No Women at the Top in China

kickok1975

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I suggest Ray spend a little more time worrying about India instead of China. It's just topic after topic to bash China. If you are so keen on China, please spend more time on building a constructive relationship that would benefit both.

China doesn't have many women on top of the ranking, but Chinese women enjoy some of the highest status and social recognition among Asian countries. Most of Chinese women are working and actively involved in social activity. 2/3 of Olympic gold medal were won by Chinese women and most Chinese women are real bosses in their family. If you have opportunity to visit China, you can have a first hand experience of their self esteem and confidence.

I hope we all respect women, not only on word.
 

Ray

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Considering that women's rights are neglected more in India that in China, I'd say this is one of those "pot calling the kettle black" situations.
A nation that prevent a woman from her God given and natural anatomical process of giving birth and deprives her of having a child and instead force a cruel abortion and a nation that thinks money can recompense the woman of her biological process is hardly the one to talk about women equality or welfare.

Inhuman and unnatural to say the least.
 

Ray

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I suggest Ray spend a little more time worrying about India instead of China. It's just topic after topic to bash China. If you are so keen on China, please spend more time on building a constructive relationship that would benefit both.

China doesn't have many women on top of the ranking, but Chinese women enjoy some of the highest status and social recognition among Asian countries. Most of Chinese women are working and actively involved in social activity. 2/3 of Olympic gold medal were won by Chinese women and most Chinese women are real bosses in their family. If you have opportunity to visit China, you can have a first hand experience of their self esteem and confidence.

I hope we all respect women, not only on word.
I suggest you keep to the topic.

The greatest recognition to womanhood is equality at the highest level.

Olympics does not change the status of gradation.

Merely makes them celebrities and nothing more.

In most country women run the household. Nothing new!

Further, please understand the Indian culture and the respect given to women.

Pakistan and Bangladesh and even Sri Lanka was a part of British India.

Pakistan and Bangaldesh are Muslim countries and should be very conservative if one taken the Muslim culture in view.

And yet, because they formed a part of India and imbibed the way women are honoured and given equal opportunities,s they like India had and have women as the Head of the State.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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I am sure as an indian you truelly know the place of woman in society.

The female labor participation rate is 68 percent in China compared to 29 percent in India. I hope one day when situation has improved in China, you will finally take a look at your own country. :rolleyes:

Labor participation rate, female (% of female population ages 15+) | Data | Table

--------------------------------------------------------------



Infraction given..

Kunal Biswas

Let keep things straight here..

Keep thread on rail and on thread topic..
 

kickok1975

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I suggest you keep to the topic.

The greatest recognition to womanhood is equality at the highest level.

Olympics does not change the status of gradation.

Merely makes them celebrities and nothing more.

In most country women run the household. Nothing new!
Ray, having a female president or PM doesn't necessary mean women have a good social status in a country. In 2011 global gender gap report, India is just ranked at 113 whereas China at 61. That's a huge difference I would say. I also believe you know better about the real Indian women status than I do.

Here is link: Global Gender Gap | World Economic Forum - Global Gender Gap
 
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Kunal Biswas

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@kickok1975,

I am in India and what i see is woman are Construction workers not only but also soldiers & Officers, Teachers & doctor's which is most and nurses, IT industry where they are Software engg & Net engg, Rocket Scientists, Housewife and most importantly mother..

----------------------------------------------------

India is not perfect and no one is, But what can be done is to work against which is wrong..
 

amoy

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I suggest you keep to the topic.

The greatest recognition to womanhood is equality at the highest level.

Olympics does not change the status of gradation.

Merely makes them celebrities and nothing more.

In most country women run the household. Nothing new!

Further, please understand the Indian culture and the respect given to women.
I beg to differ . A few women holding top spots is not the "greatest recognition" for womanhood, needless to mention people like Queen Elizabeth inherited the crown rather than "earned" it. That's only about the "cream". Let's look at the masses of grassroots

Maybe u feel abhorrent of "proletarian" or "socialist" or "communist" propaganda, but the truth in China is an all-out involvement of women in almost every walk of life. Of course here we have to touch "cultural" aspect again, Chinese men and women nowadays regard a high ratio of working women instead of being merely housewives, as a key indicator of social status (unlike perhaps Indian or Muslim traditions). I recall a French poster has lots of interactions with Chinese girls :p

And outstanding athletic performance of women in Olympics also testifies to the above mentioned broad participation of women in social life.

Human nations development index Indices & Data | Human Development Index | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) tells a lot about women in China and India. :namaste:
 
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kickok1975

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@kickok1975,

I am in India and what i see is woman are Construction workers not only but also soldiers & Officers, Teachers & doctor's which is most and nurses, IT industry where they are Software engg & Net engg, Rocket Scientists, Housewife and most importantly mother..

----------------------------------------------------

India is not perfect and no one is, But what can be done is to work against which is wrong..
That is what I want to say: Both China and India have more works to do to improve women status. After all they are our mothers, sisters and daughters.

But the thread was created as an women topic to attack China and China was labeled as treating women as sub human. It's outrageouse and grossly unfair.
 

Ray

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Ray, having a female president or PM doesn't necessary mean women have a good social status in a country. In 2011 global gender gap report, India is just ranked at 113 whereas China at 61. That's a huge difference I would say. I also believe you know better about the real Indian women status than I do.

Here is link: Global Gender Gap | World Economic Forum - Global Gender Gap
I would respectfully disagree.

Having a woman Head of Govt gives a great degree of leeway to enhance the status of women.

I won't give the example of India because it is superfluous to mention that many women who are at the helm of their States, except to say there were great ladies who were in the spearhead of the Indian Independence Movement. That is not being Heads of Govt, but fighting side by side with men as equaks and going into jail, when such things were not heard of in Indian society. You may Google and not just take my word for it.

It is a well known fact that Muslims countries are obscurantists and highly bigoted. Yet, the Indian influence has produced three Muslim women who have headed their countries (Pakistan and Bangladesh). Their influence has done much to change the outlook of society of these Muslim nations.

You may see this one example:

Bangladesh: Increased gender equality brings quality to life - Diakonia

Today, with education and two income families in India, things are changing.

If we had a Govt that could order and enforce everyone to be educated and work, then things would have been better.

Sadly, democracy is not a perfect system!

I beg to differ . A few women holding top spots is not "greatest recognition" for womanhood, needless to mention people like Queen Elizabeth inherited the crown rather than "earn" it. That's about a few elites in the tower of ivory, or the cream Let's look at the masses of grassroots (Chinese women = nearly 50% of 1.38bln)

Maybe u feel abhorrent of "proletarian" or "socialist" or "communist" propaganda, but the truth in China is all-out involvement of women in almost every walk of life. Of course here we have to touch "cultural" aspect again, Chinese men and women nowadays regard high ratio of working women instead of being merely housewives, as a key indicator of high social status (unlike perhaps Indian or Muslim traditions). I recall a Frenchman has some 1st-hand experience with Chinese girls :p

And outstanding athletic performance of women in Olympics testify to the above mentioned broad involvement of women in social life.

It's not difficult to search on line Human nations development index Indices & Data | Human Development Index | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) which tells a lot about women in China and India. :namaste:
That is selective dissection.

Apart from not one, but two Queens, what about the rest?

They are no Queens or hereditary bigwigs!

In every walk of life in India there are women who head organisations and also have excelled in sports and other fields.

Indian women are not only heading organisations in India, but also doing so abroad, in countries where racial prejudice is not quite that absent.

In Communist countries and erstwhile Communist countries, athletes do well because they have an organised programme to BUILD athletes.

Now that Communism is not there in these countries, they are slowly waning away.

Totalitarianism has its positives too!



That is what I want to say: Both China and India have more works to do to improve women status. After all they are our mothers, sisters and daughters.

But the thread was created as an women topic to attack China and China was labeled as treating women as sub human. It's outrageouse and grossly unfair.
The world is unfair.

If it were not so, then why does China have the best of athletes? ;)

When China is excelling in all fields, one is curious as to why the Chinese women are not in top slots.

There must be some good reasons.

What are they?

That is the question and the interest.
 
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Ray

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China has put a woman in space!

So it is intriguing that if Chinese women are capable of such a spectacular feat, why are they not in top slots to guide the destiny of China!

I cannot, for the life of me, believe that the Chinese women are handicapped in that field.

There must be some good reasons.

What are they is the question.
 

amoy

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Thanks to Mr Kickoff, we have a neutral 3rd party report :p

A good comparison - The Global Gender Gap Report 2011: Rankings and Scores

btwn a "totalitarian" China and a "democratic" India http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GGGR11/GGGR11_Rankings-Scores.pdf on parameters incl.

>>>>>overall rank/score
>>economic participation and opportunity
>>educational attainment
>>health and survival
>>political empowerment



ooooops, India no.113, vs. China no. 61. And a communist Cuba ranks #20?

My God, what went wrong? There must be good reasons. Chinese fudging figures?
 
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Ray

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Thanks to Mr Kickoff, we have a neutral3rd party report :p

A good comparison - The Global Gender Gap Report 2011: Rankings and Scores

btwn a "totalitarian" China and a "democratic" India http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GGGR11/GGGR11_Rankings-Scores.pdf

ooooops, India no.113, vs. China no. 61

My God, what went wrong? there must be good reasons. can't be Chinese fudging figures?
Are we talking of gender gap or are we talking about women excelling to reach the top slot?

It is like saying why have Chinese men less hair on their body than Indians.

As irrelevant as that!

The issue under discussion, in cas eyou missed it, is Women at Top Slots.

Do you people really understand English?
 

J20!

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Are we talking of gender gap or are we talking about women excelling to reach the top slot?

It is like saying why have Chinese men less hair on their body than Indians.

As irrelevant as that!

The issue under discussion, in cas eyou missed it, is Women at Top Slots.

Do you people really understand English?
Who told you women in China don't enjoy positions of power? Stop pretending to know about OUR country and just bloody ask for once in your life.

Could you for once get off your anti-China bias and actually look at figures... Who told you women in China are subhuman? Making things up just makes you look sad and desperate.

Richest Self-Made Women Billionaires 2012 | Celebrity Net Worth

Forbes 2012 billionaires list shows that the highest number of self-made billionaire women come from China
Is there a single Indian woman on that list? Yet as usual you're pretending to be better than us... Of the 14 self made female billionaires, 6 are Chinese. And guess who tops the list? A Chinese woman.Hahaha! you cant steamroll your way out of this one.

Try bashing China with something else.
 
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nimo_cn

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Are we talking of gender gap or are we talking about women excelling to reach the top slot?

It is like saying why have Chinese men less hair on their body than Indians.

As irrelevant as that!

The issue under discussion, in cas eyou missed it, is Women at Top Slots.

Do you people really understand English?
The president of India is just a puppy, being put on that spot is not at Top.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/world/asia/04iht-letter04.html?pagewanted=all

NEW DELHI — As its winter session wound down last week, it was clear that the Indian Parliament would remain a male bastion for the near future. The lower house, almost 90 percent male in its composition, had ensured that a bill intended to increase the number of female members would not be passed for at least another year.

In March 2010, feminists and women's organizations had celebrated the passage of the Women's Reservation Bill in the upper house, after a fierce 13-year debate among political parties. It seemed then that a battle of some significance had been won.

The bill would amend the Constitution to reserve one-third of seats in Parliament and in state assemblies for women. Despite sometimes chaotic proceedings in the upper house, the final vote was nearly unanimous, with 191 votes for and one against. When it passed, Brinda Karat, a member from the Communist Party of India and a longtime campaigner for women's rights, spoke for many when she said: "The bill will change the culture of the country, because women today are still caught in a cultural prison. We have to fight stereotypes every day."

The numbers bear her out. India's first Parliament had roughly 4.4 percent women in the lower house. The framers of the Indian Constitution had assumed that the number of women would increase on its own, as the country developed. But the number of women members of Parliament has remained low in the more than six decades since Indian independence.

The present Parliament, India's 15th, has 59 women in the 545-seat lower house, or 10.8 percent, and 24 women in the 242-seat upper house, or just short of 10 percent. According to the Inter-Parliamentary Union, the Geneva-based international organization of parliaments, the worldwide average of female representatives in national parliaments is 19.3 percent, which places India at the lower end of the scale.

To take effect, the proposed amendment must be ratified by the lower house before being approved by at least half of India's state legislatures and the president. But what some had expected, after the 2010 victory, to be little more than a formality in the lower house has turned into yet another exhausting round of battles.

The primary opposition to the bill appears to come from the complexities of caste-based politics. An oft-repeated objection was summarized by Sharad Yadav, a member of Parliament who in 2010 declared that the bill would "only help upper-caste elite women get elected." The basic argument, made by political parties like the Bahujan Samaj Party, which represents mostly lower castes, and Mr. Yadav's own Janata Dal (United), is that quotas for women will come at the expense of the disadvantaged and the Muslim minority.

Many analysts, like the academic Zoya Hasan, would disagree. In an article published in 2004, Ms. Hasan, a political science professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, made a more blunt argument: that resistance to quotas for women has been driven more by male politicians' fears of losing their seats. "The relentless opposition to the Women's Reservation Bill since it was tabled in the Lok Sabha" — the lower house — "points to a more substantial and determined opposition that goes beyond the so-called caste parties mentioned above — indeed, it cuts across caste, class and party boundaries," she wrote. "The most strident opposition to women's quotas has come from male politicians who fear that their political careers would be put at risk."

Setting aside seats for women would require male members of Parliament to give up about 180 seats in the lower house — a substantial sacrifice of power in an institution that has seen female prime ministers and female speakers, but few female members. Unlike members of the upper house, members of the lower house are directly elected and therefore more likely to be swayed by local electoral politics and caste, class and ethnic interests.

Although the debate over the bill focuses on the possible setbacks for disadvantaged castes, it rarely addresses whether quotas for women are of themselves desirable. This might be in part because of what is widely considered the success of quotas for women at the village level, in what are known as the "panchayati," or local council elections. In an influential 2003 study, the economists Esther Duflo and Raghabendra Chattopadhyay examined how the experiment had worked.

"Despite the handicaps they may face in terms of education and prior experience, and the preconception of weak leadership, women have a real impact on policy decisions," they concluded. Female council heads, they found, tended to give higher priority than their male counterparts to issues like public health and education.

The difference more women in Parliament might make could involve what issues are on the agenda, or more subtle differences in the working culture of the houses. For now, the 59 women in the lower house are not in a position to make a collective difference. Given that India has never had a Parliament where women have an equal voice, it's not easy to imagine what a more representative legislature would look like.

As 2012 begins, even the bill's most ardent supporters acknowledge that India's female members of Parliament have a battle on their hands. But some took heart from a statement made by the president of the Indian National Congress party, Sonia Gandhi, the widow of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.

As the winter session of Parliament drew to a close with parties debating a proposal, which ultimately failed, to set up an anti-corruption ombudsman, Mrs. Gandhi mentioned the Women's Reservation Bill and pledged to fight for its eventual passage in the lower house.

The first female president of the Indian National Congress party, the poet-politician Sarojini Naidu, would have approved. As a young leader of India's independence movement, Ms. Naidu was among a score of women who campaigned for the right to vote. It took them from 1917, when the Indian National Congress party backed women's sufferage, to 1926, when women could vote and run for some state legislatures, to see the first changes, and then several more years before all women in India had the right to cast ballots.

"I am only a woman," Ms. Naidu said disarmingly, as she began a 1917 speech to the chiefly male stalwarts of the Indian National Congress. Nine years later, she had what she wanted: the right for women to vote along with the men. It had taken, like most political victories in India for women, a great deal of time and patience.
 

Ray

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I suggest Ray spend a little more time worrying about India instead of China. It's just topic after topic to bash China. If you are so keen on China, please spend more time on building a constructive relationship that would benefit both.

China doesn't have many women on top of the ranking, but Chinese women enjoy some of the highest status and social recognition among Asian countries. Most of Chinese women are working and actively involved in social activity. 2/3 of Olympic gold medal were won by Chinese women and most Chinese women are real bosses in their family. If you have opportunity to visit China, you can have a first hand experience of their self esteem and confidence.

I hope we all respect women, not only on word.
And how does this become on Topic?
 

Ray

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The president of India is just a puppy, being put on that spot is not at Top.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/world/asia/04iht-letter04.html?pagewanted=all

NEW DELHI — As its winter session wound down last week, it was clear that the Indian Parliament would remain a male bastion for the near future. The lower house, almost 90 percent male in its composition, had ensured that a bill intended to increase the number of female members would not be passed for at least another year.

In March 2010, feminists and women's organizations had celebrated the passage of the Women's Reservation Bill in the upper house, after a fierce 13-year debate among political parties. It seemed then that a battle of some significance had been won.

The bill would amend the Constitution to reserve one-third of seats in Parliament and in state assemblies for women. Despite sometimes chaotic proceedings in the upper house, the final vote was nearly unanimous, with 191 votes for and one against. When it passed, Brinda Karat, a member from the Communist Party of India and a longtime campaigner for women's rights, spoke for many when she said: "The bill will change the culture of the country, because women today are still caught in a cultural prison. We have to fight stereotypes every day."

The numbers bear her out. India's first Parliament had roughly 4.4 percent women in the lower house. The framers of the Indian Constitution had assumed that the number of women would increase on its own, as the country developed. But the number of women members of Parliament has remained low in the more than six decades since Indian independence.

The present Parliament, India's 15th, has 59 women in the 545-seat lower house, or 10.8 percent, and 24 women in the 242-seat upper house, or just short of 10 percent. According to the Inter-Parliamentary Union, the Geneva-based international organization of parliaments, the worldwide average of female representatives in national parliaments is 19.3 percent, which places India at the lower end of the scale.

To take effect, the proposed amendment must be ratified by the lower house before being approved by at least half of India's state legislatures and the president. But what some had expected, after the 2010 victory, to be little more than a formality in the lower house has turned into yet another exhausting round of battles.

The primary opposition to the bill appears to come from the complexities of caste-based politics. An oft-repeated objection was summarized by Sharad Yadav, a member of Parliament who in 2010 declared that the bill would "only help upper-caste elite women get elected." The basic argument, made by political parties like the Bahujan Samaj Party, which represents mostly lower castes, and Mr. Yadav's own Janata Dal (United), is that quotas for women will come at the expense of the disadvantaged and the Muslim minority.

Many analysts, like the academic Zoya Hasan, would disagree. In an article published in 2004, Ms. Hasan, a political science professor at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi, made a more blunt argument: that resistance to quotas for women has been driven more by male politicians' fears of losing their seats. "The relentless opposition to the Women's Reservation Bill since it was tabled in the Lok Sabha" — the lower house — "points to a more substantial and determined opposition that goes beyond the so-called caste parties mentioned above — indeed, it cuts across caste, class and party boundaries," she wrote. "The most strident opposition to women's quotas has come from male politicians who fear that their political careers would be put at risk."

Setting aside seats for women would require male members of Parliament to give up about 180 seats in the lower house — a substantial sacrifice of power in an institution that has seen female prime ministers and female speakers, but few female members. Unlike members of the upper house, members of the lower house are directly elected and therefore more likely to be swayed by local electoral politics and caste, class and ethnic interests.

Although the debate over the bill focuses on the possible setbacks for disadvantaged castes, it rarely addresses whether quotas for women are of themselves desirable. This might be in part because of what is widely considered the success of quotas for women at the village level, in what are known as the "panchayati," or local council elections. In an influential 2003 study, the economists Esther Duflo and Raghabendra Chattopadhyay examined how the experiment had worked.

"Despite the handicaps they may face in terms of education and prior experience, and the preconception of weak leadership, women have a real impact on policy decisions," they concluded. Female council heads, they found, tended to give higher priority than their male counterparts to issues like public health and education.

The difference more women in Parliament might make could involve what issues are on the agenda, or more subtle differences in the working culture of the houses. For now, the 59 women in the lower house are not in a position to make a collective difference. Given that India has never had a Parliament where women have an equal voice, it's not easy to imagine what a more representative legislature would look like.

As 2012 begins, even the bill's most ardent supporters acknowledge that India's female members of Parliament have a battle on their hands. But some took heart from a statement made by the president of the Indian National Congress party, Sonia Gandhi, the widow of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi.

As the winter session of Parliament drew to a close with parties debating a proposal, which ultimately failed, to set up an anti-corruption ombudsman, Mrs. Gandhi mentioned the Women's Reservation Bill and pledged to fight for its eventual passage in the lower house.

The first female president of the Indian National Congress party, the poet-politician Sarojini Naidu, would have approved. As a young leader of India's independence movement, Ms. Naidu was among a score of women who campaigned for the right to vote. It took them from 1917, when the Indian National Congress party backed women's sufferage, to 1926, when women could vote and run for some state legislatures, to see the first changes, and then several more years before all women in India had the right to cast ballots.

"I am only a woman," Ms. Naidu said disarmingly, as she began a 1917 speech to the chiefly male stalwarts of the Indian National Congress. Nine years later, she had what she wanted: the right for women to vote along with the men. It had taken, like most political victories in India for women, a great deal of time and patience.
How is this On topic?

You are talking about a Bill.

At least we have women democratically elected.

Do you have that choice?

Democratically elected by the People?

At best, they will be appointed based on their loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party

What is to be known that you may not understand being from a totalitarian regime, is that in a democracy it means peoples' representatives are elected by the people.

This 'quota' business is basically a socialist attitude which is half way home.

One has to have stature to get elected. Indira Gandhi would not require a 'quota' to be elected. She had stature and was taken to be a person who can deliver. She got elected on her own steam. And there are many like her.

Does the UK, UK , France or Germany have quotas for women?

The President of India to you maybe a puppy since you do not understand the Indian Constitution, and by that token the Chinese people as a whole are running dogs of the Communist Party, who have sold their soul and have no voice of their own!
 
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J20!

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Are we talking of gender gap or are we talking about women excelling to reach the top slot?

It is like saying why have Chinese men less hair on their body than Indians.

As irrelevant as that!

The issue under discussion, in cas eyou missed it, is Women at Top Slots.

Do you people really understand English?
Factors that make up the overall score are these:

>>economic participation and opportunity
>>educational attainment
>>health and survival
>>political empowerment

I don't see how those three factors in bold are "irrelevant" to the discussion. Women need equal education and political empowerment and economic participation and opportunity to rival men in the economic, social and political spheres of a country. Women cant be "on" top without those three...

You're pulling out the "off topic" card because you're losing the debate. Are they just "irrelevant" because China is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of India on the list?
 

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