Novator awacs-killer

JHA

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its range is supposed to be 400km. no news on this lately..
 

bhramos

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Hi friends i'm posting all old news gathered about K-100 here.

India, Russia in talks for a new missile

NEW DELHI: After their recent success in developing a supersonic cruise missile, Brahmos, India and Russia are negotiating a partnership for

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developing an ultra long range beyond-visual-range air to air missile.

The missile is at present being developed by the Russian guided weapons builder Novato. Sources indicated that India was involved in the project by way of investment and technical participation. The missile, designated so far as R-172, is being developed by the Russians to be integrated with the fifth generation aircraft Su-35, with New Delhi likely to be a customer for its export version.

The new missile, the sources said, was aimed at engaging high asset airborne targets such as Awacs aircraft, air to ground surveillance and mid air refullers, which normally operate from stand off distance during battles.

The proposed acquisition assumes significance in the wake of recent media reports that Pakistan was in the process of purchasing such a missile from western countries to counter India’s moves to acquire Israeli Awacs and the recent induction of Uzbek il-78 mid-air refuellers by the IAF.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is also currently developing a beyond-visual-range air to air missile astra. DRDO chief, Dr V K Atre recently said that the missile was still in technology demonstrator stage and no tests had been undertaken of the new missile.

Meanwhile, after undergoing six successful flight tests since mid 2001, the naval version of the Brahmos missile has been approved for installation on all surface warships of the navy.

India, Russia in talks for a new missile - India - The Times of India
 

bhramos

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some sources claim the Missile could fly in 2015.

2015? - K-100 "AWACS killer" with a range of 200-400km is currently under joint development with India. May be based on the 9M38 airframe, previous names include Izdeliye 172 ('Article 172'), AAM-L (RVV-L), KS-172, KS-1, 172S-1 and R-172.

Wapedia - Wiki: NPO Novator
 

bhramos

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some sources claim the Missile could fly in 2015.

2015? - K-100 "AWACS killer" with a range of 200-400km is currently under joint development with India. May be based on the 9M38 airframe, previous names include Izdeliye 172 ('Article 172'), AAM-L (RVV-L), KS-172, KS-1, 172S-1 and R-172.

Wapedia - Wiki: NPO Novator
 

bhramos

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India, Russia negotiate partnership for a new missile


NEW DELHI, MAR 2 (PTI)
After their recent success in developing a supersonic cruise missile, Brahmos, India and Russia are negotiating a partnership for developing an ultra long range beyond-visual-range air to air missile.

The missile is at present being developed by the Russian guided weapons builder Novator and highly placed sources here indicated that India was involved in the project by way of investment and technical participation.

The missile, designated so far as R-172, is being developed by the Russians to be integrated with the fifth generation aircraft SU-35, with New Delhi likely to be a customer for its export version.

The new missle, the sources said, was aimed at engaging high asset airborne targets such as AWACS aircraft, air to ground surveillance and mid air refullers, which normally operate from stand off distance during battles.

The proposed acquisition assumes significance in the wake of recent media reports that Pakistan was in the process of purchasing such a missile from western countries to counter India's moves to acquire Israeli AWACS and the recent induction of Uzbek IL-78 mid-air refuellers by the Indian Air Force.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is also currently developing a beyond-visual-range air to air Missile Astra. The DRDO Chief Dr V K Atre recently told PTI that the missile was still in technology demonstrator stage and no tests had been undertaken of the new missile.

Meanwhile, after undergoing six highly-successfull flight tests since mid 2001, the naval version of the 290 kms range Brahmos missile has been approved for installation on all surface warships of the Navy.

Defence Minister George Fernandes recently said that the Brahmos naval version had achieved all mission objectives and had been cleared for placement as a major weapon system on all surface warships.

Facilities for production of Brahmos have already been set up at Bharat Dynamics in Hyderabad and the first of the naval ships would be armed with the missiles within the next three months by joint teams of Russian and Indian experts, officials said.

The air-breathing Brahmos anti-ship missile is powered by a liquid Ramjet engine, has a maximum speed of Mach 2.8 and can carry a warhead of upto 300 kgs to a distance of 300 kms.

The DRDO, along with full-fledged trials of the Naval version of the missile, have quietly also undertaken some trials for the land based version of the missile, which is to be mounted on specially modified Tetra Chasis.

DRDO sources said that the land version of the missile could be ready for induction into the army by another 15 months after undertaking user trials.

The air force is also gearing for the missile with modifications, which is planned to be integrated with the SU-30mki. However, scientists said that this programme could take upto 30 months.

news.outlookindia.com
 

sandeepdg

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Americans buying Soviet era missiles from Russia !! This has got to be the icing on the cake for the Russians. :sarcastic: But i don't think this deal went through at all ...
 

bhramos

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Officials Seek Destination of North Korean Arms(K-100 AWACS killer on board?)
12/14/09 | THOMAS FULLER and DAVID E. SANGER
Posted on Mon Dec 14 2009 21:03:24 GMT+0530 (India Standard Time) by TigerLikesRooster

Officials Seek Destination of North Korean Arms

By THOMAS FULLER and DAVID E. SANGER

BANGKOK, Thailand — A shipment of arms and apparently sophisticated missiles from North Korea seized here on a tip from American intelligence agencies has set off a series of investigations, as officials try to determine whether the cargo was headed to South Asia or the Middle East.

The Obama administration welcomed the interception by the Thai authorities as evidence that it had scored a success in its effort to enforce a United Nations Security Council resolution banning weapons exports by the North Korean government, an attempt to cut off the country’s most profitable export.

A senior White House official in Washington, declining to speak on the record because the interception on Friday had required high-level coordination among intelligence agencies that watched the shipment as it was loaded in Pyongyang, said the seizure was evidence that the administration would “aggressively and rigorously implement” the Security Council resolution, passed in June after North Korea set off its second nuclear test.

The resolution, No. 1874, authorizes any country to inspect and seize North Korean weapons shipments that pass through its territory, regardless of the cargo’s ultimate destination.

/snip

Charles P. Vick, a missile expert at GlobalSecurity.org, a research group in Alexandria, Va., said that if the markings were correct, the rockets might be K-100s, a type of Russian missile designed to destroy sophisticated radar planes. They are advertised as “Awacs killers,” a reference to the Airborne Warning and Control System planes used by the United States, Israel and soon India, which can orchestrate combat plans.

Mr. Vick noted that the diameter and length of the packaged missiles in the photograph appeared to match the specifications of the K-100: 16 inches wide and 20 feet long.

“It’s just a guess,”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/world/asia/14thai.html?_r=1
 

bhramos

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Officials Seek Destination of North Korean Arms(K-100 AWACS killer on board?)
12/14/09 | THOMAS FULLER and DAVID E. SANGER
Posted on Mon Dec 14 2009 21:03:24 GMT+0530 (India Standard Time) by TigerLikesRooster

Officials Seek Destination of North Korean Arms

By THOMAS FULLER and DAVID E. SANGER

BANGKOK, Thailand — A shipment of arms and apparently sophisticated missiles from North Korea seized here on a tip from American intelligence agencies has set off a series of investigations, as officials try to determine whether the cargo was headed to South Asia or the Middle East.

The Obama administration welcomed the interception by the Thai authorities as evidence that it had scored a success in its effort to enforce a United Nations Security Council resolution banning weapons exports by the North Korean government, an attempt to cut off the country’s most profitable export.

A senior White House official in Washington, declining to speak on the record because the interception on Friday had required high-level coordination among intelligence agencies that watched the shipment as it was loaded in Pyongyang, said the seizure was evidence that the administration would “aggressively and rigorously implement” the Security Council resolution, passed in June after North Korea set off its second nuclear test.

The resolution, No. 1874, authorizes any country to inspect and seize North Korean weapons shipments that pass through its territory, regardless of the cargo’s ultimate destination.

/snip

Charles P. Vick, a missile expert at GlobalSecurity.org, a research group in Alexandria, Va., said that if the markings were correct, the rockets might be K-100s, a type of Russian missile designed to destroy sophisticated radar planes. They are advertised as “Awacs killers,” a reference to the Airborne Warning and Control System planes used by the United States, Israel and soon India, which can orchestrate combat plans.

Mr. Vick noted that the diameter and length of the packaged missiles in the photograph appeared to match the specifications of the K-100: 16 inches wide and 20 feet long.
“It’s just a guess,”

But he said it was also possible that the tubular weapons might be smaller artillery rockets packed end to end to fit in the large metallic crates. Those types of rockets are “the kind of thing” that Hamas and Hezbollah use against Israel, he said.

Panitan Wattanayagorn, the Thai government spokesman, said in an interview that the aircraft, a Russian-made Ilyushin 76 registered in Georgia, passed through Bangkok twice — on its way to North Korea and on its return.

Four of the crew members are from Kazakhstan: Mr. Abdullayev, Ilyas Issakov, Aleksandr Zrybney and Vtaliy Shurmnov. The fifth, Mikhail Prtkhou, is from Belarus.

The aircraft was searched on the return journey after the Thai authorities were tipped off by American officials that it might be carrying weapons. The crew members were detained and the cargo was confiscated, but not immediately. The crew members had enough time to buy six large bottles of beer at a duty-free shop, but those were confiscated in the detention center where they have been kept since.

“There’s much more to this story than what has been made public so far,” said Bertil Lintner, an author who has written extensively on North Korea. “Why would you refuel in Thailand?”

Mr. Lintner said that if the aircraft had landed in neighboring Myanmar, which is ruled by generals friendly to the North Korean government, “there would have been no problem.”

No major seizures of weapons have been made public since the passage of Resolution 1874. This summer for about three weeks, the United States Navy tracked a North Korean freighter suspected of carrying banned cargo, and the ship eventually turned back to its home port without incident. The resolution does not permit the boarding of ships on the high seas.

Thomas Fuller reported from Bangkok, and David E. Sanger from Washington. Nice Pojanamesbaanstit contributed reporting from Bangkok, and William J. Broad from New York.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/world/asia/14thai.html?_r=1
 

Dark Sorrow

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“There’s much more to this story than what has been made public so far,” said Bertil Lintner, an author who has written extensively on North Korea. “Why would you refuel in Thailand?”

Mr. Lintner said that if the aircraft had landed in neighboring Myanmar, which is ruled by generals friendly to the North Korean government, “there would have been no problem.”
I have a theory why plane decided to refuel in Thailand and not in Myanmar.
Every normal plane tries to take an direct normal commercial route. To avoid suspension hostile aircraft also tend to take such a route. As China doesnot allow direct passage to North Korea nor does it have a direct commercial route and due to american presence in pakistan and afganistan which directly fall in the route, aircraft generally take a route through south eastern asian countries which are mainly inland countries and porous. To get to middle east all planes have to go through india and refuel atleast once in entire journy. Refueling in India is a risky business taking in account our relation with North Korea and we follow UNSC norms. So these aircraft find it safe to refuel before entering Indian Airspace so they can directly head to their destination(ensure minimum time is spent in Indian Airspace).
Their are 2-3 options for refueling
(1) Thailand
(2) Myanmar
(3) Vietnam
Going to indonesia is offcource. Out of the three above option Vietnam may unappopriate as the distance factor. As we know the situation in Myanmar and its stand is pro-North Korea, anything(goods) coming out(passing through) of this country(Myanmar) orignating from North Korea will generate suspension in eyes of intelligence community. On the other hand goods passing through Thailand won't generate much suspension compaired to the case with Myanmar as Thailand is in American pocket.
Any suspension will tend to be caught(intercepted) in Indian airspace.
 

Dark Sorrow

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A Chauhan,
The longest range of A-A missile depend on the capability and need of its builder.
Here is list of some longest range A-A missile.
(1) KS-172/K-100-1 Novator
Range - 200km to 400km

A version for smaller aircraft is also being developed.
(2) R-37
Range - 150km to 398km

(3) AIM-54 Phoenix
Range - 184km+

Currently it is to early to say anything about Astra. There are lot of speculations about it(Astra).
I would Astra in short/medium ranged BVR while Novator as ultra long ranged BVR.
If you are taking about giving numerical rank then Astra doesnot yet fit in that leage, a lot has to be improved yet.
 
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Russia

India largest foreign buyer of KH-31/KH-35 missiles


Zvezda-Strela has full research, development and production capabilities, including series production. It is working on new types of air-launched missiles evolved from its earlier designs.[1] Zvezda-Strela is one of the corporations authorized to conduct independent export activities,[2] and collaborates with the Russian state arms export company Rosoboroneksport in promoting its products on the international arms market.[3] Its most successful export products are the Kh-35 and Kh-31A/P missiles. The largest foreign customer for Kh-35 missiles is India, which armed several classes of corvettes, frigates, and destroyers with them, and is also considering purchasing the air-launched variant.[4] In early 2001 China was negotiating with Russia for the purchase of the air-launched Kh-35 variant for the Sukhoi Su-30MKK fighters used by China's naval aviation. China also uses the Kh-31P anti-radar missile and has developed a domestic copy of it designated KR-1.[5] Vietnam purchased 32-48 Kh-35 missiles, of which the first 16 were delivered in 1999, for $70 million. Terms of the contract included a 15-year warranty.[6] Kh-35 customers also include Algeria, which purchased the surface-launched variant for use on missile patrol boats.[7]
 

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KS-172 RVV-L | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces

KS-172 RVV-L


purpose: super long range
design bureau: Novator
development: early 1997
1st Air tests: in 1993
length: 7.4 m
diameter: 0.51
wingspan: 0.75
missile wt: 750 kg
warhead wt: 50 kg
envelope: 3 to 30000 m
Range: about 400 km
Guidance: Inertial + active radarhoming
Carried by: Mig-31M; SU-35/37/S-37


he KS-172 may have been based on the airframe of the 9K37M1 Buk-M surface-to-air missile. It used a two-stage rocket engine with a flight speed of about Mach 4 and a claimed maximum range of 400 km (250 mi). The AAM-L flies to the vicinity of the target by inertial navigation, then activates its own active radar for terminal homing.

The AAM-L missile is intended for use against Airborne Early Warning, tanker, and maritime patrol aircraft, giving an air force the ability to attack these vital assets without having to engage their fighter escorts. Enhanced-range versions have also been suggested as possible anti-satellite weapons.

India Starts Defence Exports : Joint Ventures Now yielding rich Dividends


KS -172

- Joint Venture between India's DRDO and Russias NPO Novator.

SpeciFications :

- It is an ultra Long Range AAM with a Development Range of 400KMs To Target AEW/AWAC Type High Value Aircrafts.

- Sole Carrier in the Indian AF will be the Su-30MKI

Features ( Dimensions) :

- 1.4 Meter long Rocket Booster

- Weight 748Kgs

- Core Diameter 0.40 Meter , Total Lenght 6.01 Meters , Span .61 Meters

- Launched by a Solid-propellant Tandem Rocket Booster

- The KS 172 will attack its Targets with an adaptive high explosive ( HE) fragmentation warhead.

Guidance

- Secure Data-Linked Based inertial Navigation System for MidCourse Guidance ( This would probably be done by AWACS or the 2-3 MKIs Working in Tandem with their Mini AWACS Capability)

- Active Radar Homing for its Terminal Phase.

-The missile will be used against air targets flying at altitudes from 3m to 30km with speeds up to 4,000km/h and manoeuvring at up to 12g.

INDO-RUSSO CO-OPERATION

DRDO and NPO will jointly Develop:

- An Active Homing Radar Seeker with a Wide Lock-On Range Which is able to recieve targeting data from the launch AC.

- Design a combined Gas/AeroDynamic Control system with 3d TVC . Provides High Manoeuvrability irrespective of launch Conditions and allows for missle launch with AC in super Manoeuvrability flight mode.

- Create and Adaptive Rapid Reaction Autopilot Which Optimises with Missile Stabilization and control Parameters within the firing range.

- Development of Special Interaction Logic btween the KS-172 Explosive Fuse and Guidance system Which ( In addition to structural and config features) gurantees absolute immunity of the Warhead detonation system to Jamming
How can we partner with Russia for a kind of missile in the range of more then 400km, since already MTCR regime have forced us to minimize the range of Brahmos to less then 300km?
:stinker:
 

kuku

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Its a stupid and weak treaty with many loopholes, like all international bureaucratic frameworks, good for drinking wine and eating cheese.

That said this missile might be vulnerable to a lot of electronic interference at that long a range, however worth it just for the sake of increasing the cost and complexity of any AEWC&C operations against India, just get some even if they don't work properly.

The Russians will put most of the bill on our head and get the R(&D done for free if we go in to this project, the non operational status of this missile and the older than decade reference to this missile in news reports suggests that Russia is not funding or its not interested in the development of this project.
 
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How can we partner with Russia for a kind of missile in the range of more then 400km, since already MTCR regime have forced us to minimize the range of Brahmos to less then 300km?
:stinker:
2 versions can be made by Russia one for themselves and one for India something similar may be done with Brahmos 2 where one is India/Russia joint development and another 1000km range missile maybe India alone??
 
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http://igorrgroup.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html

Russian AAMs. Part 1


In general, the serial Russian air-to-air missiles are divided into 4 families: short-range R-73 (AA-11 'Archer'), median range R-77 (RVV-AE) and R-27 (AA-10 'Alamo') and long range R-33 modifications. All these weapons were developed by the missile design house 'Vympel' and now are manufactured by relative new corporation 'Tactical Missiles Weapon', where 'Vympel' was merged. The upgraded variant of R-33 missile is the 300 km range AA-13 'Arrow' (R-37, K-37, Izdeliye 610 or R-VD), but the fighters with needed radar capability (Su-35) is only entering a serial production. The same is about 'Novator's KS-172 (RVV-L) missile wich extramally long range (400 km) demand according radar capability. The anti-radiation Kh-31 missile previously has only a limited AWACS-kill capability due to the lack of an active radar. The other kinds of new generation missiles are in active development process in Russia and used to be installed on 5th gen PAK-FA/FGFA fighter. They are yet to be de-classified.
 

Armand2REP

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JANE'S MISSILES AND ROCKETS - MARCH 01, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Novator offers a redesigned KS-172S-1 long-range AAM

Sukhoi has displayed a model of the Su-35 multirole fighter carrying under its wings two KS-172S-1 ultra-long range air-to-air missiles, writes Piotr Butowski. The weapon is an export variant of a missile originally offered to the Russian Air Force by the Novator Company of Yekaterinburg.
Well here is what Novator offers for export... just the Klub series of missiles. No AWACs killers. KS-100/172 is dead.

http://www.okb-novator.ru/export.html#
 

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