New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Flame Thrower]

Army already has enough guns. It is just media hype that is creating unnecessary sense of urgency.

A 7.62x51 calibre gun is not supposed to be standard assault rifles. Infantry will lose the aim due to high recoil. There is a reason why Nato uses 5.56. It is better to make a 7.62x39 with aluminium bullet to reduce weight while at the same time increase penetration.

A layman's question.

To my knowledge, we use lead core with copper cover as full metal jacket rounds or steel core and tip with copper cover for armor piercing rounds.

Al is neither strong as steel in AP rounds nor as cheap to be used in FMJ rounds...

Does the costly and softer Al is suitable to be used as core!?

Not to mention the lower mass which directly affects momentum and kinetic energy(though initial velocity might remain high, will reduce to normal round due to higher friction at high velocity). How does Al core fare wrt to FMJ and AP rounds.

Any stats to backup info would be great.

Thanks.

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

@Kunal Biswas bhai any update on .303 sniper rifle?
and secondly are we undertaking some project to come up with special rounds for marksman rifles?

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Actually Galil 7.62x51 is a forty year old design.

 

[Hari Sud]

Actually Galil 7.62x51 is a forty year old design.

If it is old design then why is Indian Army is impressed by that?

If it is an evolution of Ak -47 type then when why is it so pricey.

 

[Kchontha]

If it is old design then why is Indian Army is impressed by that?

How dare you say that Indian army is impressed by Galil Ace 7.62 Nato battle rifle? Have you heard it from the horse mouth? If so give the source.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The 7.62x51mm Sniper Rifle has still a long way to go, The prototype`s photo i took was just few of the first ..

It will offered to Paramilitary and Police forces, As Army is looking at very different caliber ..

@Kunal Biswas bhai any update on .303 sniper rifle?
and secondly are we undertaking some project to come up with special rounds for marksman rifles?

 

[devhensh]

I hope/dream, that OFB/ARDE/DRDO can come up with a single Modular rifle, similar to the one below, which can satisfy all the requirements of our armed forces.

This is the "Desert Tech MDR", the most eagerly awaited rifle in USA and it's first batch was delivered to customers only on 1st Aug 2017, after many delays.

This rifle is the most Modular(both Caliber & Length) rifle yet. Uses single chasis, single magwel (with Adaptors) and can be converted to any caliber between 7.62x51mm, to 5.56x45. Thus intermediate calibers like 6.8SPCII, 6.5 creedmore, 6.5 Grendale, .260 Remington, .300 blackout all are possible; with single chasis and change of magzine, barrel and bolt group.

Has a superb adjustable trigger, forward ejection, user changeable barrel and action. I can't call this revolutionary, but evolutioanry in the sense that it has incorportated all the good design elements in firearm design till now.

Imagine the armed forces of a big and mighty country like India, equipped with a single modular rifle, which suffices for all their needs. It can be a standard issue in 5.56x45, a DMR in 7.62x51 and any other caliber in between to make it future proof........

https://deserttech.com/product_overview.php?product_id=4&load=product_overview

 

[devhensh]

This was the same company which refused a 15 million $ deal with Pakistan on ethical grounds....They are known to produce one of the most accurate sniper rifle platforms called Desert Tech SRS....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/0...turns-down-15-million-deal-with-pakistan.html

 

[Vijyes]

This was the same company which refused a 15 million $ deal with Pakistan on ethical grounds....They are known to produce one of the most accurate sniper rifle platforms called Desert Tech SRS....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/01/0...turns-down-15-million-deal-with-pakistan.html

Reverse engineering a rifle is never hard. There is 0 needs for buying imports every time. Once import, then just reverse engineer. The guns like carbine are weak and get broken on physical impact. So, such "fibre" or "ceramic" guns are not worth it. The metal guns are the preferred ones. They definitely can be reverse engineered.

Coming back to the point, if we can make 7.62x51 mm Assault rifle, I don't think we will need another sniper rifle at all. The 7.62x51 itself is sniper rifle calibre and is actually used as sniper rifles. One just needs to have better barrel for handling higher pressure. Sniper rifles, specially designed for bolt action can also be made for specialised roles from he same design and experience obtained.

 

[devhensh]

I posted the article to share a modern design idea, and never pointed or suggested just blind reverse engineering(which one of our neighbouring country is famous for). This can be a Platform / Architecture our future rifles platforms can be based on... This design idea is a departure from most new designs, as it brings in the best of both Bullpup + Modularity .....We will offcourse, need to adapt the rifle as per our needs..

Also Carbine (mentioned by you) is nothing but a rifle with short barrel ....and where does it say that this platform uses "fibre" or "ceramic"?? Use of High Strength Plastics for handguards and other areas are standard in all modern rifles such as FN SCAR etc..do you think the Tavor(a big success in India) is made up of all metal ....

Lastly, saying that we don't need anything other 7.62x51mm, is pure dreaming ....All modern armies use a mix of 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm... Overpenetartion of
7.62x51mm is a big issue in densely populated urban areas, where other calibers are required....

Also all 7.62x51mm ammunitions is not sniper grade... a Sniper rifle, a DMR Rifle and a Battle Rifle are diffrent tools which serve diffrent purposes......

 

[devhensh]

Actually Galil 7.62x51 is a forty year old design.

That's true ...But firearms developments have hit a plateau, it seems...The three new designs, i mention below are more evolutionary than revolutionary, which our designers/armed forces, may like to keep in mind for future (i can only dream /hope):

1. Textron Systems : LSAT

2. Desert Tech MDR :
Ultimate evolution of Bulpup design + Modularity(both Caliber & Length)

3. Ruger SR 556 Takedown :
Interestingly, this rifle already seems to have all the main fetures of rifle HK433(under development) and which is supposed to replace HK G36 for the German forces. Mainly the Quick change barrel system of Styer AUG

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/sr556TD/models.html

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/03/news-heckler-koch-hk433/

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

Stoner 63 is a modular platform, so why didn't it get popular outside the Special Operations circle ?

 

[tharun]

As Army is looking at very different caliber ..

Different caliber? Which one?
By the way which gun in the below list is good
Bushmaster ACR
Scar-16s
Tavor

 

[devhensh]

Stoner 63 is a modular platform, so why didn't it get popular outside the Special Operations circle ?

Good point...Although, it was extensively used by Navy Seals during Vietnam era, it was a very complex weapon and needed lot of maintenance(listen for the experts comments at 1.36 in clip below). So it was never accepted for general issue...

But assault rifle design and development has progressed a lot since then...and reliability is a top criterion now...and the ones i mentioned are the best of best(as per my limited knowledge)

 

[devhensh]

Another one ...last one for the day
This one is from Jim Sullivan(one of the designers of AR15) and perhaps the most knowledgeable persons about assault rifle design alive !!!

The point here is to share about the advancements and latest design trends and not to say that the OFB rifles aren't good ....But we should always keep an eye open for the latest....For future..perhaps, what we have now is good enough...

 

[Vorschlaghammer]

The 7.62x51mm Sniper Rifle has still a long way to go, The prototype`s photo i took was just few of the first ..

It will offered to Paramilitary and Police forces, As Army is looking at very different caliber ..

Different caliber? Which one?
By the way which gun in the below list is good
Bushmaster ACR
Scar-16s
Tavor

.338 Lapua seems like the best choice for extended range shooting. Combine that with a quality bolt gun like the AWP or atleast the SV-98, train dedicated Shooter/Spotter teams in sniper schools, and not just DMR operator in squad, and that is a winning combination.

 

[sthf]

Look at the photo there is another rifle in the background.
If you know how to use Google,then you will get all the details.

For the life of me I cannot understand that why are you insisting that it is a battle rifle, SCAR equivalent in particular despite evidence to the contrary. Everything on that rifle screams semi automatic precision rifle, from long barrel to the large sight to the placement of P-rails.

As for the "how to use Google", maybe you should try it before making utterly stupid claims.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...duces-new-7-62x51-nato-sk-16-precision-rifle/

 

[devhensh]

The US Army, which was a big advocate of 5.56x45mm caliber and M4 rifle, has issued a new RFI for new rifle in 7.62x51mm......Thus a similar move by Indian army to adopt the 7.62x51mm caliber makes sense to a layman like me..

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-rfi-new-7-62mm-interim-combat-service-rifle/

A new completely modular design like the one below maybe the front runner for the US contract(this platform is so new, that this is the first Production model review).....

Again, this is just to share the latest developments and not to suggest that this is best for our needs....Regarding the OFB design...I will leave it to the Indian Defence establishment to decide the best for our forces...

 

[Trololo]

I hope/dream, that OFB/ARDE/DRDO can come up with a single Modular rifle, similar to the one below, which can satisfy all the requirements of our armed forces.

This is the "Desert Tech MDR", the most eagerly awaited rifle in USA and it's first batch was delivered to customers only on 1st Aug 2017, after many delays.

This rifle is the most Modular(both Caliber & Length) rifle yet. Uses single chasis, single magwel (with Adaptors) and can be converted to any caliber between 7.62x51mm, to 5.56x45. Thus intermediate calibers like 6.8SPCII, 6.5 creedmore, 6.5 Grendale, .260 Remington, .300 blackout all are possible; with single chasis and change of magzine, barrel and bolt group.

Has a superb adjustable trigger, forward ejection, user changeable barrel and action. I can't call this revolutionary, but evolutioanry in the sense that it has incorportated all the good design elements in firearm design till now.

Imagine the armed forces of a big and mighty country like India, equipped with a single modular rifle, which suffices for all their needs. It can be a standard issue in 5.56x45, a DMR in 7.62x51 and any other caliber in between to make it future proof........

https://deserttech.com/product_overview.php?product_id=4&load=product_overview

Isn't the DRDO MCIWS supposed to be something similar? Btw, can anyone tell me what happened to that project?

 

[sthf]

Now that US Army is looking for COTS 7.62×51 rifles, companies will divert their attention towards US and not India. Despite the interim order is only for 10,000 pieces, huge market exists for civilian ownership.

Also, USMC has ordered 50,000 units of M27 IAR making it it's standard rifle by default. This esstentially rules out H&K in terms of negotiation regardless of the roumors of HK not selling to Non NATO countries.