Nirbhay Cruise Missile Development

[DingDong]

The way we are talking about problems at very basic organization level, when couple of years back it was only about software, it makes me more worried about the future of this platform.

Corruption Corruption Corruption nothing other than corruption I can see leading to this debacle.

Now government has given them time till June 2018, I wonder which new Juggaad they will come back with to stay relevant after under performing.

Please don't tell me that India is not capable to develop long range subsonic Cruise missile.

This fucking project need a detailed investigation before more money is allotted to the same team.

This project was underfunded.

Government babus and auditors allocate less budget for the whole project than it takes to buy few pieces of the same equipment from a foreign supplier.

ISRO has been lucky on this front because of the technology denial regime, no chance of procuring the critical components from foreign suppliers.

 

[hit&run]

This project was underfunded.

Government babus and auditors allocate less budget for the whole project than it takes to buy few pieces of the same equipment from a foreign supplier.

ISRO has been lucky on this front because of the technology denial regime, no chance of procuring the critical components from foreign suppliers.

Underfunded can be interpreted in many ways. Using this excuse makes it look more depressing.

Is there any information available if the cost of the whole program has increased or decreased from initial estimates ?

Is there any information that the team complained about lack of funds and resources ?

I bet the cost has increased and there was never a complaint for scarcity of funds.

1. Why would someone undertake underfunded project ? Leave it. When a project is drafted or a blue print is made there are several studies done including project cost and funding projections. If the project was conceived by the team it means they knew they can do it in that budget. I do not think this excuse is valid.

2. Underfunded means the Government never had the trust in the team or was benign about this program which we all know is most important program of all.

3. Underfunded means they wanted the program to fail and increase the cost thereafter with delays and conniving of the team managers/ babu nexus.

I have heard same excuse for ISRO, but for ISRO it is used with positivity and proud.

The teams take up the mission when they know its feasible given the amount of resources they have.
If it is normal practice to be that dysfunctional; be hanging on shoe strings; waiting for Government money after undertaking the project; boasting about the inception of the program before hand on Newspapers but performing like this then I see no other reason but systematic corruption that these public servants commits with Politicians in loop.

 

[Spectribution]

GOI expects miracles from peanuts. Go and take a look how many times Tomahawk failed during trials. Without technology partner, it is difficult to make a missile of this calibre.

Paki's much vaunted Babur is a copy of DH 10 or it's original version KH 55.

After MCTR we can make 700 km brahmos so original purpose of Nirbhay is moot.

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

Surely 2018 launch will be a success but after that we will get to hear about 70% of the components being imported.

Ones with brains are leaving the country and the rest left behind are good at just assembling stuff.

 

[DingDong]

Underfunded can be interpreted in many ways. Using this excuse makes it look more depressing.

Is there any information available if the cost of the whole program has increased or decreased from initial estimates ?

Is there any information that the team complained about lack of funds and resources ?

I bet the cost has increased and there was never a complaint for scarcity of funds.

1. Why would someone undertake underfunded project ? Leave it. When a project is drafted or a blue print is made there are several studies done including project cost and funding projections. If the project was conceived by the team it means they knew they can do it in that budget. I do not think this excuse is valid.

2. Underfunded means the Government never had the trust in the team or was benign about this program which we all know is most important program of all.

3. Underfunded means they wanted the program to fail and increase the cost thereafter with delays and conniving of the team managers/ babu nexus.

I have heard same excuse for ISRO, but for ISRO it is used with positivity and proud.

The teams take up the mission when they know its feasible given the amount of resources they have.
If it is normal practice to be that dysfunctional; be hanging on shoe strings; waiting for Government money after undertaking the project; boasting about the inception of the program before hand on Newspapers but performing like this then I see no other reason but systematic corruption that these public servants commits with Politicians in loop.

Bureaucrats and Accountants decide the money, these people simply don't care.

Off course there will be serious cost overruns because of the less than ideal working conditions, people are forced to cut corners.

Cannot compare ISRO with DRDO, missions and goals are different, and so are the operational and other issues.

Our research organizations are doing better than what is being reported in media.

Quoting @Spectribution do we know how many times did Tomahawk fail during the trials?

 

[Screambowl]

So pakis are ahead in cruise missile. Lauched from u der sea platform... we r still developing some ..

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

 

[charlie]

Surely 2018 launch will be a success but after that we will get to hear about 70% of the components being imported.

Ones with brains are leaving the country and the rest left behind are good at just assembling stuff.

No it's not like that, big companies never had the technology and are never know for their innovation.

Take a case study of europe and US and see where the tech is coming from ? its the MSME that brings the tech. Big companies just do integration and testing part and that's what DRDO is doing.

If you look at India then keep an eye on DATA patterns, I have really high hope for that MSME when compared to tonbo type of companies.

It's the financial system that is the biggest problem for our MSME, DPP 2016 has some goodies for Indian MSME but still a lot needs to be done.

Companies like tata and mahindra are using foreign MSME when they bring product to India, it's no different then what DRDO is doing.

Take a look at mahindra website realted to defence in communication and radar you will know what I am taking about

So till our MSME are not capable enough dont except any big private company like Tata or Mahindra will be different then DRDO apart from finishing project on time.

The guys who stay back are no less then guys who leave India. The only difference is work culture, better equipment and strong support.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Nirbhaya and Brahmos are different missiles with entirely different capabilities and one can't be substituted by other just on the pretext that both are cruise missiles. Nirbhaya has much longer range, ability to loiter and manoeuvre, and capability to deliver various types of war heads and sub munitions which is not possible to do with Brahmos. Moreover, Brahmos is evolved from anti-shipping role which relies on warhead+kinetic energy combine to destroy enemy ships so it's has its own limitations. Another distinguishing feature is, Nirbhaya can be configured for delivering nuclear warheads. So sabotage angle doesn't hold good as this development has to be done to equip our upcoming SSKs and Project 15B ships along with land based deployment against Pakistan and China for deep strike. Import options for acquiring such a long range missile is not feasible as it restricts our operational autonomy for delivering nuclear warheads.

The Difference between Bramhos and Nirbhay is that Bramhos is Russian Technology from the word go. India is just doing Screwdrivergiri that's all. And this is the Indian Contribution in the Bramhos.

And Nirbhay is fully Indian venture. Thought both are cruse missiles but the basic difference is that Nirbhay uses Turbofan tech for propulsion, while Brahmos uses ramjet Technology.

The Control Systems, Navigation Systems, Homing Systems for any cruse missile is very hard to master. Thats why despite having Brahmos India has no or very little knowledge of the systems, which could be applied to Nirbhay.

DRDO has to learn all the technologies, they just cannot bypass all the learning curve.

Important thing here to note that India don't have Turbofan or Turbojet technology yet for Cruse Missiles and are using Russian Turbofan.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

So pakis are ahead in cruise missile. Lauched from u der sea platform... we r still developing some ..

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

Pakis cruse missiles are of Chinese Origins. They are only doing Paint Jobs on them and claiming it to be pakistani cruse missiles.

They dont know anything about The Control Systems, Navigation Systems, Homing Systems.

 

[Screambowl]

Pakis cruse missiles are of Chinese Origins. They are only doing Paint Jobs on them and claiming it to be pakistani cruse missiles.

They dont know anything about The Control Systems, Navigation Systems, Homing Systems.

But they have it and they know how to use it on indian cities that solves the purpose of having a weapon.

 

[charlie]

The Difference between Bramhos and Nirbhay is that Bramhos is Russian Technology from the word go. India is just doing Screwdrivergiri that's all. And this is the Indian Contribution in the Bramhos.

And Nirbhay is fully Indian venture. Thought both are cruse missiles but the basic difference is that Nirbhay uses Turbofan tech for propulsion, while Brahmos uses ramjet Technology.

The Control Systems, Navigation Systems, Homing Systems for any cruse missile is very hard to master. Thats why despite having Brahmos India has no or very little knowledge of the systems, which could be applied to Nirbhay.

DRDO has to learn all the technologies, they just cannot bypass all the learning curve.

Important thing here to note that India don't have Turbofan or Turbojet technology yet for Cruse Missiles and are using Russian Turbofan.

Cost of nirbhay accoring to indian express is around 10 crore per missile

Cost of bhramos well 200 missle cost US 892 million or 60 billion rs
I dont know what other spares or equipment and launcher or support system were included in the deal but that what it is.

So per unit would be $4.46 million or something of brahmos

Lets increase the price of Nirbhay by 5 time or even 10 times still its much more feasible to produce Nirbhay in large numbers

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

But they have it and they know how to use it on indian cities that solves the purpose of having a weapon.

India have Bramhos which is far batter and deadly. Missiles like Babur cannot do much in heavily protected and Guarded territory.

Radars will eventually find it and it is just sitting duck for SAMS.

 

[charlie]

India have Bramhos which is far batter and deadly. Missiles like Babur cannot do much in heavily protected and Guarded territory.

Radars will eventually find it and it is just sitting duck for SAMS.

US fired around 274 tomhawk in Iraq, Iraq shotdown 2 of them, our staff is much better trained then Iraqi army and our surveillance and sensors are much better then what they had in 1991.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Cost of nirbhay accoring to indian express is around 10 crore per missile

Cost of bhramos well 200 missle cost US 892 million or 60 billion rs
I dont know what other spares or equipment and launcher or support system were included in the deal but that what it is.

So per unit would be $4.46 million or something of brahmos

Lets increase the price of Nirbhay by 5 time or even 10 times still its much more feasible to produce Nirbhay in large numbers

You seriously trust Indian Express???

But fact of the matter is Nirbhay is much much cheap then Then any Cruse Missile, and this is True.

Afterall we want every thing in Peanuts and blame every thing for failures on poor Developing Agencies.

We day and night bad mouth them despite them working in shoestring budgets. Be it Arjun, LAC, LUH, Akash, Artra, Kavari.

You name any item all are to be completed in shoestring budgets and must be world class and must not have any failures in developmental cycles.

And this is the irony. Like it or Hate it.

 

[Screambowl]

US fired around 274 tomhawk in Iraq, Iraq shotdown 2 of them, our staff is much better trained then Iraqi army and our surveillance and sensors are much better then what they had in 1991.

Speed of tomhawk is slower than brahmos. And brahmos is itself flies like bullet. The reaction time for any one would be just few seconds.

 

[Screambowl]

India have Bramhos which is far batter and deadly. Missiles like Babur cannot do much in heavily protected and Guarded territory.

Radars will eventually find it and it is just sitting duck for SAMS.

I was talking about under sea launch capability for a sub sonic cruise missile which India still needs to develop. To fill the gap. shourya is BM.

And brahmost will be ever launched from beneath the water, no idea.

 

[hit&run]

I was talking about under sea launch capability for a sub sonic cruise missile which India still needs to develop. To fill the gap. shourya is BM.

And brahmost will be ever launched from beneath the water, no idea.

90% of our submarines are capable of firing SLCM both in Land attack and anti Ship modes in single and salvo fire using either VLS or torpedo tubes. The missile name is Club-S. May be poster can add another SLCM name which I do not know that India operates.

Brahmos-III is SLCM under development. It won't go Nirbhya way; I can assure you.

 

[Bornubus]

So pakis are ahead in cruise missile. Lauched from u der sea platform... we r still developing some ..

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

Cruise Missiles, Artillery, small arms, personal equipment of troops and full access to Chinese Military satellite and Beidou etc etc

And possibly Air defense too (HQ 16 series SAM inducted last year)



All this with just $8 - 10 billion defense budget.

 

[Chinmoy]

I was talking about under sea launch capability for a sub sonic cruise missile which India still needs to develop. To fill the gap. shourya is BM.

And brahmost will be ever launched from beneath the water, no idea.

Read this....

On 20 March 2013, the submarine-launched version of BRAHMOS supersonic cruise missile was successfully test fired at 1410 hrs from a submerged platform in Bay of Bengal off the coast of Visakhapatnam.

http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=20

 

[Tarun Kumar]

To me QBM like pralay is more important as it cannot be intercepted and can be built by 100s to strike paki and chinese installations. DRDO must deploy Pralay by 2019.