Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by Sabari Vinayak Foxtrot, Oct 16, 2015.
Unseen Video of Operation Black Tornado - Brave NSG and MARCOS during Mumbai 26/11 Attack
Nsg commando during 26/11 were under equipped and under trained . I personally was not impressed by their tactics
Abhi anedo..Chadi faadke islambad bhejdenge.
"Under trained"? Lol. No. Operation Black Tornedo was one of the most complex ever HR operation in recent history and the NSG accomplished it almost with perfection.
yeah they were under equipped,it was ridiculous how under equipped they were,
in fact they are still a lot under equipped,
they were probably under trained too,maybe still they are,
training depends on budget and training infrastructure,equipment and weapons they get,
which they lacked for so many years now,
even then they are solid,
their lack of tactical training probably marginal and with modernization they gonna cover it easily.
beg to differ on the under trained part. here's a video explaining my point:
the only lack of preparedness i'd say they had was that of engaging simultaneously at multiple locations, something even most other tactical counter terrorism units around the world may not have faced. that and training to fight in hotels more often.
Where were you when 26/11 happened?
Imagine SAS or SEALS team had to go inside a large multifloor hotel which is spread out over two acres, they will not perform any better.
they dont come after 2 days. and waited for plane for transport and they dont travel in BEST local bus
see the video. they were on standby ("hot standby" as they call it) from the start of the attack and were mobilised only when the order was given. the orders came from the ministry led by Shivraj Singh Chauhan, who was called 'speactacularly inept' in the wikileaks cable files. compare that with the recent mobilisation in punjab which happened very quickly. it does matter who takes the decisions.
as far as the equipment is concerned, i agree with you. it was almost humiliating to see their gear and the commandos travelling in BEST buses.
If I'm not wrong there was zero casualties i.e. deaths of hostages when NSG took over.Then it's a great success.
Watch this :
Good video @delta & @Varahamihira ! thanks for sharing this!
Under-equipped? Yes- to an APPALLING (in my opinion criminal) degree. Why no one was held accountable for this nor such questions were't even asked is mind-boggling but then, this is India where the media doesn't ask these kind of questions and the politicians are too oblivious to their own responsibilities to know the responsibilities of others.
Under-trained? I can't agree with this. The NSG is and was one of the world's finest CT/intervention forces and their training is/was top-notch. Of course there were a LOT of lessons to take away from this operation and they have been learnt and applied to the training modules of the NSG today. This was one of the most complex (if not the most complex) HR operations in history- thousands of rooms to be cleared (many of them barricaded), hundreds of civilians to rescue, unknown building layouts, an unknown number of terrorists, unknown goals (ransom or massacre) etc etc. There was NO force on the planet prepared to deal with a 26/11 in 2008, the NSG did the best they could with what they had and did an exceptional job at that. To only loose 2 operators in such a scenario is pretty remarkable and a testament to their tactics and training.
I sincerely hope no repeat of 26/11 happens but if it does the NSG is MANY times more prepared to deal with it today and, thankfully, the political class has woken up and is equipping them with what they desperately require.
The NSG were in Mumbai within 10 hours and most of that 10 hours related to a) a delay in transport (i believe an Il 76 had to fly in from Chandigarh) and b) not being green lighted to actually make their way to Mumbai by the MHA.
Since 26/11 these two factors have been addressed.:
a) the NSG has the authority to charter any aircraft on Indian soil for their use in an emergency, C-17s are located in Hindon and the IAF has C-130J-30s in Hindon explicitly meant for SF use. Additionally the NSG now has "hubs" around the country from which teams can get to a major incident far faster than needing to wait to travel from Delhi.
b) the NSG is now made ready whenever any major incident is unfolding anywhere in India- IIRC when the Mumbai 2010 blasts happened they (the main CT task force in Delhi) were sat in a ARC IL-76 waiting on the tarmac in case they were required.
Russia's Spetnaz ALPHA should have been let loose on them. They would have brought out 608 Body bags. 600 guests/hostages and all 8 terrorists within a few hours.
why navy marines commando were asked to leave and make room for NSG??? why there was no coordination.
lack of communication and coordination lead to 2 to 3 days of carnage and 200+ killed
At that time navy marines were not trained for urban COIN ops..
1) There were only around 10-15 MARCOs deployed so they were not in a position to offer much help after the NSG arrived on scene.
2) As pointed out in the above video- not a single civilian lost their life after the NSG arrived on the scene so I can't see how a lack of communication or coordination by the NSG and MARCOs would have made a difference.
3) As pointed out, urban HR was not part of the MARCOs' main duties back in 2008, this was corrected AFTERWARDS.
MARCOS are killing machine, NSG are trained to be sharp shooters only to take out intended target from the civilians. So using MARCOS in this situation would have mean loss of civilians.
I also think that NSG took lot of time, Plus those guys were exhausted from the flight from Delhi and from Mumbai airport to the site of attack.
All important learning curve, but its important we don't repeat such errors. Especially of broadcasting such operations live!! I am looking at you Indian media, god knows how much it compromised the mission.
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