No Rafales at Frisian flag exercise. Why? Something to hide?

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by jouni, Sep 14, 2014.

  1. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
  2.  
  3. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Probably because there were no Flankers either. :lol:
     
    pmaitra likes this.
  4. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Whats there to hide, maybe no proper competition:rolleyes:



    The Aviationist � Rare video shows F-22 Raptor shot down by the French Rafale in mock air-to-air combat
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  5. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Based on this video, those french pilots should go easy on the wine and cigars and go jogging instead...
     
    Illusive likes this.
  6. Meriv90

    Meriv90 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    123
    Location:
    Venice
    Just wondering why all the need of NATO, since Finnish fighters have ACE kill ratios and 4 1/2 generation fighters down a fifth generation fighter like nothing, lets just give rafales to the Finnish and stomp down everyone...

    What were the ROEs? And the simulation? giving data like that is useless.

    On the video, Eurofighter too took down the F22, after all we are talking about WVR combat, if I remember correctly even a T-38 took down a F22 with that conditions.

    Hostage: Virtual Training Needed To Address Limits of Red Flag | Defense News | defensenews.com
     
    AVERAGE INDIAN, jouni and pmaitra like this.
  7. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    I would also like to find out more about the exercise. Only thing I could find was the speech of the commander of the air wing that send the planes to the exercise. In the speech he mentioned the kill ratio as an example of how Finnish air force is "one of the most efficient in Europe". That kill ratio is nothing special, in the last war it was 1:29,3, of course NATO pilots has better training and equipment than soviet pilots in the last war.

    Finnish air force has always been able to compensate with training and tactics the lack of the most modern fighters. Motto is "Qualitas Potentia Nostra"
    Quality is our Strength. I read somewhere that the strategy at the wartime is to arm also our Hawk training planes and use them as fighter. You cant blame our guys lack of self confidence going against Migs and Suhois with old training planes. Also during the wartime air fields will be abandoned and F-18's will use common road air strips instead. There the strength of F-18 as a carrier fighter comes to play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hVwwF7u09A

    In this video they use wide road, but I have seen also photos of much, much smaller and narrower roads used. In the end of video you can see how stopping harnesses are used at nighttime on landings on public road

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  8. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    Pilotasso wrote:
    Danimal wrote:
    The F-16 does have lower wing loading, bleeding off less energy in high G turns, lower aspect ratio for quicker roll rates and a better thrust to weight ratio. The F/A-18 does have a slightly more capable radar package (until the APG-68 version 10) but despite all this they have nearly identical real world performance, especially if we're talking about super hornets and CJ's. However, speaking from experience, my unit's F-16CJ's consistently owned spanish F/A-18C's. Although I would most likely chalk that up for more experienced pilots plus we had JHMCS and they didn't. So realistically I'd say that the battle would go back and fourth with no clear cut winner.

    Several things I would like to point out here. First of all, the plane that has higher wing loading is the F-16 not the Hornet. The Hornet radar is not only slightly superior, it is considerably superior. If your talking about APG-65 VS APG-68V9 then the difference is not too much but if your going to include the APG-70 then I have to completely disagree that they are on par.

    Spanish F-18's are A MLU's not C's.

    My country also trains frequently with Spains F-18's, and among Pilots in my country, they too find that the F-18's fall somewhat behind but only due to worse piloting on the part of the spanish drivers. As far as perfomance goes I have never heard anything bad so far. Infact our pilots say that their kit is better than ours (F-16 MLU). The recent aquisition of helmet mouted sights and (yet unspecified) IR targeting pods has narrowed the gap, but it does give the edge in a knife fight. It will be interesting to see what will happen when they meet again.
    Good post. Frisian flag 2012 exercises in Holland Finnish airforces gets 100 kills and 6 loses against Eurofighter ( Germany, UK), Polish new F-16 and older F-16 planes ( Norway, Belgium) and Gripen ( Swedish) of course we dont know what were the rules in that exercises, but still its a amazing numbers...Finnish fighters probably could use their own data link?
     
  9. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Location:
    finland
    I find it interesting that F/A-18 Hornet is often said to have low thrust-to-weight ratio and slow acceleration. However with F404-GE-402 engines Swiss, Finnish and some later US C-D Hornets have, the power-to-weight ratio is very comparable to most F-15Cs, MiG-29 and F-16 Block 50/52 (with F100-PW-229 engines). Also acceleration is similarly very good, comparable to those mentioned aircraft. Of course with the earlier F404-GE-400 engine the power-to-weight ratio is not very high, but still quite comparable to Su-30MK and much better than JAS Gripen or Mirage 2000. It's also quite comparable to many F-16 versions with F100-PW-200/220 engines. Of course Hornet has higher drag than most of the mentioned aircraft, but that doesn't affect subsonic acceleration much.

    For example having witnessed Finnish Hornets taking off with similar external loads to F-16s, JAS Gripens and Mirage 2000s etc in exercises in Finland, the Hornets seemed to need much shorter takeoff distances and climb much steeper after takeoff. Of course being bigger and more powerful than those aircraft means that similar external load affects it less. Also Hornets seemed to usually operate with less external fuel as they have usually only one external centerline tank while F-16s, Mirage 2000s and Gripens usually used two or three tanks. I think Hornet has very respectable range and combat radius figures compared to F-16 or other similar aircraft.
     

Share This Page