Nobel winner V Ramakrishnan refuses to attend Indian Science Congress, calls it a 'circus'

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more or less same mentality here as well.
What do you mean? o_O
what came first, energy or matter ?
Together because matter and energy are like two faces of coin. Matter can be changed into energy, energy can be changed into matter.
One again, i too belive in ethics and morals only, and I think religious morals are outdated..despite the desperate attempts to give it a modern interpretation, religious morals still look ugly on several places. I too share your thought that if at all a god exists then he will reward a moral and honest atheist rather than a blind believer. A good rationlaist or atheist will reach heaven/moksha if at all there is any.
A good atheist cares about real issues instead of dreaming of Salvation (Moksha) and Paradise.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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What do you mean? o_O
i mean i also never believed or feared in gohsts etc from childhood..
Together because matter and energy are like two faces of coin. Matter can be changed into energy, energy can be changed into matter.
You mean both existed at the same time from eternity ?
A good atheist cares about real issues instead of dreaming of Salvation (Moksha) and Paradise.
Of course Athiests never bother about those things because he doesn't belive it in in the first place.
 

Peter

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Simple truth
A spade is a spade. It requires a wise and learned man to pronounce the truth in its simplicity, especially in times in which people find it to their advantage to applaud lies. The Indian-born Nobel laureate, Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, refused to attend the just-concluded session of the Indian Science Congress, calling it a "circus". Mr Ramakrishnan's plain-speaking has outraged many, but a glance at some of the papers discussed at the congress would lend credence to his view of this annual event. One of the papers extolled the virtues of blowing a conch, claiming that this would turn white hair black.

:biggrin2::pound::pound:

Another paper, which, thankfully, was not read ultimately, described the god, Shiv, as a proto-environmentalist who, in his divine wisdom, had realized the value of living close to nature long before mortals arrived at the necessity of conservation.


All this should not be dismissed as madness - there is a discernible method to it. Last year, when cows and sadhus were in the ascendant, a paper at the congress had enumerated the achievements of Vedic rishis in the field of aviation. This was in tune with the expressed opinions of certain leaders of a particular political hue who had gone overboard in singing the praises of India's Vedic, Hindu culture. In their enthusiasm, they had dressed up supposition as fact, myth as science.

:biggrin2::bounce::biggrin2::pound:


While politicians can still be pardoned for this - arguably, lies are the tools of their trade - there can be no apology for the people, who, professing to be scientists, deliver hokum.




However, the Indian Science Congress has little relation with serious scientists. This is a pity, since the science congress is a forum in which such greats as Jagadish Chandra Bose and Prafulla Chandra Ray had spoken once. That the standards of the congress have fallen to such abysmal levels now is a comment not just on the spirit of the times but also on what is passed off as scientific research in India. Speaking on the sidelines of the congress, another Nobel-winning scientist, David J. Gross, has shown how hollow the boast of "Make in India" is when there has been no noticeable increase in the budgetary allocation for research and development in science. If there is little money for scientific innovation, is the "make" supposed to refer only to handicrafts? Mr Ramakrishnan is right - the Indian Science Congress is a circus. And in this it is like several other programmes, which are meant to boost the image of India.
:megusta:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160108/jsp/opinion/story_62659.jsp#.Vo9G4xV97IU

@Indx TechStyle
 

DingDong

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Simple truth
A spade is a spade. It requires a wise and learned man to pronounce the truth in its simplicity, especially in times in which people find it to their advantage to applaud lies. The Indian-born Nobel laureate, Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, refused to attend the just-concluded session of the Indian Science Congress, calling it a "circus". Mr Ramakrishnan's plain-speaking has outraged many, but a glance at some of the papers discussed at the congress would lend credence to his view of this annual event. One of the papers extolled the virtues of blowing a conch, claiming that this would turn white hair black.

:biggrin2::pound::pound:

Another paper, which, thankfully, was not read ultimately, described the god, Shiv, as a proto-environmentalist who, in his divine wisdom, had realized the value of living close to nature long before mortals arrived at the necessity of conservation.


All this should not be dismissed as madness - there is a discernible method to it. Last year, when cows and sadhus were in the ascendant, a paper at the congress had enumerated the achievements of Vedic rishis in the field of aviation. This was in tune with the expressed opinions of certain leaders of a particular political hue who had gone overboard in singing the praises of India's Vedic, Hindu culture. In their enthusiasm, they had dressed up supposition as fact, myth as science.

:biggrin2::bounce::biggrin2::pound:


While politicians can still be pardoned for this - arguably, lies are the tools of their trade - there can be no apology for the people, who, professing to be scientists, deliver hokum.




However, the Indian Science Congress has little relation with serious scientists. This is a pity, since the science congress is a forum in which such greats as Jagadish Chandra Bose and Prafulla Chandra Ray had spoken once. That the standards of the congress have fallen to such abysmal levels now is a comment not just on the spirit of the times but also on what is passed off as scientific research in India. Speaking on the sidelines of the congress, another Nobel-winning scientist, David J. Gross, has shown how hollow the boast of "Make in India" is when there has been no noticeable increase in the budgetary allocation for research and development in science. If there is little money for scientific innovation, is the "make" supposed to refer only to handicrafts? Mr Ramakrishnan is right - the Indian Science Congress is a circus. And in this it is like several other programmes, which are meant to boost the image of India.
:megusta:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160108/jsp/opinion/story_62659.jsp#.Vo9G4xV97IU

@Indx TechStyle
But the same guy won't find it problematic to attend science congresses where people talk about Perpetual Machines and Time Travels.

The real issue is that Brown Men are so keen to disconnect themselves from their roots which they treat as dead load.

The article is extremely opinionated.
 

pmaitra

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2. Sorry who told you that but you have a mathematical proof for every angle formula out there. Mathematics never deals in empirical proofs
Mathematics does deal with empirical proofs. It is called an observation, and in some cases referred to as a posteriori. To eliminate the possibility of arriving at a conclusion by fluke, the experiment is repeated multiple times on the dataset and the observations collected. Once the observations are collected, if there is consistency, it is taken to be a fact.

________________________________

4. That's what I am saying Einstein was proven false because his theory failed experimental test, and yes his special theory of relativity was experimentally shown to be true. And do you see any experimental evidence for Astrology. Any proof of the fact ki brahspati aur budh ek ghar mein nahi hone chaiye kyunki, budh jo hai tara ka beta tha from chandra but tara rishi brahspati ki patni thi, isliye brahpati can't bear him . Any proof and reason. Einstien was wrong for eg when he was against quantum mechanics and he was proven wrong, why because quantum mechanics had results backing it.
Even Newton said that light travels in a straight line, but turned out, light can bend with gravity.

As humanity learns more things about the Universe, older understandings are adjusted/modified.corrected. Most wise scientific commentators leave room for the possibility of error, and use terms like "most likely" and "appears to be," and also cite other research that both confirms and contradict certain hypotheses. Any "research" that sounds too confident should be subjected to scrutiny. To be fair, all research should be scrutinized.
________________________________


Nahi ji pata nahi apne kaunsi maths padhi hai apne but a straight line is what I have defined. a line with curvature 0. Anyways I can see when someone moves from tark to kutark, and how it's futile to discuss with people of rigid opinion.
Allow me to assure you that my Mathematics is not as weak as you assume.
Now tell me what is the meaning of Curvature 0? :pound:Define it independently if you can.

There is absolutely no rigorous definition of a Straight Line, just like there exists absolutely no definition of Time. Similarly, Force and Mass cannot be defined independently.
Once can have a straight line on a hyperplane. If the hyperplane is curved, which it usually is, then the straight line on the hyperplane will have a curvature. I am not sure what is implied by the statement "curvature 0." I know Bezier points can be used to define a curve or complex nature. Classification problems usually transform n-dimensional data into lower dimensions, or re-orient the dimensional axes to focus on the most relevant few dimensions, such as in Principal Component Analysis, and in such cases, a line that is not straight in n-dimensional space, can be a straight line if reduced to two dimensions, the Principal Component and the Component that is next to the Principal Component.
 

Ancient Indian

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Dont misunderstand genuine science or rational calculations and observations with irrational things and pseudo scince. Vedic mathamatics, calenders, ayurveda all are by and large scientific and genuine..scientific community acknowledge it. So its not anything against things which are ancient, othewise all those things would not have been acknowledged as genuine. Astrology on the other hand is widely studied and been proven to be a pseudo science.so i would go with the opinion of the majority scientific community.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/skepticism/blfaq_astro_sci_pseudo.htm
I am already saying that astrology is genuine science.
Can you define pseudo science and genuine science?
Just because a set of people stick to one stream of thought that doesn't make other branches any less credible.

My arguments are based on recent findings I had done in this field. I strongly support astrology as science.

Lets scrap Identity of ours as human.
Consider Human as set of matter and few energy functions. You have to avoid all the emotional crap about human. Also universe on another paper. Compare both in terms of behavior and overall structure.

You may get some kind of intro into these things.
 

Ancient Indian

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Forget about my ramblings.
Simple truth
A spade is a spade. It requires a wise and learned man to pronounce the truth in its simplicity, especially in times in which people find it to their advantage to applaud lies. The Indian-born Nobel laureate, Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, refused to attend the just-concluded session of the Indian Science Congress, calling it a "circus". Mr Ramakrishnan's plain-speaking has outraged many, but a glance at some of the papers discussed at the congress would lend credence to his view of this annual event. One of the papers extolled the virtues of blowing a conch, claiming that this would turn white hair black.

:biggrin2::pound::pound:

Another paper, which, thankfully, was not read ultimately, described the god, Shiv, as a proto-environmentalist who, in his divine wisdom, had realized the value of living close to nature long before mortals arrived at the necessity of conservation.


All this should not be dismissed as madness - there is a discernible method to it. Last year, when cows and sadhus were in the ascendant, a paper at the congress had enumerated the achievements of Vedic rishis in the field of aviation. This was in tune with the expressed opinions of certain leaders of a particular political hue who had gone overboard in singing the praises of India's Vedic, Hindu culture. In their enthusiasm, they had dressed up supposition as fact, myth as science.

:biggrin2::bounce::biggrin2::pound:


While politicians can still be pardoned for this - arguably, lies are the tools of their trade - there can be no apology for the people, who, professing to be scientists, deliver hokum.




However, the Indian Science Congress has little relation with serious scientists. This is a pity, since the science congress is a forum in which such greats as Jagadish Chandra Bose and Prafulla Chandra Ray had spoken once. That the standards of the congress have fallen to such abysmal levels now is a comment not just on the spirit of the times but also on what is passed off as scientific research in India. Speaking on the sidelines of the congress, another Nobel-winning scientist, David J. Gross, has shown how hollow the boast of "Make in India" is when there has been no noticeable increase in the budgetary allocation for research and development in science. If there is little money for scientific innovation, is the "make" supposed to refer only to handicrafts? Mr Ramakrishnan is right - the Indian Science Congress is a circus. And in this it is like several other programmes, which are meant to boost the image of India.
:megusta:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160108/jsp/opinion/story_62659.jsp#.Vo9G4xV97IU

@Indx TechStyle
One of the papers extolled the virtues of blowing a conch, claiming that this would turn white hair black.
So blowing conch is just some random mundane thing which happens with out any scientific process.

I have one question for you.
How come people who practice pranayama seem to have glowing fave less sets of wrinkles and less grey hair?
They are just some stupid breathing exercises right?
All this should not be dismissed as madness - there is a discernible method to it. Last year, when cows and sadhus were in the ascendant, a paper at the congress had enumerated the achievements of Vedic rishis in the field of aviation. This was in tune with the expressed opinions of certain leaders of a particular political hue who had gone overboard in singing the praises of India's Vedic, Hindu culture. In their enthusiasm, they had dressed up supposition as fact, myth as science.
So our vedic Rishis are dumb idiots who know next to nothing about any thing.
 

pmaitra

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Forget about my ramblings.


So blowing conch is just some random mundane thing which happens with out any scientific process.

I have one question for you.
How come people who practice pranayama seem to have glowing fave less sets of wrinkles and less grey hair?
They are just some stupid breathing exercises right?

So our vedic Rishis are dumb idiots who know next to nothing about any thing.
I think when we become passionate about something, we tend to fail to reason.

Blowing conch shells might actually help in preventing whitening of hair, but what is the explanation for it? Without the explanation, this is not science. Has there been any experiment done on a large enough sample set that shows the empirical evidence of this?

Some ancient custom says when you wake up, rub your palms and press them onto your face to wake up fully. This might or might not be true, but the purpose of science is to explain it. The explanation is, when we rub our palms, the palms get charged and when the charge is transferred to the face, the face tissues are energized.

Now saying everything is false. However, I do not, for a moment, believe in some of the things that are being propagated in recent times - one of them is this Vimana theory.
 

Agnostic_Indian

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I am already saying that astrology is genuine science.
Can you define pseudo science and genuine science?
Just because a set of people stick to one stream of thought that doesn't make other branches any less credible.

My arguments are based on recent findings I had done in this field. I strongly support astrology as science.

Lets scrap Identity of ours as human.
Consider Human as set of matter and few energy functions. You have to avoid all the emotional crap about human. Also universe on another paper. Compare both in terms of behavior and overall structure.

You may get some kind of intro into these things.
The rational to call astrology a pseudo science is all there in the links i have provided to you.
Since you seems to know astrology can you tell me a or give a link which explains basics of astrological calculations, how is some palnets seens as bad and other palnets as or what ever logics behind astrology.
 

Ancient Indian

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I think when we become passionate about something, we tend to fail to reason.

Blowing conch shells might actually help in preventing whitening of hair, but what is the explanation for it? Without the explanation, this is not science. Has there been any experiment done on a large enough sample set that shows the empirical evidence of this?

Some ancient custom says when you wake up, rub your palms and press them onto your face to wake up fully. This might or might not be true, but the purpose of science is to explain it. The explanation is, when we rub our palms, the palms get charged and when the charge is transferred to the face, the face tissues are energized.

Now saying everything is false. However, I do not, for a moment, believe in some of the things that are being propagated in recent times - one of them is this Vimana theory.
Blowing conch shells might actually help in preventing whitening of hair, but what is the explanation for it? Without the explanation, this is not science. Has there been any experiment done on a large enough sample set that shows the empirical evidence of this?
Breathing is main characteristic of The Ultimate energy what ever the word physicist call it.

You can control every thing in your body by doing pranayama. Our texts say this
To make your grey hair turn black, there are enough exercises in hatha yoga.
one of them is this Vimana theory.
http://upload.vedpuran.net/Uploads/121113the_vimanika_shastra.pdf
Read this book. Just don't yous your religious lens when scanning the pages.
 

pmaitra

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Astrology certainly has a lot of science in it, such as the mathematical computations that go into predicting where the planet will be when I am 25 years old, but beyond that point, it all becomes a discourse that has to rely on hopes and faith.

I think it is appropriate to call astrology a pseudo-science.
 

Ancient Indian

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The rational to call astrology a pseudo science is all there in the links i have provided to you.
Since you seems to know astrology can you tell me a or give a link which explains basics of astrological calculations, how is some palnets seens as bad and other palnets as or what ever logics behind astrology.
I told you these things are kept away with some sect of Brahmins. Asking them to give me books take time.
Wait some time, we may get new material on this in few years.
 

pmaitra

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Breathing is main characteristic of The Ultimate energy what ever the word physicist call it.

You can control every thing in your body by doing pranayama. Our texts say this
To make your grey hair turn black, there are enough exercises in hatha yoga.

http://upload.vedpuran.net/Uploads/121113the_vimanika_shastra.pdf
Read this book. Just don't yous your religious lens when scanning the pages.
Help me out please. Can you pin-point the page number in the PDF where it says that blowing a conch will turn white hair to black?
 

Ancient Indian

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Astrology certainly has a lot of science in it, such as the mathematical computations that go into predicting where the planet will be when I am 25 years old, but beyond that point, it all becomes a discourse that has to rely on hopes and faith.

I think it is appropriate to call astrology a pseudo-science.
Because when you give some thing to some one who has no idea about it, It will become joke.
 

pmaitra

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Because when you give some thing to some one who has no idea about it, It will become joke.
I believe in astrology. I just don't treat it as science. I treat is as a faith. I don't have thorough knowledge about it. It is not a matter of joke for me.
 

Ancient Indian

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Help me out please. Can you pin-point the page number in the PDF where it says that blowing a conch will turn white hair to black?
pdf is about Vimana theory.

Turning grey hair to black is different. It is yogic practice. How can I show you in words?
 

Ancient Indian

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I believe in astrology. I just don't treat it as science. I treat is as a faith. I don't have thorough knowledge about it. It is not a matter of joke for me.
With out science, how is he predicting you?
Come on, that is wonky statement you made.
 

pmaitra

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pdf is about Vimana theory.

Turning grey hair to black is different. It is yogic practice. How can I show you in words?
I have read about Vimana theory earlier as well. I won't read it unless you should me what part of that PDF explains how an aerofoil works.

Regarding turning hair from white to black, true, you cannot show me in words. So, we will have to take one's words for it.
 

pmaitra

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With out science, how is he predicting you?
Come on, that is wonky statement you made.
He is predicting nothing with science. He is only computing the positions of the planets using science. Now, with the positions of planets in hand, thanks to science, he comes up with a lot of predictions. "If Saturn is here, this will happen" - types of predictions. There is no science involved in that.

Nothing wonky.
 

Ancient Indian

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I have read about Vimana theory earlier as well. I won't read it unless you should me what part of that PDF explains how an aerofoil works.

Regarding turning hair from white to black, true, you cannot show me in words. So, we will have to take one's words for it.
I have full sankrit version of it.
give some time, have to dig it.
 

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