Nuclear weapons and Pakistan's naval strategy

[Illusive]

No Sir, you brought nukes to the Sub Continent and forced us to develop a similar capability with huge sacrifices and compromises. Our nuclear programme and arsenal is believed to have cost us between 20-30 billion dollar sofar since 1974.

India has a "No First Use Policy", that makes it important for us to develop 2nd strike capabilities, while pakistan is intend on using nukes with their battlefield nukes which is highly dangerous and provocative since it increases the likelihood of a nuclear standoff. But did India respond to that, the answer is no.

Even US dropped the idea of tactical nukes because it was a dangerous idea.

Your military creates hysteria and you folks get sucked into it.

 

[Neo]

It was a reaction to china and Tibet annexation. In no way did india view Pakistan as a
Nuclear threat.

But nuclearisation is a chain reaction. You would have known and calculated the risk of Pakistan going nuclear before you detonated the bomb in 1974.
If China was a threat to you, a nuclear India was a bigger threat to us.

 

[ladder]

I can deliver a nuclear bomb by a car to explode in a busy street during business hour. Will that be credible enough nuclear stance?

Similarly depending upon how much miniaturized your warheads are, you can load to any matching delivery systems, including cruise missiles and torpedoes. But question is what purpose does it solve?

The question from 'can be done' to 'to do it' and further more 'what will happen' if we do it can be answered from just visiting the K-15 slbm thread. And the need to develop a 3500 km slbm.

The illusion of 'tactical' vs 'tactical' nukes was shattered by India's statement that tactical nuke attack on Indian columns will meet a massive responses not just tactical nukes. Similarly if there is a illusion that because a Pakistani warship will not be attacked because it carries nukes, in the fear of escalation, can be properly addressed, as was done in the case of tactical nukes.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

But nuclearisation is a chain reaction. You would have known and calculated the risk of Pakistan going nuclear before you detonated the bomb in 1974.
If China was a threat to you, a nuclear India was a bigger threat to us.

India's nuclear program started in 1950's it was a political decision to test in 1974.
The Bay of Bengal incident in 1971 being a big motivation.again india did not view
Pakistan as a nuclear threat.

 

[Neo]

Pakistan was given the technology by the Americans in the first place and later the Chinese added to it to counter India.

Pakistan got the centrifuges from the Chinese through North Korea and Pakistan helped North Korea to develop the enriched uranium, were mister A.Q.Khan from Pakistan enjoyed his hands on the latest tech at that time to develop his knowledge and he later gave this centrifuges to IRAN........

Totally wrong! Canada delivered Kanupp and France was building Chashma Nuclear Plant but abandoned it under US' pressure in 1979. Dr AQ Khan was working with Urenco in Alemelo, Netherlands as a metallurgist and nuclear scientist specialised in uranium enrichment technology. He brought the blueprint to Pakistan, built KRL at Kahuta and launched HEU programme between 1975-76.

Pakistan was already working on a plutonium programme and had acquired more than 80% of the required technology and sensitive tools to build the bomb. We were merely two years away from completing it till AQ Khan took over.

Gas centrifuges were imported from Germany and Switserland, not North Korea. Pakistan needed a delivery system as the AQ-5 Fantan was an obsolete bomber and mirages had no nuclear capability. Khan sold uranium enrichment technology to the Koreans in trade for full tot of Nondong missiles wich would be later modified and developped into a nuclear capable missile. Korean missile technology helped us develop the first generation of missiles. Pakistan did not sell enriched uranium to Notrth Korea or to any other country.

The Iran affair was for Khan's personal gain as we had built the HEU warhead in 1984 already and Khan was told to work on a range of missiles.

The abandoned Chashma Nuclear complex was picked up by China in mid eightees and statted operations in early nineties. The complex now exists of two 300MW reactors, a third 330MW has been.completed and will start operations in few months. Two.more 330MW reactors are under construction and expected to be completed in 2016-17.

The plutonium programme was picked up again in the nineties as we realised that dilivery system of the bigger and heavier HEU warheads would remain a challenge. We started building Khushab experimental heavy water reactor with Chinese help.and completed the 50MW plant in mid nineties. Now the complex has five heavy water plants, two operational and three under construction.

 

[ladder]

@Neo

He brought the blueprint to Pakistan

How?

 

[Neo]

@Neo



How?

He copied the full architecture of the building, made an inventory of the equipment with names and locations of their manufacturers and ordered them with the help of his european friends who had easy access to sensitive technology. There was no NSG, no NPT or CTBT hence no strict export control. The shipments were made through several countries to avoid detection.

This is how we were able to import a lot of off-the-shelf industrial parts for our original plutonium programme as well.

 

[ladder]

@Neo

But there was IP and Patent over technology in those time right?

NSG, NPT and CTBT put strict control of export (and use ) as you put it. But, non voluntary pilferage of technology is covered by them is new to me, or I am missing something?

 

[The Fox]

i found this interesting videos hope i am not reposting this video
O.M. Defence and Diplomacy- Threat from Indian Nuclear subs - YouTube

 

[The Fox]

India's Rising Military Power - CCTV, 13Aug13 - YouTube

 

[The Fox]

India has a very robust nuclear-deterrence capability: DRDO chief VK Saraswat to NDTV - YouTube

 

[The Fox]

Jake Thompson on the Growth of an Indian Nuclear Navy - YouTube

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Japan firms played into Khan's nuclear hands | The Japan Times

Japanese firm also involved.

 

[Neo]

@Neo

But there was IP and Patent over technology in those time right?

NSG, NPT and CTBT put strict control of export (and use ) as you put it. But, non voluntary pilferage of technology is covered by them is new to me, or I am missing something?

Technology was never a problem since AQ Khan was one of the key researchers and developpers of Urenco. He knew the 'recipe' but needed to import hi-tech machinery that could not be be built in Pakistan. For most sensitive parts which had dual civil/military capacity he used a university in Pakistan.as an excuse: The parts were needed to build the nuclear faculty and the research labs.

Other systems were ordered in the name of Urenco.

 

[Neo]

Japan firms played into Khan's nuclear hands | The Japan Times

Japanese firm also involved.

Companies from atleast 18 countries were involved in Khan's network.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Neo

Why hasn't Pakistanis nuclear weapons deterred USA?

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

@Neo, bhai my point was that Pakistan was given the tech by the Americans and A.Q.Khan used his experience to become an expert by helping the North Koreans....

Later the North Koreans gave the missile tech to Pakistan, which is the design of China. After that the Chinese started to give the missile tech directly to Pakistan. Pakistani design was considered to be far more better than Indian missile tech, during that time. But we Indians made our own tech rather than getting the tech by means of stealth. Pakistan had America, which was ready to give anything under secret circumstances and on the other hand India did not get anything from the Russians as they did not want India to be self-reliant in missile tech. But India, today has one of the most sophisticate missile tech in the world after Americans, Russians, French, UK and the Chinese......

Indian missile tech is developing at a faster pace now and we will be self-reliant in 10 years of time and we will be able to produce everything indigenously.....

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Some people said the same thing about Pakistani nuclear capability and missiles two decades ago.

Bhai Nuclear missile is very much different from Nuclear Submarine.

The tech is highly guarded by Russia and America.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Bhai Nuclear missile is very much different from Nuclear Submarine.

The tech is highly guarded by Russia and America.

i have already told him but he is not interested. waiting for his nuke sub to get ready in 10 yrs

 

[Neo]

Neo

Why hasn't Pakistanis nuclear weapons deterred USA?

Deterred from what exactly?