NSA Data Collection

Discussion in 'Americas' started by Razor, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I don't know how many of you guys have seen this before, but this is the first time I'm seeing this. This is from MAR2013
    DNR= Dialed Number Recognition
    DNI=Digital Network Intelligence
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundless_Informant

    Here's the heat map

    [​IMG]

    1. Apparently India is one of the most surveilled nations right after Iran, pak and jordan. Maybe because of india's large population?
    But still india is more surveilled than china and also arch enemy (of US) russia. As a matter of fact russia is among the least surveilled nation. :hmm:
    Are russians doing something to actively protect their general public signals data???
    2. Apparently Nato allies in Eastern Europe need more surveillance than eveel russia. Strange. Probably to prevent pro-russian thought in these countries. This is very interesting, around the periphery of russia is more surveillance than in russia itself. Prometheism in action?? @pmaitra
    3. Americans are also among the most surveilled by NSA :lol:
    I'm guessing this is just a limited aspect of NSA surveillance story.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
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  3. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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  4. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    I am not surprised that we are surveiled most by America. Russia has always been a challenger to US. In the last 50 years, China has become a challenger. The only country which has the potential to be US challenger is India after the other two.
    In fact, BJP was spied upon by NSA.

    I have always been emphasising and will keep on doing so, forget Pakistan, forget China. USA is the ultimate enemy of Bharatvarsh.
     
  5. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Agreed. Specifically mind warfare games of the USA. They are spreading that western ideology to india (and elsewhere) and this will rot the country right from the stomach. Manifestations of this can be seen today: just look at the news or look at how the society around us behaves.
    PS: But I wouldn't forget about chn-pak team.
     
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  6. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    If the NSA spies on India, they will find a lot of hot Mallu aunty navel videos. Jokes aside, look at their propaganda. Now that their Indian moles (commies and paid media) have failed to stem the tide of nationalism, they have handed over their operations to the US propaganda machine, NYTimes to manage it.

    What Passes for Sedition in India
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/opinion/what-passes-for-sedition-in-india.html

    India’s Crackdown on Dissent
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/opinion/indias-crackdown-on-dissent.html

    Now the gloves are off. The true enemies of India have come out in the open. They are lecturing us over sedition despite India putting the accused through due judicial process while they conveniently forget that the police in Murica is hunting down black kids like it's open season without any due judicial process.

    They are talking about crackdown on dissent in India, someone should remind them how they hounded their own dissident Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning.





    After running the most viscous anti-India campaign, this buffoon asks "what are we doing to our image, my masters in USA are upset". The fact that prestitutes are having to call for backup support from their foreign masters shows that they are on their last leg. Their unholy propaganda empire in India is crumbling. All we can say is "Ek dhakka aur do.."
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
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  7. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    The USA usually has lots of cards up its sleeves.
    The first step for any responsible govt. in india should be to cull the fifth column elements (and their entire families) both in the govt. and that loudmouth (aka media)
    I know it's difficult and I'm not even sure it can be done with the form of governement system india has.
     
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  8. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    brown sepoys at yale univ. or somewhere have also organised orgy-fest

    @Razor - surveillance as per kissinger's theory - "....to keep India neither very strong so as to become another china, nor very weak so as to become another pakistan."?
     
  9. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is being done. 9000 NGOs have had their licences cancelled just last month. Dozens of 'fifth column' media persons have been thrown out from their Lutyens dens a few weeks ago. Not everything can be done via government machinery. Some has to be done through social coercion.
     
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  10. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    And we are forgetting neither the Chinkis, nor the Pakis. But our eyes should also not miss USA.
    Yes, western ideology - particularly the perverted ideas of the west are fast being spread throughout the urban areas of our country. Nauseating things like sedition, homos, indecency, womanising in the garb of feminism and what not are being projected as stylish and modern.
    And our idiots are aping everything but the good qualities of America like hard work, courage, defiance.
    Covert enemies are more dangerous than overt ones, IMHO.
     
  11. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    That is not just an opinion, that is the truth.
     
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  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    India's large population is one answer. You hit the nail in the head.

    Regarding data collection, all they are doing is collecting data. It is a big nexus. Contractors who work on the NSA data collection project appear to have lobbied hard to get the contract and keep collecting data. They have so much data, that no one will be able to go through all of that. All that matters is that these contractors are making money out of the US government, while some people, who are in favour of this scheme, have their vested interests.

    Case in point: Even after Russia warned the US about Tamerlan Tsarnayev, the US could not do anything.
     
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  13. VIP

    VIP Ultra Nationalist Senior Member

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    Why do I have a feel that USA was actually having a hand in forming governments in India??? And also ISI. CIA can make or break any government in developing world. Congoons have already pleaded Pakistan to throw out Modi and put them back. I mean, how can we endorse an Italian woman over any Indian? Something's really going in the background through NGO and media agents which only Modi knows. Look how our journos are highly opinionated in SM.
     
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  14. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    That is very true.

    One more thing: “A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends.”
     
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  15. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Aha!!!
    The NSA guys will be sweating like a whore listening to conversations!!

    'Not surprising India has become an important surveillance target'
    For some time now, people around the world have suspected their emails are being read and phone conversations tapped into by government agencies. But there never was any proof. Everybody’s worst fears came true in June when Edward Snowden, a system administrator with the U.S. National Security Agency, disclosed information about mass electronic surveillance programmes being run by the agency since 2007. Glenn Greenwald broke that story for The Guardian.

    Since then the American journalist, who lives in Rio de Janeiro, has done a series of hard-hitting stories that have exposed the reach of the NSA’s secret surveillance operations. His expose about the NSA snooping on Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff’s phones and email has already led to the cancellation of her state dinner at the White House.

    Now collaborating with The Hindu on a series of stories about the NSA’s spying activities in India, Mr. Greenwald spoke to Shobhan Saxena in the course of their meetings in hotel lobbies and at his house, which he shares with his partner David Miranda, 10 dogs and one cat, in the middle of Tijuca forest in Rio. Excerpts from the interview:

    What do you think has been the most important impact of your stories?

    It’s that not only Americans, but people around the world, now understand the true aim of the U.S. surveillance system: collect, store, and analyse all forms of electronic communication between human beings. In other words, their goal is, by definition, to eliminate privacy globally. And this realisation has produced profound and intense debates on every continent about the value of individual privacy and internet freedom, the dangers posed by secret U.S. surveillance, and more broadly, the role the U.S. plays in the world.

    Your reports have revealed the United States to be a massive surveillance state. This image is very different from the US own projection of itself as beacon of individual liberty, freedom and protector of individual privacy. How have these revelations affected the image of U.S. in the world?

    In the beginning, people assumed that the primary focus (of our reports) was going to be on what the National Security Agency is doing and what the U.S. surveillance policy is, and what was going to change was how Americans thought about spying and how people in the world thought about privacy. But what actually changed the most from these stories was how people think about America generally — exactly the way you just asked.

    These stories revealed a surveillance programme that functioned without the knowledge of not just people around the world but also of Americans who supposedly hold their government democratically accountable; the U.S., it is clear, does not observe any legal limits or ethical constraints in its pursuit of power. It’s completely contrary to the image it presents to the world.

    Is this process irreversible because both the Republicans and Democrats in the US now talk the same language on matters of national security? The way the Obama administration has reacted to the reports, it seems there is no soul searching happening in Washington.

    I don’t think anything is irreversible when it comes to political trends. We saw in the last three to four years how the most entrenched tyrannies in the Arab world were weakened, subverted and even uprooted. There are all kinds of examples in history of radical changes that people never anticipated. So, I don’t think it’s irreversible. I do think it’s difficult to change it because of this bipartisan embrace by both the parties of not just the national security state in general but also America’s role in the world as an empire. But one of the things you are already seeing in the five-six weeks since we have been reporting the story is a scrambling of partisan divisions. So, half of the most vocal support for the reports has come from Republicans, conservatives and libertarians; the other half has come from liberals and people on the left.

    It really has scrambled the normal ideological categories in ways that’s unprecedented; you also see in public opinion polls a huge increase in the number of people who are genuinely concerned about the excesses of the surveillance state, civil liberty abuses and privacy infringements. All this suggests that change is probably inevitable when it comes to these sorts of questions as a result of these disclosures.

    Your partner David Miranda was detained in London under an anti-terror law. Do you think they were really after the documents he was carrying or were they trying to intimidate you?

    There is no question their primary goal was intimidation. If their goal was to take what he was carrying, they could have done that by detaining him for 9 minutes. Instead, they detained him for 9 hours, the maximum allowed by law. And they not only detained him, but did so under an “anti-terrorism” law. Especially for non-U.S.-and-U.K. citizens, it’s an incredibly terrorising thing to hear that you’re being detained by the U.K. pursuant to a “terrorism” investigation given that country’s awful human rights record over the last decade.

    A U.S. official told Reuters that the purpose of David’s detention was to “send a message” to those of us reporting on these stories that we should stop. It was a thuggish attack on press freedoms.

    There have been attempts in the U.S. to criminalise journalism, as happened in the case of Fox News and AP? Doesn’t this bother you?

    They are already succeeding in creating a climate of fear against whistleblowers and sources. That’s why some federal lawyers have told me that, at least for now, I shouldn’t go back to the U.S. and I should not try to enter the country. It’s pretty extraordinary for American lawyers to tell an American journalist that you should not try to re-enter your own country for fear that they may try and arrest you.

    So you have not been to the U.S. since you published the stories?

    No, I have not. I have been to Hong Kong and back to Brazil through Dubai. I am not saying that I will get arrested, but just the fact that it’s even on the table for discussion and that a lot of people feel publicly free to advocate this without losing their position or their credibility, makes it a real possibility. When you talk about being charged by the US government under espionage statutes, it’s not a risk that you can casually dismiss.

    Why do you think the NSA has targeted the diplomatic missions and other interests of India, which has friendly ties with the U.S.?


    India is an increasingly important country in virtually every realm: economic, political, diplomatic and military. The U.S. goal is to subject virtually everyone to mass surveillance, but it is not surprising that India has become an important surveillance target. Ultimately, it’s a question of power: the more the US knows about what other countries are doing — not just their governments but their companies and populations — the more power the U.S. has vis-à-vis that country.


    One of the most shocking revelations in your reports was the involvement of several western democracies like the U.K. and Germany in these secret surveillance programmes. It seems few countries are willing to stand up to the U.S.

    I think the world can be very broadly divided, when it comes to the relationship of states with the United States, in three categories. One is states that are incredibly subservient to the U.S. and always capitulate to its dictates. The other part is the states that are generally hostile to the U.S., and then there is a majority of countries in the middle that are independent. They ally with the U.S. if their interests suggest they should and they oppose the U.S. if they have to.

    Most European states are very squarely in the first camp, namely the governments that always capitulate meekly and subserviently to the dictates of the United States. So you saw lots of feigned anger and artificial indignation when these revelations first emerged because the citizens of European states were targeted and they actually care about privacy. So the governments had to pretend to be angry but what you saw was their true colours when U.S. basically told them to deny airspace rights to the plane of (Bolivian President) Evo Morales. They complied in really extreme ways by denying the airspace to the president of a sovereign country. The reason they did that is they are complicit in it: virtually all these western European governments; whereas in Latin America and to some an extent in Asia, certainly in the Middle East in some countries, there is a lot more independence. So the anger that is being expressed is to some degree artificial but it’s also more genuine.

    There seems to be hardly any anger against technology firms like Facebook, Skype, Google, which almost collaborated with the U.S. government in collecting information about people around the world. Now these firms claim they didn’t have any choice. Did they have the option of saying ‘no’ to the NSA?


    There are legal frameworks that require them to collaborate with the US government in its surveillance programme but they have gone beyond what’s legally required, just like the telecom companies did during the Bush years. The reason is that they benefit massively in all sorts of ways from positive relationships with the government. Just the benefits they get from collaborating with the U.S. government in terms of this massive spying programme vastly outweigh what they think are the costs to their customer relation or to their goodwill in the world from doing that. One of the reasons they made that calculation was because they have been able to do all this in secret; nobody knew they were cooperating to this extent and one of the benefits of disclosing what they have been doing is that it alters the calculus for them because if people start perceiving that these companies are so complicit with the US government and their communications are not safe, they will start looking for alternatives.


    The problem right now is that Facebook, Google and Skype are such mammoth entities that it’s almost impossible to avoid using them. If you are a 22-year-old, you may be bothered by the fact that Facebook is invading your privacy, but when all your friends, all your peers, all your employers are on Facebook and demand you to be, it’s very difficult to take a principled stand and say ‘I am not going to continue to use Facebook or Skype’.


    Your reports have in a way also exposed the so-called mainstream media like the New York Times and CNN, which ran more stories about Edward Snowden’s personal life than the U.S. surveillance programme. Even you came under attack in some newspaper columns. Do you think the space for good journalism and investigative reporting is shrinking in global media?

    Yes and no. I think it was completely predictable what they were going to do. Even before we disclosed the identity of Snowden I ran a column with the intent of predicting that they would try to distract attention from the revelations because serving the government’s interest is what their function is. They are going to demonise him along with anybody, including journalists, who work with him for transparency. That’s what they do in every single case. They did that to Daniel Ellsberg 30 years ago, 40 years ago. They did that to Wikileaks, Bradley Manning. We knew they are going to do that to Snowdon and eventually to me.

    But it hasn’t really mattered. The space for investigative reporting in some sense has diminished because of how corporatized mass media has become, but the way the internet has given rise to all sorts of alternative models the space for investigative journalism is larger than it ever was. I am a creature of the internet. I started my own blog seven years ago and even now when I work for the Guardian, I did so by demanding total editorial independence. I have my own voice that I am not worried about. My career doesn’t depend upon currying favour with people in power. I was able to develop this alternative model because of the power of the internet and finding my own audience and not having to rely on these big institutions. There are lots of other people who are doing that in all different realms, in all different cultures, in all different places on the planet and it has definitely transformed journalism. There is a lot of soul-searching going on inside the New York Times and other media outlets on why they were completely frozen out of one of the biggest — if not the biggest — media scoops in many years. And the reason is that Snowden didn’t trust them to report the story aggressively. He didn’t trust them to resist the demands of the US government, just like Bradley Manning didn’t trust the New York Times or Washington Post and went to Wikileaks. So you are going to see more of that as more stories like this end with places or people like me or with Wikileaks, rather than in the New York Times and Washington Post. Their model of journalism is increasingly going to become discredited. It’s happening already.

    You are working on a book on this whole affair. Is the book also about Edward Snowden?

    Only a part of the book is going to be about my time, my story about how I ended up involved in this story and how I ended up with developing a relationship with Snowden as my source, how I got the documents, how I reported them, my experiences in Hong Kong and afterwards. But the bulk of the book is going to be about what the US has done in constructing this surveillance state and what the implications and dangers of it are. There are going to be new revelations as well based on the documents.

    Some people have suggested that Mr. Snowden could be a false flag. Naomi Wolf even wrote an article arguing that this all could be a set-up. Did you have any doubt whatsoever about Snowden or authenticity of the documents before you sat down to write your stories?

    No, to buy this theory would be so stupid that I didn’t spend a second of my time and energy on it. Part of what we all do as human beings is based on intuition. You have to make judgments about who is lying to you and who is telling the truth, who is not credible, who is tricking you and who is being authentic. When I went to Hong Kong, my only goal for the first four or five days was to understand everything I possibly could about Edward Snowden and to ensure that there was nothing he was hiding and he was genuine about what he was claiming. As I had never met him before, I spent dozens and dozens of hours with him in the first week alone. Speaking face to face with him — four feet away from where he was sitting and looking into my eyes — and I had no doubt about what he said and who he was. I would rather have people who are excessively sceptical rather than excessively gullible but that particular theory deserves nothing but contempt.

    You have been living in Rio de Janeiro for eight years now. How do you feel living in Brazil?

    I love Brazil. That’s why I have been living here for so long. Of course, I was here because of the discriminatory law in the United States that prevents my partner from emigrating there even though I could emigrate here.

    But there is really a robust CIA presence in Rio de Janeiro; the station chief of Brazil and Rio is notoriously aggressive in his methods. So I assume that I have been spied on and monitored. We had an incident, when my partner’s laptop disappeared from the house. But I feel as safe here as I would anywhere else. I don’t feel particularly unsafe here. You are only so safe when you are carrying in your bag 10,000 top-secret documents of the most secretive agency of the most powerful government in the world. You don’t have complete safety, but I don’t feel unsafe either.

    Keywords: Glenn Greenwald interview, NSA spying on India, NSA surveillance programme, Edward Snowden, electronic snooping
     
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  16. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    India's surveillance schemes
    India’s surveillance programs mostly started following the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks. That was when the Ministry of Home Affairs first proposed the creation of a National Intelligence Grid (NATGRID), which will give 11 intelligence and investigative agencies real-time access to 21 citizen data sources to track terror activities. These citizen data sources will be provided by various ministries and departments, otherwise called “provider agencies”, and will include bank account details, telephone records, passport data and vehicle registration details, among other types of data.


    The Ministry of Home Affairs has sought over Rs. 3,400 crore (around USD 540 million!) for the implementation of NATGRID, which aims to create comprehensive patterns of intelligence by collecting sensitive information from databases of departments like the police, banks, tax and telecoms to supposedly track any terror suspect and incident.

    But NATGRID is far from India's only data sharing scheme. In 2009 the Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs approved the creation and implementation of the Crime and Criminal Tracking Network & Systems (CCTNS), which would facilitate the sharing of databases among 14,000 police stations across all 35 states and Union Territories of India, excluding 6,000 police offices which are high in the police hierarchy. Rs. 2,000 crore (around USD 320 million) have been allocated for the CCTNS, which is being implemented by the National Crime Records Bureau under the national e-governance scheme. The CCTNS not only increases transparency by automating the function of police stations, but also provides the civil police with tools, technology and information to facilitate the investigation of crime and detection of criminals.

    But apparently, sharing data and linking databases is not enough to track criminals and terrorists. As such, in the aftermath of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, the Indian government also implemented various interception systems. In September 2013 it was reported that the Indian government has been operating Lawful Intercept & Monitoring (LIM) systems, widely in secret. In particular, mobile operators in India have deployed their own LIM systems allowing for the so-called “lawful interception” of calls by the government. And possibly to enable this, mobile operators are required to provide subscriber verification to the Telecom Enforcement, Resource and Monitoring (TERM) cells of the Department of Telecommunications.

    In the case of Internet traffic, the LIM systems are deployed at the international gateways of large Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and expand to a broad search across all Internet traffic using “keywords” and “key-phrases”. In other words, security agencies using LIM systems are capable of launching a search for suspicious words, resulting in the indiscriminate monitoring of all Internet traffic, possibly without court oversight and without the knowledge of ISPs.

    India has also automated and centralized the interception of communications through the Central Monitoring System (CMS). This project was initially envisioned in 2009, following the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks and was approved in 2011. The CMS intercepts all telecommunications in India and centrally stores the data in national and regional databases. The CMS will be connected with the Telephone Call Interception System (TCIS) which will help monitor voice calls, SMS and MMS, fax communications on landlines, CDMA, video calls, GSM and 3G networks. Agencies which will have access to the CMS include the Intelligence Bureau (IB), the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence (DRI), the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and the National Investigation Agency (NIA).

    Unlike mainstream interception, where service providers are required to intercept communications and provision interception requests to law enforcement agencies, the Central Monitoring System will automate the entire process of interception. This means that the CMS authority will have centralized access to all intercepted data and that the authority can also bypass service providers in gaining such access. Once security agencies have access to this data, they are equipped with Direct Electronic Provisioning, filters and alerts on the target numbers, as well as with Call Details Records (CDR) analysis and data mining tools to identify the personal information of target numbers.

    Given that roughly 73% of India's population uses mobile phones, this means that the Central Monitoring System can potentially affect about 893 million people, more than double the population of the United States! However, how is it even possible for Indian authorities to mine the data of literally millions of people? Who supplies Indian authorities with the technology to do this and what type of technology is actually being used?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/opens...cy-big-surveillance-indias-surveillance-state
     
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  17. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Still doesn't explain why we are surveilled more than PR of China.
    They have a kind of AI program that flags interesting people, events, places and so on. Besides they'll use it to target (beg, bribe, threaten, coerce, persuade and so on) people by connecting all their related info; these people could be politicians, media people, religious authorities, corporate leaders, military and intelligence and so on.
    They could know in advance of chinks in the armor of not just military but people in power and influence.

    I guess this is aim of effective espioinage summarized in one line. :)

    Also @pmaitra Maybe I put this thread in the wrong sub folder. Maybe it should be elsewhere like "Internal Security" or "Americas" sub folders? Your call.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  18. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Multiple factors:
    1. Ideological opponent
    2. Weak network security
    3. Poor encryption usage
    4. Large population
    5. Just for fun (not joking)
     
  19. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    When I said
    What I was alluding was that in spite of american media rhetoric of china = dangerous dragon and russia= putin bear mutant and india=immature/still learning democracy, surveillance statistics seems to be telling a different story; that americans are very interested in our country and region, from an intelligence collection perspective.

    This probably has to do with your points and also India's geopolitical entanglements and weight.

    Did not get you point #5, though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
  20. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Yes of course. I almost forgot, thank you for reminding! Ours is a policy of holding two branches at the same time.
    One of the few countries which buy both from Russia and USA.
    So yes #0 Wondering who will get the MMRCA deal

    As for #5, yes, surveillance can be fun. Wouldn't you like to know the goings on in the house of your next door neighbour who happens to have a hot daughter? :D
     
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  21. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    Lynch mob violence?

    LYNCH MOB VIOLENCE?!?!?!

    Oh wait. Logic does not apply to propaganda.

    Poor, stupid me.
     
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