OROP: Pension promise in peril?

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Ray, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It will never get resolved so long as the petty minions in the bureaucracy are active like rats in the larder.

    Some issue they will throw up that will put the spanner in the works.

    This in quotes is what is stated in the TOI print version. (paraphrased)
     
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  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    In form of Image ..

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
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  4. pkroyal

    pkroyal Regular Member

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    The BJP Govt is fast running out of options.

    No obfuscation of this issue( OROP) is going to be tolerated by the veterans.

    The RM has 08 weeks to deliver on this promise ( probably before the Union budget), I guess it could be on 26 January 15.

    After comparing ourselves with the world armies we are being given a raw deal.

    Let the soldier live with dignity after retirement, the Govt will be well served to remember that the Lion in Winter( old age) is more ferocious than when young.
     
  5. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bureaucracy might stall the process but it will happen. BJP cannot renegade on poll promises and think of winning another election on nationalist plank.
     
  6. NSG_Blackcats

    NSG_Blackcats Member of The Month OCTOBER 2009 Senior Member

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    Defense Minister on OROP - from 14:26 min onwards

    1. He will try to implement OROP by 31-03-2015, if not than max by July-2015.
    2. The amount will be paid from back date and that is 01-04-2014.
    3. The back log amount might be paid in installments.
    4. There are different figure on expenditure that GoI have to incur. It varies from 600-14000 crore. As per his calculation/assumption GoI might have to incur an additional 8000-9000 crore.
    5. Clarified his 80% remark. The 80% was not about pension but satisfaction level. As for him, if he is able to satisfy 80% of retired defense personal and widows than the promise is fulfilled.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  7. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    As per reports a few days back Def Ministry is shaving off nearly Rs. 14,500 Crores from the budget of the three forces and this would be going in for the OROP.

    I am not able to find the report, somebody had linked it on FB.

    Got the report it is from the Telegraph, Kolkata

    Link : Rs 13000cr shaved off military weapons outlays
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    There is an interesting point that has been holding up the OROP so far.

    The bureaucrats want One Rank, One Pension to be based on the time period that one has held that rank, namely, even if, say A and B, joined the service on the same day, and retired on the same day, the pension would vary, based on how long they held the rank. If A was promoted earlier than B, then A would get a higher pension than B.

    The Army states that period in that rank is not material since there are reasons (as I will explain below) wherein A may have been promoted earlier than B, but the pension should be the same.

    The Army's argument is based on the fact that JCOs and OR of different Regiments and even different unit have different time slots for promotions, since they are vacancy based of that unit in particular and the Regiment in general.

    Therefore, if one, say Hav C, is in a unit where there is a slow promotion profile [since it is based on vacancies and people are not retiring rapidly enough (people leave once their full colour service is over vis a vis some leaving immediately on having enough service to get a pension) ] vis a vis, say Hav D, from another unit where the promotion profile is faster (people leaving immediately on minimum pensionable service), then Hav D is better off getting a higher pension because he would have been promoted earlier, as his some of his seniors would have left the service immediately on attaining minimum pensionable service. Hav C would be the loser for no fault of his just because his seniors did not quit immediately on attaining minimum pensionable service and instead went on till they attained the full colour service of the rank before the vacancy could be created wherein C could be promoted to the rank of Hav.

    The sum total is that promotions are vacancy based. It is based on the unit and its vacancy and even in that it is different by the Regiment apart from the unit. There is no All India roster that manages promotions.

    An All India roster cannot be done because each Arm and Service have different requirement and different job profile. An Infantry soldier cannot become a Missile technician in the EME.

    Further, for the Arms, unit cohesiveness is what builds the camaraderie and understanding of each other which are battle winning factors. If let us say it was based on pure numbers and people could be shifted from one Regiment to another and unit to unit, it would not have an effective battle cohesiveness that is essential when facing death in the battlefield. This is more so because India has a huge armed forces and with a live threat and live confrontations that are continuously ongoing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2015
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  9. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yup I remember the article, as far as my recollection goes, the amount is reduced from weapons purchase and added to improve infrastructure at cantonments and schools for defence children.
     
  10. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Government will keep its promise of one rank, one pension: Union minister Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore

    Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore | Jan 11, 2015, 06.10AM IST

    Government will keep its promise of one rank, one pension: Union minister Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore - The Times of India


    If social media enhances and expedites reach, it also exposes people twice as fast. I recently came across an online article on 'One Rank, One Pension' (OROP) written by a suave former diplomat-turned-politician, which had little thought and no action behind it. To counter the breakout of Modi sarkar (military lingo for rapid expansion), the self-styled generals of Congress have been scoring countless self goals. As I write, I look up intermittently to skim through the TV news channels, and see the Congress taking the contrarian view on the 'Pakistan boat issue' demonstrating a decade-old mentality -- wait for Delhi to sanction action. Old habits die hard.

    That is not how the Indian military and paramilitary have been trained. Being one of the best and most selfless in the world, a warrior's code of conduct is driven by his 'farz' or duty, honour of his 'Paltan', and his nation's 'izzat'. The monthly remuneration can in no way compensate these sacrifices, as a soldier routinely and regularly goes beyond the call of duty for the 'izzat' he holds so dear. And this fact is closest to the heart of the BJP.

    BJP has a common thread with the armed forces -- that of the ideology of nation first. Narendra Modi declared his commitment to stand by servicemen, veterans and OROP at a rally in Rewari in 2013. Congress, sensing a potential vote bank did not want to miss the bus so they hurriedly announced OROP and dished out a meagre sum towards it. Therein lies the difference, the uniformed forces are not a vote bank but a value bank for us. Our defence minister went on record, committing to deliver OROP and the finance minister did so in his budget speech. Assurances on the floor of the House are sacrosanct and only in rare circumstances does their completion go a little beyond the financial year. The departments involved in OROP are defence, defence finance, finance and personnel. To get them to speak in one voice and have one view may take time but it will be done. This in itself may lower the satisfaction levels of a few impatient ones and that's when the defence minister spoke of delivering 80% satisfaction he did not say 80% pension. When we have waited for decades, what's a few months more? The armed forces can rest assured that the OROP is perfectly within the credible sights of the PM, FM and 'RM' of this government.



    So what's taking time? OROP implies an officer of the same number of years of service and same rank gets the same pension irrespective of the year of retirement. But officers with the same years of service and same rank do not usually get the same salary. This is due to the number of years spent in each rank, or in other words, because of staggered promotion. For example, one colonel could spend more time in the rank of 'colonel' while another colonel may take longer to reach the rank, thus getting less time in the rank of colonel itself. Both may have the same number of total years of military service, but their salary itself will be different.

    The one reaching colonel first gets a higher salary. Since pension itself is a derivative of salary, pensions will be different too. There will be thousands of variations in each rank, and we have not even begun counting. This is just one of the many challenges but the government is committed to finding a solution and, without penalising anyone, bringing in a harmonious and simple methodology for calculation of pensions as prescribed in the spirit of OROP. Will my honourable colleagues from the Opposition show some patience and wait for the end of the financial year or will they play spoilsport?

    It is in this government that the service chiefs have direct access to the political leadership. In the first 200 days itself, meetings between civil and military leadership far outnumber the total number of meetings held in the last decade of UPA. Protocols are for formal occasions; when the tigers meet, the lambs have no place. Supremacy is of leadership; military and then political, period.

    This government has faith in every field commander and soldier to do what's right for the country. Congress weakened the armed forces, reduced fighting capability. Its political indecisiveness and hesitation dulled the sharpness and led to beheadings, embarrassment and lowered morale. In 200 days, critical procurements stuck for the last several years have been cleared. Our responses on the border are with befitting ferocity. War memorial ordered. OROP will be delivered. Modi was also the first PM to celebrate Diwali with soldiers in field.

    Congress needs to stop doubting the veracity of the very forces that protect us. They are indeed the wall between heaven and hell. It's thanks to social media that citizens pay rich tributes to our warriors in uniform. And it's from the social media I quote for the benefit of my Congress colleagues: "If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them".
     
  11. indiatester

    indiatester Regular Member

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    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ed-Parrikar/articleshow/47314463.cms?from=mdr
    'One rank, one pension' cleared: Parrikar
    [​IMG]
    Union Minister for Defence, Shri Manohar Parrikar and the Chief of Army Staff, General Dalbir Singh visiting the Red Horns Division, in Assam. (PTI photo)

    PANAJI: The much-awaited "one rank, one pension" (OROP) for the armed forces is likely to be cleared in a few days, defence minister Manohar Parrikar said in Goa on Saturday.

    "OROP proposal is in final stage. The defence ministry has approved it and the finance ministry will clear it in a few days," he added.

    He said it is the first time that a clear proposal has been sent to finance ministry on OROP.

    An estimated Rs 8,000 crore is likely to be allocated by the government to fulfill its commitment to the over 25 lakh ex-servicemen, who have been demanding OROP for several years.
     
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  12. TejasMK3

    TejasMK3 Regular Member

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    http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/orop-storm-set-to-hit-government

    Ex-servicemen's groups are mobilising veterans to launch a nationwide agitation against the Narendra Modi government from 14 June over the non-implementation of One Rank One Pension (OROP) for retired soldiers. The agitation threatens to strike a blow at the heart of the ruling BJP's nationalist politics and fan the very damaging impression that the government is letting down the Indian soldier, widely believed to be a BJP constituency.

    Chairman of the Indian Ex-Servicemen's Movement, Major General Satbir Singh (Retired) told The Sunday Guardian that the nationwide agitation would start with a rally at Jantar Mantar, followed by hunger strikes across the country "forever to protest the injustice to the soldier".

    "We'll protest like hell. We may even boycott all government functions, including the 26 January Republic Day Parade," thundered Major General Singh. The government got a taste of the military discontent this week, when a 1971 war hero, Wing Commander Suresh Karnik declined to attend a function presided over by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar at Pune to honour war heroes.

    India has 24 lakh ex-servicemen, six-and-a-half lakh widows, and 15 lakh serving military personnel. They command influence and respect in their respective areas.

    Realising the political damage this can result in, Prime Minister Narendra Modi took to Twitter on Saturday to address the gathering storm. "On OROP — the Government is committed to OROP & there's no doubt about it," he stated. The problem is that this commitment has been expressed so many times that it now fails to pacify angry veterans.

    Only a day earlier, PM Modi's Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said he was not in a position to specify a time frame for the implementation of OROP, which will ensure equal pension for the same rank and same length of military service. If implemented, it is expected to cost the national exchequer Rs 8,300 crore this year.

    “We’ll protest like hell. We may even boycott all government functions, including the 26 January Republic Day Parade,” thundered Major General (Retired) Satbir Singh.

    Parrikar confessed that both the Congress and the BJP had promised OROP, without realising the im-plications. "The people who promised earlier (Congress-UPA government) did not understand the OROP problem. They promised OROP, but did not understand the requirement and just allocated Rs 500 crore," he said, conceding that even the BJP was equally culpable. "We did not understand the fine print," he shrugged while addressing a gathering at Mumbai.

    The exchequer's worry is that once OROP is conceded to the armed forces, the paramilitary forces will make the same demand.

    But the bigger concern is about the political-style agitation by the veterans to press their demands, and the realisation that the in-service military is sympathetic to it. "At a recent public rally in Haryana, the Army chief had assured ex-servicemen of implementation of OROP by April. The government has let down the Army chief and embarrassed him," said Major General Singh, admitting that "in-service military personnel are even more hurt". He said that the OROP movement "reflects their feelings".

    Successive regimes so far have not had to contend with the military community being a political factor. But the military has now emerged as a pressure group to demand more, with ex-servicemen being an agitation proxy.

    Another big worry is over the fallout of an emotive agitation, like the impact of the reported suicide by a farmer during a recent rally in New Delhi against the Land Bill. There are also fears of violence. But the Ex-Servicemen's Movement dismisses these apprehensions. "Our protest will be disciplined and dignified," it states. But this assurance comes with a warning: "We'll remain disciplined but protest like hell."
     
  13. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Wonder why they did not protest for 40 years. Why only against modi?
     
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  14. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    most probably because the expectations, to begin with, were very high with this govt., and in particular, with the leader.

    but this is confusing. on one hand the govt. has cleared the proposal and is expecting to pass the OROP plan by this July, and on the other hand these contradicting statements and the protests....!
     
  15. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Mostly done by Punjabi AAPtards. i guess.
     
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  16. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Actually it easy. Some people have failed to discomfort this govt. over other issues and so they are putting the ex-servicemen to the foray now. Also they wish to take away the actual credit of modi govt for implementing the OROP as all knows it is only a matter of time before it is implemented. Now your guess is as good as mine regarding the interested parties. But it is rather disheartening to see the ex-servicemen not recognising it and maring image of the one govt which as actually taken up this cause seriously.
     
  17. TejasMK3

    TejasMK3 Regular Member

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    I think it's a combination of both disappointment and politics at play here. DM said his self imposed deadline (the interview with Karan Thapar) was around April-May and while the Defence ministry has cleared it (post no 10) it is now stuck in finance I guess. Then there was news reported in some media outlets about "no particular deadline" for the roll out, and of course politics will be played. Everyone from Congress to AAP are shouting, Gul Panags dad has been very vocal (calling Modi Hitler, abusing etc). So as an after effect now they will say that they had to pressurize
     
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  18. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Can you please post that discussion where Gul Panag's father was calling Modi Hitler ? If it is true then I wonder how these people even make it to TV channels or even pretend to be experts. I think he is on the forum as well but not sure what ID he uses.

    Regards
     
  19. TejasMK3

    TejasMK3 Regular Member

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    Just go through his tweets in general, you can see this sort of thing.
     
  20. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Do we really need OROP?

    Correct me if I am wrong. OROP will mean guys who serve army for 10 years and another who served for 20 years but retire at same rank will get same pension. Right now, the guy who worked for 20 years will be earning higher pension due to various pay commissions and higher salary at the time of his retirement.

    Now the army wants everyone to have same pension. I think it is unfair to the person who worked for longer years.
     
  21. indiatester

    indiatester Regular Member

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    But that's not completely true.
    Right now, for an ex-service man, once they retire, their pension is not kept upto date like that of other civilian govt positions. That is being corrected now.
    The difference in service period in a rank will be taken into consideration.
     

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