOP or no one can assure that pakistani nuclear weapons are in safe hands and always safe guarded.

Noting that there are more than 120,000 people working in Pakistan's nuclear programme in and around the facilities, "Regardless of the clearance process for these people, there is no way to guarantee that all are 100% loyal and reliable." in pakistan people with "strict religious beliefs" had been hired to protect the nuclear facilities, giving extremist organisations more opportunities to recruit from within the programme.

i would not bet and take any chances on anti missile shields or anything like that. because the nuclear bomb can always smuggled into the country via Bangladesh or Nepal or via sea and can be detonated like a remote control bomb.

but again, after explosion should india strike back.., pakistan will be nothing but a ghost town. india will rise once again.

 

[Yusuf]

Chex pakistanis have only old design hiroshima yield bombs. their design is of the 70s and 80s. They don't have any separate tactical or strategic warheads. The yield of all their warheads is equal to the tactical warheads in US arsenal. But all of pakistani nukes are for the purpose of strategic use. They will bomb indian cities whenever they are going to use against india.
Their low yield bomb is the reason they have to make in quantity.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Chex pakistanis have only old design hiroshima yield bombs. their design is of the 70s and 80s. They don't have any separate tactical or strategic warheads. The yield of all their warheads is equal to the tactical warheads in US arsenal. But all of pakistani nukes are for the purpose of strategic use. They will bomb indian cities whenever they are going to use against india.
Their low yield bomb is the reason they have to make in quantity.

How will they produce in quantity when the are still using the uranium yellowcake route which takes 5 years?? Who will proliferate more centrifuges to them?(japan was responsible last time)

http://www.japantoday.com/category/...-played-key-role-in-pakistans-nuclear-program
Japanese firms played key role in Pakistan's nuclear program

 

[Ray]

To add to the kiteflying, here is another (dislcaimer: it has no bearing on any doctrines/ concept):

Why should Pakistan use tactical nuclear weapons on the Armd Div?

It will raise the ante and would invite retaliatory action, which will have no protestation from the international community. It could also be the end of the concept called Pakistan.

Instead, it would be easier and productive to release their 'strategic weapon' in the form of the Taliban terrorists to operate behind the wake of the Armd Div and cut off/ disrupt the 'tail' (logistic train, which is the lifeline) as also hit artillery gun positions. The chances of stopping the Armd Div in its trail would be feasible, and that too, through 'conventional' means, which will be accepted internationally as kosher !

Therefore, if the Armd Div aims at a shallower objective than what is to be achieved in a deep thrust, the area captured would have a higher density of the man machine mix and hence would have a greater response matrix, limiting damage by the Taliban like forces released to operate against the tail and the gun positions.

Thereafter, the inevitable ceasefire being forced will come. India having captured territory while restricting ingress elsewhere would have a greater clout at the bargaining table, and would also coming out smelling of roses that India had no plans to decimate Pakistan and instead wanted to 'teach them a lesson'. I am sure the 'teach them a lesson' line would find great support from the perennial lesson teacher - China.

Just a thought to let enthusiastic and unbridled thoughts afire!

 

[SHASH2K2]

How will they produce in quantity when the are still using the uranium yellowcake route which takes 5 years?? Who will proliferate more centrifuges to them?(japan was responsible last time)

http://www.japantoday.com/category/...-played-key-role-in-pakistans-nuclear-program
Japanese firms played key role in Pakistan's nuclear program

Its Japan which proclaim itself as anti nuclearBomb campaign leader . They are the ones who are forcing India with its impeccable record to sign CTBT and on the other hand are supplying centrifuge to Pakistanis. what an hypocrisy .

 

[Yusuf]

LF they have moved to making plutonium in their Khushab reactor. What it means that there was more proliferation from china to provide pak with designs of plutonium based weapons. And this has happened during the WoT which means the US once again winked at pak china nuke nexus.