New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Johny_Baba]

Why need to replace browning pistols ?, They are doing fine ..

Induction of a new design put strain on logistics so does training, Unless the requirement is absolute.

I'm not denying the fact this Browning HI Power is very reliable and powerful pistol but it is high time for our troops to opt for double action pistol. Our troops must opt for double action pistol rather than sticking with 1920s designed single action pistol. I don't remember where I read but is it true that army is particular looking for a pistol with rail? If yes, then why on earth would anyone want to put rail on the pistol which is used to engage enemies at 25 mtres?

Dada,in that case,We can adopt this weapon.

This is Browning Hi-Power Double Action Pistol.

Very much similar to Older Hi-Power and Reliable too.

It is currently in service with Finnish Defense Forces as their Service Pistol.

 

[sthf]

Hi power had its day and had served well for decades. It needs to replaced.

Sig P320 has been recently adopted by US Army and USAF. Also Glock 17 and 19 is in service with umpteen no. of militaries.

There are better options available and pistols don't even remotely make it to list of things which needs replacement.

 

[Rchauhan]

Hey Guys , do You know the status of the LMG mentioned in this document .

http://ofbindia.gov.in/download/make_in_india/Make_in_India_Weapon.pdf

 

[aditya g]

Didnt know where to post this.

AP Greyhounds:

........................................

 

[WolfPack86]

The INSAS, the standard assault rifle of the Indian armed forces, will be retired very soon. They will be replaced by a deadlier imported assault rifle which will be manufactured in India.
The reason behind going for a better assault rifle is the fact that the INSAS cannot basically ‘kill’ the enemy but maim him.INSAS was inducted in the army in 1988. They are used extensively in counter terror operations as well as conventional war, including Kargil.
Compared to an AK-47, the preferred weapon of the terrorists, an INSAS can do little damage. An INSAS is not effective at long range, which makes it difficult for a soldier to shoot down an enemy from a safer distance.
Why the Army needs a better assault rifle is clear, but what kind of assault rifle do the forces need?
The Army wants to have a rifle that uses cartridges of size 7.62x51mm.

The INSAS uses a 5.56x45 mm cartridge. By comparison the AK-47 uses a 7.62x.39 mm cartridge. It is the difference in the cartridge size that defines how lethal the weapon is.

In fact, the standard assault rifle of the Pakistani Army is Heckler & Koch G3, which uses 7.62x51 mm cartridges. Other rifles that use a similar cartridge are Belgium’s FN SCAR L and Israel’s Galil.

The FN SCAR is one of the few assault rifles that comes in different barrel lengths, overall lengths and weight.
Besides 20 countries, it is used by all units of US Special Operations Command including the Navy SEALs.

Israel’s Galil is considered one of the deadliest assault rifles ever produced.In extensive use by Israeli armed forces and many countries, the Galil, like the FN SCAR, comes in different lengths and weight. One of its latest variants is the Galil ACE, which is the main assault rifle of the Colombian Army and police who need the weapon to tackle the FARC.
There are others, too. India might also go for American Colt CM901, which is currently used outside the US by Malaysia.

India will go for any of the finest assault rifles available in the world provided other requirements, such as transfer of technology, are met.
PTI reports that first priority will be on arming the Special Forces who conduct operations in the Northeast. It will be only after arming the Special Forces that attention will be placed on INSAS. It should also be noted that the forces such as CRPF, which fight Naxals, are in need of better assault rifles, too.
A foreign manufacturer is being sought because the Indian armed forces were not satisfied with the indigenously made assault rifle Excalibur, which is an improved version of INSAS but uses a cartridge similar in size.
The Indian Army needs around two lakh assault rifles that would replace the INSAS.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/03/which-assault-rifle-will-indian-army-go.html

 

[rishivashista13]

Silly mistake spotted !!!!


This article is saying that SCAR L uses 7.62 nato .

Really !!!! Who has written this ??

Instead SCAR H is 7.62 nato .
But SCAR L is 5.56 nato .

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[pringles]

@Kunal Biswas has already created a thread about this topic. I think the consensus is that India will go for the Excalibur/Kalantak gun for the army, and SF will use imported guns.

 

[ghost]

@Kunal Biswas has already created a thread about this topic. I think the consensus is that India will go for the Excalibur/Kalantak gun for the army, and SF will use imported guns.

Let me clear your doubts (informed guess)

Indian army is looking for 7.62x51mm rifle.

0% chance for Excalibur (which is a 5.56x45mm rifle) and Kalantak (which never materialize).

At present as things are there is 2% chance for an Indian designed rifle(based on the track record of OFB).

This 2% chance will be represented by Ghatak assault rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm ,if they succeed in making one and it passes all the trials and requirements.(chances are bleak.)

98% chances are of a foreign design,from an Indian company with JV with a foreign company (high chance) or a foreign company alone .( with some amount of rifles being directly imported rest made by OFB after TOT.)

 

[Anirbann Datta]

request a post merge, as already running post existing. @Kunal Biswas Sir.

 

[pringles]

Let me clear your doubts (informed guess)

Indian army is looking for 7.62x51mm rifle.

The RFP says they are looking for a rifle which can support 7.62 *in addition to* other rounds, meaning, they are looking for interchangeable barrel type of a system where the trigger-receiver-butt assembly remains intact but the caliber of the rifle can be changed by changing the barrel. All in one kinda stuff.

For the kind of logistics that a 7.62 demands, it's really not worth it. On paper it seems like just 2mm of difference, but in practical terms, one can carry just half of what they carry if they switch from 5.56 to 7.62. This means recalculating everything from transportation to firing.

What's obscene that it takes more than a decade to take a decision. This is not acceptable. They wanted to change INSAS from the 90's, we're still waiting for that final decision. No need to reinvent the wheel, just pick a ready made gun, pay them royalty fee for their design and start mass producing it.

 

[ghost]

The RFP says they are looking for a rifle which can support 7.62 *in addition to* other rounds, meaning, they are looking for interchangeable barrel type of a system where the trigger-receiver-butt assembly remains intact but the caliber of the rifle can be changed by changing the barrel. All in one kinda stuff.

For the kind of logistics that a 7.62 demands, it's really not worth it. On paper it seems like just 2mm of difference, but in practical terms, one can carry just half of what they carry if they switch from 5.56 to 7.62. This means recalculating everything from transportation to firing.

What's obscene that it takes more than a decade to take a decision. This is not acceptable. They wanted to change INSAS from the 90's, we're still waiting for that final decision. No need to reinvent the wheel, just pick a ready made gun, pay them royalty fee for their design and start mass producing it.

Here is the RFI:https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/490/RFI Aslt Rif.pdf

It clearly state : Indian Army seeks a 7.62mm x 51mm rifle with lethality to achieve the objective of ‘Shoot to Kill’.

Regarding caliber,it will be pretty long and intense debate,each caliber has its pros and cons.I am fine with 7.62nato as a standard issue.

Its biggest advantage -long range and power.
Biggest con- weight.

Modern 7.62 nato rifles are lighter in weight,shorter in length with mild recoil.

Do remember that our army has already used this caliber in past.This time rifle will be lighter,shorter with milder recoil than previous version.

 

[sthf]

@ghost Considering that IA rejected Ghatak in it's extremely well established form (7.62×39), there is no way that IA will buy the imbecilic 7.62 NATO AK.

 

[ghost]

@ghost Considering that IA rejected Ghatak in it's extremely well established form (7.62×39), there is no way that IA will buy the imbecilic 7.62 NATO AK.

That's why 2% chance was given by me

Their best bet is to somehow convince Manohar Parrikar.

 

[aliyah]

new assault rifle.... comes with own tank.....but indian army wont get it this holi coz it will be in testing period for 3yrs after that army boss will suddenly change RFI

 

[rishivashista13]

new assault rifle.... comes with own tank.....but indian army wont get it this holi coz it will be in testing period for 3yrs after that army boss will suddenly change RFI

Surely , it will take some time .

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[Kunal Biswas]

This is for SF not for regulars, Its either going to be galil or SCAR in 7.62nato through gov to gov and will be available by April 2017 ..

The rumor spread by Mr Gupta in his blog is not a fact or any where near fact. In actual the Excalibur MK1C in hand of RR somewhere in Jammu at present with its scientific team ..

Let me clear your doubts (informed guess)

Indian army is looking for 7.62x51mm rifle.

0% chance for Excalibur (which is a 5.56x45mm rifle) and Kalantak (which never materialize).

At present as things are there is 2% chance for an Indian designed rifle(based on the track record of OFB).

This 2% chance will be represented by Ghatak assault rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm ,if they succeed in making one and it passes all the trials and requirements.(chances are bleak.)

98% chances are of a foreign design,from an Indian company with JV with a foreign company (high chance) or a foreign company alone .( with some amount of rifles being directly imported rest made by OFB after TOT.)

Here is the RFI:https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/490/RFI Aslt Rif.pdf

It clearly state : Indian Army seeks a 7.62mm x 51mm rifle with lethality to achieve the objective of ‘Shoot to Kill’.

Regarding caliber,it will be pretty long and intense debate,each caliber has its pros and cons.I am fine with 7.62nato as a standard issue.

Its biggest advantage -long range and power.
Biggest con- weight.

Modern 7.62 nato rifles are lighter in weight,shorter in length with mild recoil.

Do remember that our army has already used this caliber in past.This time rifle will be lighter,shorter with milder recoil than previous version.

 

[ghost]

This is for SF not for regulars, Its either going to be galil or SCAR in 7.62nato through gov to gov and will be available by April 2017 ..

The rumor spread by Mr Gupta in his blog is not a fact or any where near fact. In actual the Excalibur MK1C in hand of RR somewhere in Jammu at present with its scientific team ..

Purchase for SF is separate from the purchase which is going to be made for the regular Infantry.

A person who visited Aero India 2017 was told by the OFB guy over there that they are trying to enter the Indian army assault rifle competition with Ghatak rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm,even Guptaji has said the same thing earlier.So,I tend to believe what is being said.

Regarding excalibur,it might be acquired in small numbers, as a stop-gap till the new rifles make their way into the army ,which might take more than a year.

 

[rishivashista13]

Purchase for SF is separate from the purchase which is going to be made for the regular Infantry.

A person who visited Aero India 2017 was told by the OFB guy over there that they are trying to enter the Indian army assault rifle competition with Ghatak rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm,even Guptaji has said the same thing earlier.So,I tend to believe what is being said.

Regarding excalibur,it might be acquired in small numbers, as a stop-gap till the new rifles make their way into the army ,which might take more than a year.

And what about MCIWS ?

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[ghost]

And what about MCIWS ?

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As far as army is concerned ,it is a dead project.
However,it might see service in CAPF. If it is able to pass the trials and convince them,before they adopt another rifle.

 

[rishivashista13]

Once new assault rifles will be inducted , will it replace all 7.62×39 Kalashnikov's used in kashmir by 7.62 NATO ,
or it will only replace 5.56 INSAS ?

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