P Sundarajan is new Google CEO

roma

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he is an american citizen guys .....................
Sure we need but it's not gonna happen overnight.It's hardly a decade of internet that all this tech boom has started.

It's a big thing if an NRI type becomes CEO of biggies like MS/Google since it inspires a lot of people back home in India.We need to come out of the "serving" attitude and start innovation and investment.

There are lot of small startups coming up though not big but we would catch up slowly.This would also need a good backing by Govt which wants homegrown stuff.The current Govt has shown it's intrest toward this direction unlike previous one.
i agree ..... the guy has has rights to be a usa citizen ....... but the inspiration and confidence his good example is gonna generate for indian grads especially in the engineering fields will be worth a great deal ....

plus all those china inspired and very cleverly instigated by china, rankings of universities, where not one indian university came within the first 100 .....well those rankings can go to you know where !
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CrYsIs

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we have had housing.com and flipkart so there are some successes ...... hopefully more would follow.
Flipkart is a rare success (even though currently it's not doing too well financially) but the major obstacle to opening such companies are the fact that India does not have a large consumer base.

According to Mckinsey report only 10 million people have the capability to buy anything at malls and less than 3% of Indians are actual purchasing power middle class ie have enough cash to buy things other than bare necessities.

If you have a country with a very insignificant purchasing power population,you cannot expect a rapid growth in service sector companies.
 

rock127

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Flipkart is a rare success (even though currently it's not doing too well financially) but the major obstacle to opening such companies are the fact that India does not have a large consumer base.

According to Mckinsey report only 10 million people have the capability to buy anything at malls and less than 3% of Indians are actual purchasing power middle class ie have enough cash to buy things other than bare necessities.

If you have a country with a very insignificant purchasing power population,you cannot expect a rapid growth in service sector companies.
There are some malls who caters to middle and lower middle class and value-for-money.For example Vishaal Mega Mart.These malls needs to be promoted well.When it comes to proper Marketing & Branding we need to do much.

To be honest I would not like to spend thousands of Rs for a so called "branded" stuff in a high-end mall which is not even close to it's value.If one is rich OR has stacked lot of black money OR simply wanna waste money then the high end Malls are a good choice.
 

DingDong

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Indians celebrating an Indian Americans' success is like UK basking under USA's glory. Google is an American company, it's CEO decided to leave India forever and take US citizenship for a reason.

We must ask ourselves why we haven't be able to build anything like google. Even the so-called Indian VCs are chasing easy money (investing in e-Commerce huh!).
 

prohumanity

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India need to have its own search engine. Google is NOT an India company. In times of conflict, Google is not going to serve India's interest even though a NRI becomes CEO.
Sometimes, this is facade to choose an Indian face but that does not mean that "they" have India's interest in their mind. It can be subtle deception and way to attract more Indian talents to foreign lands.
When would India learn to put oil in its own head ?
 

Bangalorean

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we have had housing.com and flipkart so there are some successes ...... hopefully more would follow.
If Flipkart and Housing are successes, I can list a hundred more. There's Paytm, Snapdeal, Bookmyshow, commonfloor, Bigbasket, Ola, makemytrip, Yatra, Mu Sigma, Freecharge, Redbus, InMobi, Taxi4Sure, Vedantu, Haptik, CouponDunia, TeliBrahma, MobiKwik, QuikWallet, ZopNow, Juspay, InstaMojo.

Oh damn, this list can go on for pages.

@DingDong, its not just e-commerce companies which are getting funded. Data analytics, Cab aggregators and other transport solutions, education, travel aggregators, mobile payment companies - all of them are getting funded by VCs.

@CrYsIs, shitty analysis. There is always scope to innovate and disrupt in the context of your unique operating conditions. Redbus was something that would never have worked in the West. It was a unique India-centric solution, and it worked beautifully. Now you can't imagine life without Redbus. Bookmyshow was a great concept too, and they're doing really well. Online recharge is doing just fine too.

What you need to understand is, there are some sectors that can be disrupted even in prevailing conditions. Think digital wallets for the unbanked. Think regional-language entertainment on low-bandwidth internet. Think local-language easy-interface ticket bookings in peri-urban areas.

When Big Bazaar first came up, there were lots like you who snootily wrote it off and said that Kirana stores would forever be the shopping destination of choice for the unwashed masses, and you would never get drivers/maids/carpenter types to shop in an "intimidating" brick and mortar store. Boy, how they were proved wrong. Look at the crowd in Big Bazaar. Your neighbourhood vegetable seller is as likely to patronize Big Bazaar as your boss.

And has it occurred to you that there are several sectors that are thoroughly dominated by foreign players? Think payment networks (Master, Visa, Amex). We have our sarkari RuPay which isn't getting anywhere because, well - its sarkari. If you can offer merchants and banks a TDR of 0.4% or lower on your payment network, you're in business. Now don't go and try this, its a massively expensive and tough venture and requires lot of muscle - just giving you an example of entrepreneurship to replace foreign monopolies.

And by the way, the real number is closer to 7%, and not 3%, whatever the farts in McKinsey say. That comes to 91 million, growing at around 5% per annum. Not bad you know - larger than most European nations, and growing year on year.
 

Bangalorean

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By the way, not many people can comprehend the scale and scope of the India story. This is so phenomenal and gargantuan, it defies most people's imagination. Only a fool would not want a part of the India pie. Let us break it down mathematically and simply.

India's middle-class is 90 million in size. No, it isn't 300 million unless you count autowallahs etc. in the "middle class", which we can't really do with a straight face. Let us take the number as 90 million which is a reasonable and well-accepted number.

This is growing at the rate of 5% per annum, and this is a conservative lower-side estimate. If you don't trust any data and want to redo all calculations by yourself, just look at the purchase history of various typically middle-class goods (scooters and bikes, TVs, smartphones, laptops, washing machines, cars, apartments, high speed broadband connections, fine dining restaurant spending, etc.). 5% is perfectly reasonable.

Now, this means the national middle class is growing by 4.5 million every year. Assuming that the real middle-class population of Bangalore+Pune is 4.5 million (out of total population of 15 million) - again a very reasonable and conservative number - we are talking about adding one Pune PLUS one Bangalore EVERY YEAR.

Let that sink in for a moment. This means, there is sufficient demand for 30 new malls EVERY YEAR. There is sufficient demand for 1000 new vehicles EVERY DAY (and this target is being breached all the time - there are actually nearly 8000 new vehicles sold every day all over India). There is sufficient demand for 4 lakh very high speed broadband connections every year, minimum. There is sufficient demand for 4 MILLION new laptops every year, at the very least.

I could go on. Essentially, think of Bangalore+Pune, think of all the goods, services and establishments in these two cities and realize that these many, in total, are created EVERY YEAR, year after year. Only a thorough ass would not want a slice of the pie. Everyone with some common sense is going to make a beeline for India - the fun is just starting.
 

blueblood

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@DingDong , celebrating an individual's success abroad is not the only way to look at it.

It is the celebration of an idea that Indians can accomplish extra-ordinary feats when given a level playing field, something which is not present here and a huge slap to the face of Indian political and bureaucratic establishment regardless of party in power.
 

CrYsIs

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By the way, not many people can comprehend the scale and scope of the India story. This is so phenomenal and gargantuan, it defies most people's imagination. Only a fool would not want a part of the India pie. Let us break it down mathematically and simply.

India's middle-class is 90 million in size. No, it isn't 300 million unless you count autowallahs etc. in the "middle class", which we can't really do with a straight face. Let us take the number as 90 million which is a reasonable and well-accepted number.

This is growing at the rate of 5% per annum, and this is a conservative lower-side estimate. If you don't trust any data and want to redo all calculations by yourself, just look at the purchase history of various typically middle-class goods (scooters and bikes, TVs, smartphones, laptops, washing machines, cars, apartments, high speed broadband connections, fine dining restaurant spending, etc.). 5% is perfectly reasonable.

Now, this means the national middle class is growing by 4.5 million every year. Assuming that the real middle-class population of Bangalore+Pune is 4.5 million (out of total population of 15 million) - again a very reasonable and conservative number - we are talking about adding one Pune PLUS one Bangalore EVERY YEAR.

Let that sink in for a moment. This means, there is sufficient demand for 30 new malls EVERY YEAR. There is sufficient demand for 1000 new vehicles EVERY DAY (and this target is being breached all the time - there are actually nearly 8000 new vehicles sold every day all over India). There is sufficient demand for 4 lakh very high speed broadband connections every year, minimum. There is sufficient demand for 4 MILLION new laptops every year, at the very least.

I could go on. Essentially, think of Bangalore+Pune, think of all the goods, services and establishments in these two cities and realize that these many, in total, are created EVERY YEAR, year after year. Only a thorough ass would not want a slice of the pie. Everyone with some common sense is going to make a beeline for India - the fun is just starting.
According to PEW research data,middle class in India is around just 2-3% of the population.In contrast low income and poor make up almost 95% of the population.Even in this 2-3%,just around 1% make up the upper middle class.According to PEW, a family of 4 living on more than Rs 18,000 a month is in the middle class.




The research also pointed out that the notion of India having a big middle class arises from the fact that many in India are mislead into believing that they are a part of the middle class.

This is very much in line with the Census data of 2011 which shows that only 4.6 per cent of India's population has ownership of all four assets - television, computer/laptop, scooter/car and telephone/ mobile phone.

As far as malls are concerned they are not doing well.



This is simply because very few people have disposable incomes to goto malls,no wonder why so many malls are being sold or converted to offices.
 

CrYsIs

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There are some malls who caters to middle and lower middle class and value-for-money.For example Vishaal Mega Mart.These malls needs to be promoted well.When it comes to proper Marketing & Branding we need to do much.

To be honest I would not like to spend thousands of Rs for a so called "branded" stuff in a high-end mall which is not even close to it's value.If one is rich OR has stacked lot of black money OR simply wanna waste money then the high end Malls are a good choice.
Vishal Megamart or Bigbazaar are hypermarkets and not malls.

Malls will not work in India until and unless people have disposable incomes.
 

prohumanity

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The definition of middle class differs based on who is defining it. Western mega corporation's definition is based on people who can afford to buy Ford cars, apple phones and other expensive stuff because they calculate how much profits they can make in India by selling their costly products.
Indian midsize and small companies are selling cheaper products which are used by Indian people on daily basis so their definition is anyone who can afford their products.
I agree that Indian consumer market is and going to be gigantic..no doubt about it. Afterall, how many nations in World have 1.3 billion human beings ?
 

Bangalorean

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@CrYsIs

This Pew-shew stuff is bullshit. Estimates for India's middle-class vary from 1% of the population, all the way up to 300 million people. The former figure takes Western consumption levels and converts dollar values into INR to obtain that ridiculously low figure. The latter figure includes autowallahs, plumbers, etc. as part of the middle-class.

So, first define what "middle-class" means. According to most sane definitions, you can fairly define as middle class, any family which has simultaneous ownership of at least 4 of the following assets: automobile, television, phone, computer, consumer durable (washing machine, microwave, etc.).

But wait - this is what you said. In 2011, you claim (as the census says), that 4.6% Indians could be fairly qualified as middle class. With a growth rate of 5%, today that figure is closer to 5.5%. Don't believe me, check out sales of the aforementioned consumer durables etc., factor in repeat buyers and subtract them, you will get your numbers.

And that is approximately the same number I used to begin with, while creating my projections. So really, what is your gripe with the figures here? It does tally perfectly well.

Coming to your concern regarding malls. Personally, I have never purchased stuff in malls except for food, parking, movies and occasionally clothes (very rarely). Now don't tell me that I have also been "misled into believing that I am part of the middle class".

1. Maybe malls will not be as successful due to Indian consumer preferences, the same way so many business and retail concepts fail all over the world - like Wal-Mart failed in Germany.

2. Maybe there is an saturation due to overcapacity. Which is something that happens in all businesses. When a line of business does well there will be a dozen more "me-too" imitators and capacity increases far more than demand. Note however, that in this case, the overcapacity will be absorbed soon, for those malls which can stick it out and dig their heels in for a little while longer.

3. When I spoke of us "adding one Bangalore + Pune" every year, it was obviously an aggregated high level figure. These new middle-class fellows are not co-located in geographical proximity. You have some new middle-class entrants in NCR, some in Lukhnnow, some in Beed, some in Patna and some in Begusarai.

Point 3 illustrates that using "health of malls" to gauge growth of middle-class, is a silly endeavor. It just doesn't make sense. In cases where there is no geographical co-location of individuals, you are better off measuring good consumption instead of malls.
 

Compersion

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instead of leading are we able to make a google, microsoft etc etc on our own ...

some say it is needed to have indians lead because of the many indian workforce and keep them with motivation that they can reach the top ...

that hotmail guy had a google in his pocket sold out too early it seems but still a lot of money when he did.
 

CrYsIs

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@CrYsIs

This Pew-shew stuff is bullshit. Estimates for India's middle-class vary from 1% of the population, all the way up to 300 million people. The former figure takes Western consumption levels and converts dollar values into INR to obtain that ridiculously low figure. The latter figure includes autowallahs, plumbers, etc. as part of the middle-class.

So, first define what "middle-class" means. According to most sane definitions, you can fairly define as middle class, any family which has simultaneous ownership of at least 4 of the following assets: automobile, television, phone, computer, consumer durable (washing machine, microwave, etc.).
The PEW research clearly shows that just 3% of Indian families earn more than Rs 18,000 and hence qualify to be called a middle class.

Even this definition of Rs 18,000 is a very liberal definition,meaning Rs 4500 per individual.You can live with this kind of money only in villages because it is not even fit to lead a middle class life in a Tire 3 city.

And PEW is not bringing stats from air.Their stats are perfectly in sync with what all others like ADB,McKinsley and WB were saying.

Only NCAER( National Council of Applied Economic Research) gave a high estimate of nearly 200 million,but their definition of middle class is even more low,almost blurring the line between poor and middle class.


And there is a very logical reason why India has not been able to create a large middle class.It's simply because we have a very weak industrial sector.We have an economy which is dominated by services and specifically service sectors like IT which caters to mostly the elite sections of the society.So most of the 3% middle class that you see today are the former 1% middle class of the 90's who have now expanded to 3%.
The poor have mostly managed to uplift themselves to low income group.

But wait - this is what you said. In 2011, you claim (as the census says), that 4.6% Indians could be fairly qualified as middle class. With a growth rate of 5%, today that figure is closer to 5.5%. Don't believe me, check out sales of the aforementioned consumer durables etc., factor in repeat buyers and subtract them, you will get your numbers.
Even if 5%,instead of 3% are in the middle class,it doesn't mean much because majority of the middle class are in the lower end with very little spending power.In-case of economic shocks they will revert back to low income group.
 

ezsasa

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The PEW research clearly shows that just 3% of Indian families earn more than Rs 18,000 and hence qualify to be called a middle class.

Even this definition of Rs 18,000 is a very liberal definition,meaning Rs 4500 per individual.You can live with this kind of money only in villages because it is not even fit to lead a middle class life in a Tire 3 city.

And PEW is not bringing stats from air.Their stats are perfectly in sync with what all others like ADB,McKinsley and WB were saying.

Only NCAER( National Council of Applied Economic Research) gave a high estimate of nearly 200 million,but their definition of middle class is even more low,almost blurring the line between poor and middle class.


And there is a very logical reason why India has not been able to create a large middle class.It's simply because we have a very weak industrial sector.We have an economy which is dominated by services and specifically service sectors like IT which caters to mostly the elite sections of the society.So most of the 3% middle class that you see today are the former 1% middle class of the 90's who have now expanded to 3%.
The poor have mostly managed to uplift themselves to low income group.



Even if 5%,instead of 3% are in the middle class,it doesn't mean much because majority of the middle class are in the lower end with very little spending power.In-case of economic shocks they will revert back to low income group.
Which year is this PEW research for?
Somehow I don't buy this number, 3% would means only around 4 crores are earning more than 18k per month.
 

Bangalorean

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@CrYsIs

First tell me, is your PEW "research" referring to number of PEOPLE in the middle class (3% of Indian people) or number of FAMILIES in the middle class (3% of Indian families)? Your fancy bar graph seemed to speak about people, which means only 4 crore people in middle class. But in later posts you are talking about families, which means 15-16 crore in middle class. In other words, 160 million people in middle class.

First clarify what you mean.
 

ezsasa

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Income growth has been on the rise. In 2014, the average Indian household income was Rs 3.35 lakh compared to Rs 2.19 lakh in 2005. The richest households (the top 20%) had an average income of Rs 6.69 lakh compared to Rs 5.19 lakh nearly a decade ago. The lowest income households (the bottom 20%) too had increased their income from Rs 64,137 in 2005 to Rs 1,36,708 in 2014. While the poorest households are still in rural areas (83%), the interesting fact is that nearly 45% of the richest households too live in rural India.

http://www.financialexpress.com/art...ing-the-path-towards-inclusive-growth/117111/

At 3.35 lakh, average income overall will be around 28000 per month per household. This PEW 18k number seems to be based on 2005 numbers.
 

Bangalorean

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Right @ezsasa, the statistics being thrown around by @CrYsIs definitely stink. Like they say, "95% of all statistics are manufactured on the spot".

If one claims that any family earning above 18000 is "middle class", then your national middle-class is close to 300 million. If one claims that any PERSON earning above 18000 is "middle class" (completely ignoring housewives and children), then the national middle-class is close to 80 million (out of a base size of 600 million, since housewives and kids have been ignored).

You just cannot claim on the one hand that 18K is the definition for middle-class, and then claim that only 3% of PEOPLE in India out of 1300 million are middle-class. The figures don't tally, it defies common sense and has more holes than a sieve.
 

Mad Indian

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:lol:

@ezsasa and @Bangalorean I just got to give to you guys on how much effort you two seem to be putting. But let me say this right now, before the threads runs to 20 more pages of discussion worth nothing(and it will if you keep feeding the troll), no amount of statistics or truth is going to stop a self hating loser with an agenda(probably to save his job at an NGO which exists at the expense of other's misery and poverty?). Just recall that even the rape statistics from UN dint convince that moron few months back. I dont know what you guys are trying for.

But Kudos. Such pathetic propaganda and self hate should be countered. props for you guys. Sincerely!

That aside, @Bangalorean. I dont know why you would want to discount "autowallahs" as middle class. Do you know the salary of the drivers and autodrivers in Chennai for instance? They earn anywhere between 15000Rs.-30000Rs. per month based on how much they work. That should atleast constitute as "lower middle class " right?
 

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