Number of balistic missiles

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John

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K firstly Brahmos-2 is being completely made in India including its scramjet which was tested in vizag last year at hit speeds of mach 5.26 in the lab in the first run. Yes offcourse the Russians help in design and other aspects the missile itself will be built entirely in India, Russia i believe will get smaller, low range version of brahmos-2. India will certainly get a missile with a range of at least 600km or more with honest estimates reaching as high 1200km. secondly the S-400 is not the longest range SAM but the AEGIS SM-3, it has an operational range of over 270NM or 500km, it is effective against ballistic missiles, ASAT but is just as effective against fighters. Either way i think we also need a mini-brahmos with range of around 150km SEAD and DEAD missions, will be lighter can be deployed from mirage, jags, LCA etc. This missile would find more export interest as well and we do lack local home made anti-sam and radar missiles.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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I have a very Genuine question if someone can answer that, is Agni 1 or Agni 2 operational in real sense. I am hearing lot of conflicting info and do not want us to be caught pants down, in case a war broke out. A very concerned man.
 

SATISH

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I have a very Genuine question if someone can answer that, is Agni 1 or Agni 2 operational in real sense. I am hearing lot of conflicting info and do not want us to be caught pants down, in case a war broke out. A very concerned man.
Yes Agni I and Agni II are operational as of late 2007. It is Agni III which is yet to undergo user trials and after that it will enter service most realistically by 2011. Ballistic missiles are mostly strategic weapons. They are too costly too hence not many will be built. Cruise missiles are the most used battle field weapons than BMs.
 

SATISH

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surya icbm project exist or not?
Everything is still on the drawing board. But as usual the bureaucrats limited the range of our BM to 5000 Km. Hence the project is scrapped.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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Yes Agni I and Agni II are operational as of late 2007. It is Agni III which is yet to undergo user trials and after that it will enter service most realistically by 2011. Ballistic missiles are mostly strategic weapons. They are too costly too hence not many will be built. Cruise missiles are the most used battle field weapons than BMs.
I seriously do not understand this, maybe my brain is too naive. When war breaks out countries will like to destroy critical targets deep in enemy territory

i.e. we might want to hit airbase, radars, bridges etc. Why should we use Ballistic missiles with only nuclear warhead. In my understanding we do not even know if nuclear warhead will ever be used. So shall we then not wasting so many missiles for no use.

I feel best use will be to load them with conventional weapon and have many of them, when war breaks out, first target should be radars and bridges of enemy.
 

mattster

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I'm not 100% sure but I think the answer to your question is that "ballistic missiles" by definition enter outer space and then re-enter the earth's atmosphere......so the moment you fire a misslle that goes out of space and re-enters the atmosphere pointing towards a certain country - that country will automatically assume that it is a nuke regardless of whether it is a nuke or not.

So they are probably going to retaliate with nukes as soon as their radars detect it even if your missiles are not nukes.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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Let me rephrase my question. What missiles will we fire for targets like radar and bridges if the answer is cruise then our range is 299 - 100 for distance till border.
 

Dark Sorrow

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I seriously do not understand this, maybe my brain is too naive. When war breaks out countries will like to destroy critical targets deep in enemy territory

i.e. we might want to hit airbase, radars, bridges etc. Why should we use Ballistic missiles with only nuclear warhead. In my understanding we do not even know if nuclear warhead will ever be used. So shall we then not wasting so many missiles for no use.

I feel best use will be to load them with conventional weapon and have many of them, when war breaks out, first target should be radars and bridges of enemy.
The biggest problem with BM is accuracy. BM are very inaccurate when hitting targets like radar, airfield and bridges. The probability that it would miss its designated target is more compaired to CM. The cost of BM is very high and cost effectiveness is also an important point which would be very low when used with conventional weapon.
I completely agree with Mattster that once a country detects incoming BM it will initiate a nuclear retialiation. President Bush Jr. had plans to arm Trident SLBM with conventional weapon or inhert warhead on which President Putin said that launch of any BM regardless of type of warhead the type warhead, russia will assume it as a nuclear strike and will retiliate in appropriate manner.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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thx Guys. You are educating me. I understand the BM missile part, now assuming war breaks out. I am a civilian so please excuse me if I am asking very basic question. I am kind of visualizing how I see wars will be executed. Here is what I feel. If war breaks out.
1) I would like to hit some bridges to make sure supply of weapons and food to front line fighting force becomes difficult.
2) I will like to hit some Radars so that I can give some advantage to my air forces.
3) I will like to hit some forward airbases of enemy to make sure they cannot attack with ease.

How will I achieve this, till date I was thinking we are using BM and you guys make me look like fool. Bhooo.

Now next things comes to my mind is CM, with Bramhos range is 299 KM so it can only hit border areas and cannot strike deep.
 

mattster

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thx Guys. You are educating me. I understand the BM missile part, now assuming war breaks out. I am a civilian so please excuse me if I am asking very basic question. I am kind of visualizing how I see wars will be executed. Here is what I feel. If war breaks out

Now next things comes to my mind is CM, with Bramhos range is 299 KM so it can only hit border areas and cannot strike deep.

I think you are right - in a war situation, given that BM are not an option - if you want to hit strategic targets like bridges, airfields, etc, you only have 3 choices:

1: either do a precision airstrike(the old-fashioned way.....very risky)

2: use cruise missiles like the brahmos, tomahawk, etc(but they are range/payload limited)

3: use a drone attack like the Predator, Reaper, etc( which currently only the US has battle tested drones - also limited by range/payload)

Bottom line for a country like India is that if you want to punish an errant neighbour for their bad behaviour without resorting to air-strikes, then you have to go with cruise missiles with all kinds of GPS/satellite guidance to hit your targets accurately. Thats why I think India has put so much effort into the Brahmos. The range can be extended but I think they keep it under 299 for the MTCR compliance.

But in a real war situation, who gives a crap about MTCR.....I am sure India will try to extend the range of Brahmos to reach as much of Pakistan as possible.

One thing that really puzzles me is why more countries have not developed drone technology. The US Predator drones are kicking the crap out of Taliban/Al Queida in the Pak border. If anything, the US experience proves how effective these things are in the counter-insurgency fight.

Despite all this - i dont think there is a single country outside of the US that has really taken this technology to its limit. The Israelis have something but it certainly does not look like the Predator, and I think that India too has something but it does not appear to be anywhere near maturity.
 

sandeepdg

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2k to 3k breaks MTCR. Brahmos 2 will only have a range of 290km as its predecessor.
MTCR has got nothing to do with indigenous missile developments for the country's self security needs....it is only to prevent proliferation of missile systems with range in excess of 300 km and capability to carry nuclear warheads.....so, there's no limitation on a longer range Brahmos.... Pakistan already has the 700 km range Babur....and already working on a 1000 km one...
 

p2prada

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One thing that really puzzles me is why more countries have not developed drone technology. The US Predator drones are kicking the crap out of Taliban/Al Queida in the Pak border. If anything, the US experience proves how effective these things are in the counter-insurgency fight.
Drone technology needs very high levels of intelligence gathering capability. There were also reports of US using locals to paint targets by dropping small beacon chips that are used by hellfires to home in on their targets.

MTCR has got nothing to do with indigenous missile developments for the country's self security needs....it is only to prevent proliferation of missile systems with range in excess of 300 km and capability to carry nuclear warheads.....so, there's no limitation on a longer range Brahmos.... Pakistan already has the 700 km range Babur....and already working on a 1000 km one...
Brahmos is not indigenous. The Propulsion system and the seeker is Russian even now. The manufacturing of both is carried out in Russia and sent to India for assembly. Till date Russia has refused to provide ToT for the propulsion system.
 

notinlove

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yup russia can't provide india the technology for any missile that has a range more than 300 km because it has signed the mtcr ........... whereas pakistan can get the missiles from china as china is not a signatory of mtcr

what is interesting though is that
TRISHUL: The ADM Detailed
this article claims that pakistan got technology for a 350 km missile from south africa
but south africa is a signatory of mtcr ... !!!
 

sandeepdg

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I don't think India needs Russia's permission to increase the range of the Brahmos. As long as we are developing it here, we can do whatever we can other than selling it to others.
 

notinlove

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well we CANNOT do whatever we want because the propulsion system and the seeker is not ours :|
 

sayareakd

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coming back to topic how many ballistic missiles do we really have ???

any one has any idea how many agni series of missile have we tested ???
 
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