Nikki's 'white' claim kicks up a row

[Singh]

You are right. This is the same mentality that believes 'everything foreign is better' only because it is foreign. Our media is controlled by people who feel inferior when they visit other countries and try to copy how foreigners behave.

I have been to many countries and have never felt 'inferiority complex' but rather know that Indian culture is countless times richer (not in monetary terms) than theirs. Lack of insight and knowledge about one's identity is the cause for it.

One thing that no one can deny is that only rich/upper middle/elite Indians speak in english among themselves while all other people from different countries speak in there native languages when they are amongst themselves. Arabs, chinese, french, german etc all speak in there own language when they are among themselves but Indians will speak english because that mentality of 'everything foreign is better' reigns supreme.

English is a much richer language than Hindi. Hindi has essentially stagnated since the last few decades whereas English has become richer, it is in fact the medium of knowledge and information for most of the brightest Indians.

 

[amitkriit]

English is a much richer language than Hindi. Hindi has essentially stagnated since the last few decades whereas English has become richer, it is in fact the medium of knowledge and information for most of the brightest Indians.

Those who have spent their entire life in cities have this misconception. My job takes me to villages, and Hindi has flourished in rural India. Go to any village in the Hindi heartland, and be ready for a pleasant surprise.

Hindi is a language of common people at least in North and East India, it simply cannot die. I have spent 4 years in IIT Kharagpur, where the official language of communication is English, but trust me you cannot survive there without a decent knowledge of Hindi. We had two foreign students in my department(In my batch), one from Singapore, the other one was from Germany. By the end of 3rd year both could speak in fluent Hindi, for a simple reason: If you wish to make friends, better learn Hindi. Even those who had come from non-Hindi states preferred to communicate in Hindi instead of English with fellow students. Only exception were a few guys from Tamilnadu who accepted solitary life to preserve their linguistic pride, not surprising at all.

 

[niharjhatn]

Those who have spent their entire life in cities have this misconception. My job takes me to villages, and Hindi has flourished in rural India. Go to any village in the Hindi heartland, and be ready for a pleasant surprise.

Hindi is a language of common people at least in North and East India, it simply cannot die. I have spent 4 years in IIT Kharagpur, where the official language of communication is English, but trust me you cannot survive there without a decent knowledge of Hindi. We had two foreign students in my department(In my batch), one from Singapore, the other one was from Germany. By the end of 3rd year both could speak in fluent Hindi, for a simple reason: If you wish to make friends, better learn Hindi. Even those who had come from non-Hindi states preferred to communicate in Hindi instead of English with fellow students. Only exception were a few guys from Tamilnadu who accepted solitary life to preserve their linguistic pride, not surprising at all.

Hehe - the worst are the stories I have heard about ragging:

Senior: "Eh freshie - Intro de!"
Freshie: "Yes sir, mera naam Alok hai, room 62"
Senior: "room nehi, Hindi mei, Hindi mei!"

Hehe, crazy stories

 

[sanjay]

It's a bit more complicated than that. People try to desperately to fit in... in whatever environment they are surrounded by. Migrant Indians do not tend to have a strong Indian support structure around them in most nations, partly from an urge to fit in and partly because Indians have not been migrating to other nations (relatively) as long as others e.g. the Chinese, who tend to establish very strong cultural support groups, and Middle Eastern groups.

Having been raised in RSA, I too play basketball, listen to rap, have African friends, but I never forgot my Indian heritage largely because of a large Indian populace, and relatively strong support group from family and friends.

For me, its easy to see if a migrant is brought up in a place without such support, how they can appear at times to be "desperately" trying to fit in.

Brown-like-James,
An' so do you be practicin' thuh ebonics and dumbin' down yo' english to fit in, playah?
Coz when ah see mah "homies" unconjugatin' dey tenses, callin' deyself "niggaz" - well, ah be rollin' mah eyes, y'know?

And as for calling oneself "Brown" - Brown is the colour of furniture. Brown is the colour of your parents' stationwagon. Brown doesn't really work well as a "faux black"

I'm very much in favor of assimilation and fitting in, but I've seen some people get too carried away with it.
Also, not trying to blindly imitate someone else is a sign of character.

 

[Yusuf]

I am a white Caucasian the sun burnt me brown.

 

[niharjhatn]

Brown-like-James,
An' so do you be practicin' thuh ebonics and dumbin' down yo' english to fit in, playah?
Coz when ah see mah "homies" unconjugatin' dey tenses, callin' deyself "niggaz" - well, ah be rollin' mah eyes, y'know?

And as for calling oneself "Brown" - Brown is the colour of furniture. Brown is the colour of your parents' stationwagon. Brown doesn't really work well as a "faux black"

I'm very much in favor of assimilation and fitting in, but I've seen some people get too carried away with it.
Also, not trying to blindly imitate someone else is a sign of character.

There is a difference between the gangsters and wiggas and what else you have and more normal black people. Sharing culture is hardly a bad thing - in fact, it is how we improve in the world, borrowing the best from the people we see and meet, and adding it to our own personality, leaving out the bad bits.

I fail to see how speaking like an uneducated nincompoop gets you to fit in any group. If Indians you've seen associate themselves with the more... uneducated members of black society... well, it ain't a smart play on their part is it?

My dad would slap me into next week if I talked like that - and that's really the point. If parents, friends and family renege on their role to their kids, whose fault does it ultimately lie with, that the kid has no appreciation of their culture, history, richness?

Heh - my black friends would be more pissed off at me for using words like "******" and talking like that then my father.

 

[sandeepdg]

^^ I agree with your views, mate ! Just because you hang around with black people, doesn't mean you will that sort of language. By the way, that kind of language is only spoken by Americans blacks, and that too a small percentage of those junkies high on dope and crimes, gangsters and "wiggas". I have personally communicated with many Africans, and I have never heard that kind of hip-hop accent from anyone.

 

[sandeepdg]

English is a much richer language than Hindi. Hindi has essentially stagnated since the last few decades whereas English has become richer, it is in fact the medium of knowledge and information for most of the brightest Indians.

That's because we city folks only speak and hear a inferior version of Hindi in our daily lives, its not pure Hindi. Travel into the North Indian hinterland, and you will get a good dosage of pure Hindi.

it is in fact the medium of knowledge and information for most of the brightest Indians.

That is an utterly stupid thing to say ! My mother tongue is Bengali, but I speak fluent Hindi. Are you saying that all Indians who don't communicate in English are all stupid and dumb and don't exchange any knowledge and intelligent information ?

Come on, man, where the hell did you come up with such a warped logic ?

 

[The Messiah]

^ This logic is common place in cities around India.

If you can't speak fluent english your illiterate...its as simple as that.

 

[Tshering22]

^ This logic is common place in cities around India.

If you can't speak fluent english your illiterate...its as simple as that.

That is because of the slave mentality that has been created in India whereby people are ready to learn a foreign language so keenly and yet consider it a personal insult to use a common Sanskrit-origin language for pan-India communication. In fact, southern and eastern Indians would find it the easiest to learn Hindi (north Indians don't care much about state accents, unlike English where their incomplete words are to be pronounced in the correct manner).

The slave mentality stems not from common people but from the ruling Indian National Congress that made English like a livelihood of India. Knowing the international language is good, but here in India, people are obsessed with it. Obsession is wrong and ruins personal respect.

There are Japanese, Thai, Russians, French, German, Hong Kong-ers, Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Koreans etc who are far far well-off and richer compared to India. They don't use a single word of English and still have managed to have some of the most prosperous economies on the planet.

If these countries are homogenous, that is not an excuse. In India, all governments give 100% freedom and encouragement to state and regional languages. All media channels have big businesses in regional languages such as serials and movies. All the state governments are welcome to retain their languages. Hence those who say that Hindi is being imposed on them are bullcrap liars. They simply want to gain cheap political mileage out of maligning an easy-to-learn pan-Indian language of Indian origin.

My language is Dnzongkha but still I speak and write fluent Hindi. Majority Sikkimese, Arunachalis, Ladakhis and I'd say even to a warm extent Manipuris are very open to the language and know to speak Hindi very well. It helps us connect to a Marathi or a Punjabi or a Gujarati. That's the main advantage. Feeling a sense of connectivity without having to use a foreign-colonial language.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I have a cock(chicken) and i am an Asian, does this make me a Caucasian?

Why do you Indians want to be Aryans? There is proof of Greeks invading and proof of every other tribe invading but where is your proof that some people called Aryans invaded, where is it written like Alexanders invasion?

 

[Yusuf]

I have a cock(chicken) and i am an Asian, does this make me a Caucasian?

No if you have a cock ($&@$&) and Asian you would lol!!

 

[The Messiah]

That is because of the slave mentality that has been created in India whereby people are ready to learn a foreign language so keenly and yet consider it a personal insult to use a common Sanskrit-origin language for pan-India communication. In fact, southern and eastern Indians would find it the easiest to learn Hindi (north Indians don't care much about state accents, unlike English where their incomplete words are to be pronounced in the correct manner).

The slave mentality stems not from common people but from the ruling Indian National Congress that made English like a livelihood of India. Knowing the international language is good, but here in India, people are obsessed with it. Obsession is wrong and ruins personal respect.

There are Japanese, Thai, Russians, French, German, Hong Kong-ers, Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, Koreans etc who are far far well-off and richer compared to India. They don't use a single word of English and still have managed to have some of the most prosperous economies on the planet.

If these countries are homogenous, that is not an excuse. In India, all governments give 100% freedom and encouragement to state and regional languages. All media channels have big businesses in regional languages such as serials and movies. All the state governments are welcome to retain their languages. Hence those who say that Hindi is being imposed on them are bullcrap liars. They simply want to gain cheap political mileage out of maligning an easy-to-learn pan-Indian language of Indian origin.

My language is Dnzongkha but still I speak and write fluent Hindi. Majority Sikkimese, Arunachalis, Ladakhis and I'd say even to a warm extent Manipuris are very open to the language and know to speak Hindi very well. It helps us connect to a Marathi or a Punjabi or a Gujarati. That's the main advantage. Feeling a sense of connectivity without having to use a foreign-colonial language.

I agree with you but blaming congress is shallow argument since this problem goes deep into the psyche of the society. I was searching about indo-iranian languages and i landed upon a pakii forum where they were harping the same thing we are doing here. Just replace hindi with urdu and they were saying the same thing about how english is considered all mighty superior language. Since they haven't had any govt like congress and yet have the same social psyche about english i conclude that the cause is something else.

Media is a major tool for information and when youngsters see everything western all day then they naturally believe it to be superior. Goto any 'elite' party and you'll see youngsters all speaking in english to each other while the elderly still speak in Indian language from time to time.

In our studies also not much importance is given to our culture and traditions so as a result youngsters remain ignorant of them and catch onto western things like 'slut walk' just to feel attached with something. They think loony vhp beating couples in park is Indian culture when actually sexuality wasn't so taboo in ancient India but they dont have a clue about it.

My maths teacher made his daughter join a french class and i asked him why ? He just replied that it is better rather than something specific. Go to any shop and observe how customers would gladly pay more for 'imported' product rather than similar or in most cases a better and cheaper Indian product. I think the media should slowly bring awareness about this is subtle ways.

 

[civfanatic]

My maths teacher made his daughter join a french class and i asked him why ? He just replied that it is better rather than something specific. Go to any shop and observe how customers would gladly pay more for 'imported' product rather than similar or in most cases a better and cheaper Indian product. I think the media should slowly bring awareness about this is subtle ways.

Who would want to learn French? It's a pointless language to learn. Better to learn something useful like Spanish, since an entire hemisphere speaks it.

 

[sandeepdg]

^ This logic is common place in cities around India.

If you can't speak fluent english your illiterate...its as simple as that.

Yeah, I know that very well, mate. I have stayed in many places in North and Central India, but the most people with that mentality can be found in Delhi-NCR areas, from my experience, among other cities. Cheap mentality ! I really hate it, especially since these so-called self proclaimed elite English speakers don't know a paisa's worth of knowledge on our great and rich cultures. And neither do they a dime worth's of the greater world and global geopolitical issues and current affairs. Just speak English, and consider yourself to be an American, that's their mentality. Bunch of narrow minded dumb asses !!

 

[thakur_ritesh]

just wondering, what is "Indian-American", arent they all americans after all? what is so indian about them now that they want to get termed or are termed as "Indian-American". the first generation moving out and settling in the US could still be termed "Indian-American", but certainly not the following generations born there. is this term used by only the indian media, or does the american media also use the term?

 

[civfanatic]

just wondering, what is "Indian-American", arent they all americans after all? what is so indian about them now that they want to get termed or are termed as "Indian-American". the first generation moving out and settling in the US could still be termed "Indian-American", but certainly not the following generations born there. is this term used by only the indian media, or does the american media also use the term?

Blacks living in America are still called "African Americans" even though they have been separated from Africa for several centuries.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Blacks living in America are still called "African Americans" even though they have been separated from Africa for several centuries.

but then arent the americans themselves creating the divisions? why should that be done any more? i can understand if these people migrating and using a term because then they will act as a vote bank and then look for concessions, but americans shouldnt allow such distinctions.

they are americans and thats it, if people migrating still feel they are indians after so many years/decades then there is no point staying there, but to move back to their roots, which is india, and this is the precise reason why pakistanis moving out never integrate in a society they move out to in the west, or down under in the oz land.

 

[Yusuf]

Ok, lets not get into this English vs Desi language thing. It would be pretty hypocritical. We learn and use the english language because it is widely used, spoken and understood by all, at least in the urban areas and esp the business sector. Now we guys would not be on an English forum if we didnt know English. Why did all of us go to English school in the first place. Some of the above posts are quite rhetorical.

As far as i know, most people speak their mother tongues when with similar company. When not, they use English. Someone mentioned Delhi, for the little that i have traveled there, i hear young and old speak Hindi with each other than English, the Haanji types.

Down south, esp in Bangalore where you have a cosmopolitan crowd, if you are from north and your friend is from south, then the only medium of communication is English. Now dont get started with why not Hindi and stuff. People down south barely know or learn Hindi. Most take Kannada or Tamil as second language if they are in English Medium school and if not, they are taught in the local language only.

 

[S.A.T.A]

but then arent the americans themselves creating the divisions? why should that be done any more? i can understand if these people migrating and using a term because then they will act as a vote bank and then look for concessions, but americans shouldnt allow such distinctions.

they are americans and thats it, if people migrating still feel they are indians after so many years/decades then there is no point staying there, but to move back to their roots, which is india, and this is the precise reason why pakistanis moving out never integrate in a society they move out to in the west, or down under in the oz land.

This division provides a sharp contrast to the idea of American multiculturalism.Although America still pays lip service to the vision of America being a melting pot of global cultures,but the terms like Indian-America,Mexican-American,African-American.. etc,clearly presupposes a hyphenated relationship between these global cultures with that of 'America'.Here America refers to the host society which is absorbing new immigrating cultural constituents,probably stopping short of full assimilation.

Even though it is rarely expressed with any vehemence,but it is a notion firmly ingrained in American national consciousness that the Anglo-protestant society forms the core of America's national cultural identity,they constitute the original idea of an American nation,the host society,everybody else is assimilated,with varying degree of assimilation,by and into this host society.

By Hyphenating new cultural groups with what constitutes the national core,the Anglo-protestant society on one hand assures the new groups that assimilation will not be done in haste or in a manner that requires them to compromise their cultural identity,on other hand it reminds these groups that they,the Anglo-protestant,constitute the American national core.