New Indian stealth warship halted by US bar on GE

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by LETHALFORCE, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/new-indian-stealth-warship-halted-by-us-barge/351062/

    New Indian stealth warship halted by US bar on GE
    Ajai Shukla / On Board The Ins Shivalik, Mumbai March 06, 2009, 0:08 IST

    If the United States ranks near the bottom amongst India’s defence suppliers, Washington’s penchant for imposing sanctions and restrictions has much to do with it. Now, the US appears to have shot itself in the foot again. The Indian Navy chose to power its indigenously designed, cutting-edge stealth warship, the INS Shivalik, with gas turbines from American company General Electric (GE). But even as the Shivalik readies for sea trials, the US State Department has ordered GE to stop all work on the turbines it has supplied.

    Vice Admiral HS Malhi (Retired), chairman and managing director of Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), which built the Shivalik, has confirmed to Business Standard that GE has received instructions to stop operationalising (making ready for operations) the two new LM 2500 gas turbines that it supplied for the Shivalik. GE has told MDL that there could be up to three months delay, while the new US administration reviews its military relations with several countries. India is not alone in facing this ban; GE has been told to stop work even with close US allies like the UK and Australia.

    MDL has clearly been taken by surprise. Says Admiral Malhi, “It is quite surprising that such a letter has been received from GE. They said the (US) State Department could take up to 3-4 months to re-look at relations with these countries. We don’t have that kind of time; we have to deliver the ship to the navy.”

    The Shivalik stealth frigate is powered by four engines, in what is termed a CODOG (COmbined Diesel Or Gas) arrangement. Normal operations are powered by two Pielstick diesel engines, supplied by France. The gas turbines kick in for short bursts during combat, when extra power is needed. They are less fuel-efficient than diesel engines, but provide high performance. This is the first time that US turbines have been installed in an Indian-built frigate.

    MDL is now exploring whether it can use another GE subsidiary to operationalise the Shivalik’s turbines, without invalidating GE’s warranty. According to Admiral Malhi, “If GE allows us to use one of its licensees, the delay can be cut down to a month. GE is not averse to that, as long as no American person is involved in the work.”

    GE has not responded to an email, asking for details of this delay. The US State Department has also ignored a request for information. A spokesperson of the US Embassy in New Delhi has sidestepped the question, replying by email that, “The State Department has not instructed GE in the conduct of this direct commercial sale. Aspects of this sale were subject to export licensing, which is conducted through the State Department.”

    When asked to comment specifically on blanket orders from the State Department to GE regarding commercial defence dealings with India, the US Embassy did not respond.

    Recent Indian frigates were powered by Russian turbines. But GE’s LM 2500 gas turbines were chosen for three Project 17 frigates (of which INS Shivalik is the first) because of their better reliability. More than one thousand LM 2500 turbines power more than 400 warships in 30 navies across the world. In addition, the LM 2500 is used for power generation in luxury cruise liners like the QE II.

    US defence industry sources indicate that GE is upset by the State Department’s directives, which clearly damage GE’s commercial interests. The ban, suggest sources, was imposed by an “over-enthusiastic State Department bureaucrat”, keen to display that the Obama administration was on the ball from the beginning. But in India, the ban is already generating talk of an unwise choice in going for a US engine.(same thing happened with LCA)


    *******CHOOSE OUR MRCA VERY CAREFULLLY*******
     
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  3. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

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    Ban

    See these other countries named makes me feel the situation will clear up soon.
    These are two of our best allies fighting hand and hand with us, I can't see going on long.
     
  4. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Hope what you say happens rock because India any way is not equipped and these sort of ban will not be good for other deals.
     
  5. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    I thought the US changed it ways, But sadly I am proved wrong yet again! If this is the way thing would move in the future, I say kick the Shornet and F16 out of the MRCA and go for the Rafale!
     
  6. Triton

    Triton Founding Member

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    May be this is for good; if not GE we can always go for Russian turbines on rest of the Project 17 frigates; These sort of bans and strings from the US govt will open the eyes of our elites who make decision on future purchases for Indian armed forces. Hope the new govt in US will not take much time to resolve this issue.
     
  7. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Let this be an Eye opener.. US is always being an unreliable partner to deal with...
     
  8. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think the USA doesn't mean to be unreliable but their decision making process is too unwieldy.

    India should enter into any contract with them with ironclad guarantees. They may not mean bad but are just plain pain in the *** with this kind of decisions.
     
  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This lesson was also taught with LCA and cryogenic engine, how many times will we repeat the same mistake? much of the delay in LCA 10+ years was because of GE not giving the engine. Obama is not going to do what Bush did or honor the same things.
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    New Indian stealth warship halted by US ban

    http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-indian-stealth-warship-halted-by-us.html

    New Indian stealth warship halted by US ban

    by Ajai Shukla
    On Board the INS Shivalik, Mumbai


    If the United States ranks near the bottom amongst India’s defence suppliers, Washington’s penchant for imposing sanctions and restrictions has much to do with it. Now, the US appears to have shot itself in the foot again. The Indian Navy chose to power its indigenously designed, cutting-edge stealth warship, the INS Shivalik, with gas turbines from American company General Electric (GE). But even as the Shivalik readies for sea trials, the US State Department has ordered GE to stop all work on the turbines it has supplied.


    Vice Admiral HS Malhi (Retired), Chairman and Managing Director of Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL), which built the Shivalik, has confirmed to Business Standard that GE has received instructions to stop operationalising (making ready for operations) the two new LM 2500 gas turbines that it supplied for the Shivalik. GE has told MDL that there could be up to three months delay, while the new US administration reviews its military relations with several countries. India is not alone in facing this ban; GE has been told to stop work even with close US allies like the UK and Australia.


    MDL has clearly been taken by surprise. Says Admiral Malhi, “It is quite surprising that such a letter has been received from GE. They said the (US) State Department could take up to 3-4 months to re-look at relations with these countries. We don’t have that kind of time; we have to deliver the ship to the navy.”


    The Shivalik stealth frigate is powered by four engines, in what is termed a CODOG (COmbined Diesel Or Gas) arrangement. Normal operations are powered by two Pielstick diesel engines, supplied by France. The gas turbines kick in for short bursts during combat, when extra power is needed. They are less fuel-efficient than diesel engines, but provide high performance. This is the first time that US turbines have been installed in an Indian-built frigate.


    MDL is now exploring whether it can use another GE subsidiary to operationalise the Shivalik’s turbines, without invalidating GE’s warranty. According to Admiral Malhi, “If GE allows us to use one of its licensees, the delay can be cut down to a month. GE is not averse to that, as long as no American person is involved in the work.”


    GE has not responded to an email, asking for details of this delay. The US State Department has also ignored a request for information. A spokesperson of the US Embassy in New Delhi has sidestepped the question, replying by email that, “The State Department has not instructed GE in the conduct of this direct commercial sale. Aspects of this sale were subject to export licensing, which is conducted through the State Department.”


    When asked to comment specifically on blanket orders from the State Department to GE regarding commercial defence dealings with India, the US Embassy did not respond.


    Recent Indian frigates were powered by Russian turbines. But GE’s LM 2500 gas turbines were chosen for three Project 17 frigates (of which INS Shivalik is the first) because of their better reliability. More than one thousand LM 2500 turbines power more than 400 warships in 30 navies across the world. In addition, the LM 2500 is used for power generation in luxury cruise liners like the QE II.


    US defence industry sources indicate that GE is upset by the State Department’s directives, which clearly damage GE’s commercial interests. The ban, suggest sources, was imposed by an “over-enthusiastic State Department bureaucrat”, keen to display that the Obama administration was on the ball from the beginning. But in India, the ban is already generating talk of an unwise choice in going for a US engine.
     
  11. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    When will these Babus learn?? Its high time we get tough otherwise our P8s and others gonna face the same heat!
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I am really scaird for India they are making too many acquistions from USA which may not be the best move for me Israel and French are good suppliers and Russia at times.
     
  13. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Israel is the way to Go. I think they are 100% reliable, then comes the French. No one can give us the super tech these countries are willing to give us.
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    I agree but I always feel that much more items can be made indigenously but over government dosen't put emphasis on it.
     
  15. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Indigenously... Yes we can do it, But our whole approach in the Past was wrong. We tried to re invent the Wheel, But I see that we are going in the right direction, I just hope we reach that stage soon.

    The Indian Navy is the one arm while should be applauded for its efforts to procure Indigenous stuff. I hope to see these Shivalik class frigates sailing soon, and they would be pretty capable. I say we go for the Russian turbines if the yanks are acting all high. Better to run on a bad turbine than to run on no turbine at all! Maybe in the future we can work on our own tech.
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    but the turbine is important to making it stealthy?
     
  17. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    I dont think there will be any problem with the supply of engines. C'mon the US cannot afford to lose any contract in a time like this. This is just the new office showing off.
     
  18. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    An overenthusiastic Government Official, I must add...

    But, the US must be told in no unclear terms that such wavering and dilly-dallying will hurt their strategic interests in the long run...
     
  19. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Well the European Countries would be more then happy to supply INDIA an turbine, As many european Countries have got their own Stealth Vessels to name a few :

    # The Swedish Visby class corvette,
    # The Dutch Zeven Provinciën class frigate,
    # The Norwegian Skjold class patrol boat,
    # The French La Fayette class frigate,
    # The German MEKO ships Braunschweig class corvettes and Sachsen class frigates,
    # The British Type 45 destroyer,
    and
    # The Finnish Hamina class missile boats.

    :vehicle_plane::vehicle_plane:
     
  20. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the information about the European seafarers Atul. I'm sure we can get the engines if we want from them as well...

    But, the real problem is that the Sivalik project would be set back now. If I order new engines from the Europeans or the Russians, they'd possibly take an year or two to deliver, and that won't be good for the project...
     
  21. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    Dear Gokul,

    yes this might offset the Project, but will also give a strong single to the US, "they can delay our projects but cannot stop us from procuring what we want". & anyways they will lost the money along with the already lost credibility of being a reliable supplier.:vehicle_plane:
     

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